The "Infallable Mr Spock"

[Lord Poe]

In "That Which Survives" a defense program named Losira throws the Enterprise 990.7 light years (if we believe Spock) from her planet, then sabotages the engines of the Enterprise. This sends the ship hurtling through space at high warp, and out of control.

Spock estimates that the crew has only "14.87 minutes" left before the ship explodes. Scotty works madly trying to remedy the problem by working on the magnetic containment field holding the antimatter. As Scott begins repairs, Spock tells him he has "8 minutes, 41 seconds" left.

Soon the countdown to the imminent destruction of the Enterprise comes and goes-- and nothing happens. If Spock is so precise with his calculations, why was Scott able to work for at least ten seconds after Spock said the ship would explode? Spock spends the entire episode chiding the other officers on their inability to be precise.

In "Turnabout Intruder", Spock claims that complete entity transfer has never been accomplished with complete success anywhere in the galaxy. However, Spock seems to be mistaken. He was not only present during the complete energy transfer of Sargon, Thalassa, and Henoch in "Return To Tomorrow", he actively participated, being the host body to Henoch!

[John Clark]

Hmm, nitpicking... I'm being flamed for exactly this sort of thing.

Will we see flames of this poor lad as well?

[Lord Poe]

Hmm, nitpicking...

Nope, proof that Spock isn't infallable.

I'm being flamed for exactly this sort of thing.

Nope you're beeing flamed for being an asshole, far as I can see.

[Master of Ossus]

It's possible that Spock was giving him a countdown for the earliest time at which the ship might explode. In other words, he was playing it safe.

Also, Spock was estimating, by your own admission.

I do not think that Spock is infallible in the least. He is struggling with balancing his human and Vulcan sides, and he is having difficulties remaining free from emotions. I do NOT think that this is a particularly glaring error that Spock made.

[DarkStar]

Soon the countdown to the imminent destruction of the Enterprise comes and goes-- and nothing happens. If Spock is so precise with his calculations, why was Scott able to work for at least ten seconds after Spock said the ship would explode? Spock spends the entire episode chiding the other officers on their inability to be precise.

Well gee Darth Mullet, maybe you answer your own question by pointing out the fact that Scotty was working on the problem. Did it occur to you that is repair attempts (which basically involved sticking a little thingy in a conduit) might have been enough to produce the necessary delay?

In "Turnabout Intruder", Spock claims that complete entity transfer has never been accomplished with complete success anywhere in the galaxy. However, Spock seems to be mistaken. He was not only present during the complete energy transfer of Sargon, Thalassa, and Henoch in "Return To Tomorrow", he actively participated, being the host body to Henoch!

You call that complete success? Sargon and friends were burning up the host bodies, requiring an influx of drugs, and they _still_ couldn't stay in the hosts for long.

[Lord Poe]

Well gee Darth Mullet,

You'll have to excuse my new bitch, DarkFuckface. Balding bastards like him says anyone with long hair has a "mullet".

maybe you answer your own question by pointing out the fact that Scotty was working on the problem. Did it occur to you that is repair attempts (which basically involved sticking a little thingy in a conduit) might have been enough to produce the necessary delay?

That wasn't the case, Fuckface, because the countdown was not interrupted by adding time, thereby signalling Scotty was holding off the countdown. Also, the ship didn't begin to respond to the effects of his work until 12 seconds AFTER Spock said the ship would explode.

In "Turnabout Intruder", Spock claims that complete entity transfer has never been accomplished with complete success anywhere in the galaxy. However, Spock seems to be mistaken. He was not only present during the complete energy transfer of Sargon, Thalassa, and Henoch in "Return To Tomorrow", he actively participated, being the host body to Henoch!

You call that complete success? Sargon and friends were burning up the host bodies, requiring an influx of drugs, and they _still_ couldn't stay in the hosts for long.

It was JUST as much a success as Janice Lester's attempt. More than once, Kirk's entity attempted to leave Lester's body. And Spock was talking about the TRANSFER itself. Fuckface.

[Howedar]

Well gee Darth Mullet,

You'll have to excuse my new bitch, DarkFuckface. Balding bastards like him says anyone with long hair has a "mullet".

Sorry Wayne, but it was kinda amusing. Not that this lends his "argument" any validity whatsoever.

[Howedar]

(damn lack of edit button) Not that this lends his "argument" any validity whatsoever.




Fixed your post. -GAT

[Darth Wong]

Perhaps Lord Poe should have prefaced it by pointing out that a lot of newsgroup Trekkies are fond of micro-analyzing Spock's data (hell, they do it with all the characters' dialogue) and evading the inevitable criticism by claiming that Spock's dialogue is basically equivalent to scientific data.

Yes, the whole idea is absurd and shouldn't even warrant refuting, but I have seen some Trekkies employ it, hence Lord Poe's response. Some of them even fall for that "Vulcans never lie" crap, as if they never watched ST6.

[DarkStar]

Some of them even fall for that "Vulcans never lie" crap, as if they never watched ST6.

Or T'Pol, for that matter. Geez. If you just count dishonesty (and not evