English-Only in WV?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-04-12 05:40pm

This is why you need to watch your legislature's last-minute bills. It didn't even appear in the local papers today.
Now, while 90% of WV state workers speak nothing but English, so Spanish Speakers are SOL, this is still a big WTF?

CNN.com wrote:W. Virginia lawmakers pass English bill

Tuesday, April 12, 2005 Posted: 8:40 AM EDT (1240 GMT)

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (AP) -- Two days after the end of the legislative session, state lawmakers are discovering something few were aware of: They voted to make English the official language of West Virginia.

The language amendment was quietly inserted into a bill addressing the number of members that cities can appoint to boards of parks and recreation. Among mundane details about record-keeping, the amendment adds the provision that "English shall be the official language of the State of West Virginia."

Senate Majority Whip Billy Wayne Bailey successfully offered that change to House Bill 2782 amid a flurry of bills moving back and forth between the House and Senate on Saturday, the last night of the 60-day legislative session.

"I just told the members that the amendment clarifies the way in which documents are produced," Bailey, a Democrat, said Monday.

House Majority Leader Rick Staton recommended that his chamber agree with the Senate's changes. But Staton, also a Democrat, said he was unaware of the substance of the amendment until asked about it by The Associated Press Monday evening.

Efforts to make English the state's official language have been introduced annually since the late 1990s. A group called U.S. English has championed the cause.

"I think it's wrong that's something like that was snuck into that bill in the last minute," said House Judiciary Chairman Jon Amores, who helped kill an earlier proposal to forbid any state or local agency from having to print documents in any language but English.

A spokeswoman for Gov. Joe Manchin could not immediately be reached for comment.

Andrew Schneider, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia, said English-only laws are based on the false premise that immigrants will not learn English without government coercion.

"And English-only laws do nothing constructive to increase English proficiency. They simply discriminate and punish those who have not yet learned English," Schneider said.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-04-12 05:43pm

tough tittys. How anyone can live in a country and not learn the language is beyond me. Fuck, i bought a book on French when i went to Montreal, just so i could be polite... It's ignorant and lazy not to do the same if you are going to live somewhere where your native language isn't the spoken language.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-12 05:59pm

i'd wholeheartedly support a nationwide passing of a similar law. if you want to be a citizen, and enjoy all the perks that come with living in the country, at least make an effort to become fluent in the language of the land. i know of a bunch of other countries that have similar laws, and fuck, it's only common courtesy. if i were to move to a country where english wasn't the native tongue for whatever reason, i'd definitely make an effort to learn their language.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-12 06:02pm

Give me your tired, your huddled masses, your people yearning to be free ....as long as they speak English.

I swear some people forget this country was built on the backs of people that couldn't speak or weren't fluent in English and they did pretty well for themselves. Their children certainly assimalated without much effort.

If we're going to pride ourselves as a country builty on immigration, one that everyone strives or dreams to come to then we have to take a step back and see some of the reasons why that is. Requiring people to speak the language isn't one of them.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-04-12 06:12pm

I don't see a problem with this. English is the language just about everybody uses, has a long history in the region, so why not make it official? The only people opposed would be those who want to replace the common language with something else. The meaning of the laws would apply to everybody regardless of spoken language.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-04-12 06:18pm

I have mixed feelings on the issue of making English the official language. On one hand it would be really nice to make sure that if people are going to live here they are going to bother learning the language, even if it's basic stuff. On the other hand, I see it as wrong to force someone to learn a language. They'll have to pick up the language if they plan on making it.

On a similar note, piggybacking bills really needs to go as it is pissing me off to no end.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2005-04-12 06:18pm

General Brock wrote:I don't see a problem with this. English is the language just about everybody uses, has a long history in the region, so why not make it official? The only people opposed would be those who want to replace the common language with something else. The meaning of the laws would apply to everybody regardless of spoken language.

Because there is nowhere in the Constitution that states that there shall be a national language.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-12 06:20pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
General Brock wrote:I don't see a problem with this. English is the language just about everybody uses, has a long history in the region, so why not make it official? The only people opposed would be those who want to replace the common language with something else. The meaning of the laws would apply to everybody regardless of spoken language.
Because there is nowhere in the Constitution that states that there shall be a national language.

there's nothing in the constitution stating it's unconstitutional either, iirc. if anything it would only help them make their way. those that genuinely want to make themselves productive citizens will make an attempt to learn the language so they can gain citizenship, as opposed to those who only want to come here to leach off the welfare system.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-04-12 06:40pm

Xenophobe3691 Wrote:

.... there is nowhere in the Constitution that states that there shall be a national language

Oh, OK.

Well, it was written and documented by the principles in English; would that qualify as a precident?

If the Founding Fathers left language out, it may have been an oversight. I mean, they would want Americans to be able to read the thing and know their rights.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-04-12 07:28pm

there's nothing in the constitution stating it's unconstitutional either, iirc.

Uh-uh. That's not how it's supposed to work. The Federal government is supposed to be limited to what the Constitution says it can do, not by what the Constitution says it can't do.

Of course, that's gone down the shitter by now, but I still take exception to the quoted argument.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2005-04-12 07:40pm

Saying "if you don't speak English, don't be here" really isn't a good solution. On the flip side, you don't want situations where immigrants all move to the same location and suddenly you have a Russian speaking district. A better idea would be to subsidize or even better provide English speaking community education programs. It wouldn't hurt your government to start taking an active role in improving conditions like these instead of telling people to fuck off all the time.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-04-12 08:19pm

The only way to fairly implement English-only laws (which I would prefer due to convenience) is to provide free English classes, that will teach you basic terms. Of course, most of the people who don't know English are probably in a financial situation that doesn't allow them to take time off for classes, so I don't know how that'd work out. And the cost needs to be considered as well. But I really don't see another way.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2005-04-12 11:06pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
there's nothing in the constitution stating it's unconstitutional either, iirc.
Uh-uh. That's not how it's supposed to work. The Federal government is supposed to be limited to what the Constitution says it can do, not by what the Constitution says it can't do.

Of course, that's gone down the shitter by now, but I still take exception to the quoted argument.

Having an official national language would help interstate commerce. Therefore, it's constitutional to have one. Amazing what you can do with the elastic clause ain't it?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-13 12:21am

So the constitution says that Florida cannot decide that their official language is Spanish?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-13 02:00am

Stravo wrote:Give me your tired, your huddled masses, your people yearning to be free ....as long as they speak English.

I swear some people forget this country was built on the backs of people that couldn't speak or weren't fluent in English and they did pretty well for themselves. Their children certainly assimalated without much effort.

If we're going to pride ourselves as a country builty on immigration, one that everyone strives or dreams to come to then we have to take a step back and see some of the reasons why that is. Requiring people to speak the language isn't one of them.

Yeah, like all those Italians, and Irish didn't save the USA's ass during the Civil War, and WWI.

come to think about it when it's counterpart was passed in California, It pissed me off to no end.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-13 03:46am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:
Stravo wrote:Give me your tired, your huddled masses, your people yearning to be free ....as long as they speak English.

I swear some people forget this country was built on the backs of people that couldn't speak or weren't fluent in English and they did pretty well for themselves. Their children certainly assimalated without much effort.

If we're going to pride ourselves as a country builty on immigration, one that everyone strives or dreams to come to then we have to take a step back and see some of the reasons why that is. Requiring people to speak the language isn't one of them.
Yeah, like all those Italians, and Irish didn't save the USA's ass during the Civil War, and WWI.

You got a point there, since it was the French who did that.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-13 04:06am

Actually I was refering to the immigrants, and during the civil war, it was the illiterate immigrants who did the hard fighting back then.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-04-13 06:21am

Nobody is saying that people can't speak their native tounge with friends and family. The law is really irrelevant, if you don't speak English in the US you will never rise above the ranks of janitor, maid or migrant worker.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2005-04-13 08:51am

I don't have a problem with the idea that the majority of people in the nation speak English and even practice a Christian, English-based culture; as I've ranted on before, what I detest is people who move to another nation and barricade themselves within a small bubble of culture, refusing to learn anything about or even follow the rules of their new home nation.

But despite the fact that some immigrants put forth little effort, local government should be more sensitive to its populace; when Ottawa recieved not just families but practically colonies of displaced Somalis the local government did absolutely nothing to integrate the populace or even make it easier for them to do so despite the fact that they knew about the tremendous population shift; consequently the Somalis became isolated in cheap suburb rental condo communities, packed ten or twenty to a three-bedroom house away from everyone else, and in extreme cases staking out the neighbourhood as 'theirs' and chasing away public services and citizens until the police had to roll in and make arrests.

Only within the past few years have Ottawa city officials recognized the problem and established community centres with Somali-oriented programs designed to help them gain access to English language training, understand government paperwork and local laws, and get them into skills assessment centres so that their foreign-earned degrees and diplomas can be re-evaluated with Canadian education standards so that they can get better jobs.

That NOS Guy · Post by **That NOS Guy** » 2005-04-13 09:29am

Haven't the Somalis been an assload of problems regardless of language issues?

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-04-13 09:40am

General Brock wrote:I don't see a problem with this. English is the language just about everybody uses, has a long history in the region, so why not make it official? The only people opposed would be those who want to replace the common language with something else. The meaning of the laws would apply to everybody regardless of spoken language.

The language of Shakesphere doesn't need a law to protect it.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-04-13 12:04pm

In order to gain citizenship, english language proficiency is required last time I checked, if it isnt it should be, and it is the same in every other damn country. The native language is required to gain said citizenship. Now it would only make sense that a person who is here legally would speak at least enough english to get by.

It SHOULDNT harm anyone if for example, ballots are written in english only, because anyone who can vote SHOULD speak english anyway.
As for other documents, like welfare and other such things, well frankly a person who is here illegally should gain NONE of the protections the government offers, save for those that are spelled out in the constitution as inviolate(IE the bill of rights) They can be here, so long as they dont get caught, but they shouldnt expect the government to help them with shit, save to prevent their bodies from stinking up the deserts(IE, we should have at least water out in the middle of the desert)

Jew · Post by **Jew** » 2005-04-13 12:23pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:It SHOULDNT harm anyone if for example, ballots are written in english only, because anyone who can vote SHOULD speak english anyway.

Any citizen who is informed and understands the issues should vote. It would be nice if everyone knew English, but discrimination against someone for not knowing a particular language is ethically and morally wrong.

That doesn't mean non-English speakers should demand government documents in their own language. The government exists to serve the people but reality dictates that it must do so in a cost-effective manner. Thus only the major languages are used. For example, in Texas most government documents are printed in English and Spanish. It's not cost-effective to print everything in Korean as well. On the other hand, it was deemed important to print the 2000 census in six languages, including Korean.

It just comes down to this: the government should serve everyone. If a large percentage of the public speaks a language other than English then it is realistic to make an effort to serve them--keeping in mind that English is currently the dominant language in the US and globally.

We don't need official languages in America. This is a nation founded on the principles of freedom and liberty, so let us allow languages to compete freely without government intervention. Let the free market serve its purpose.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-04-13 12:27pm

You misunderstand me, english language proficiency is required for citizenship, not citizenship, no voting, hence no english, no voting.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/

Welcome to the naturalization home page. Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is conferred upon a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). The general requirements for administrative naturalization include:

a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.

Emphasis mine.

Jew · Post by **Jew** » 2005-04-13 01:24pm

Ah, yes, I see now. That's a valid point. On the other hand any person born on US soil is a citizen from birth. No English profiency required.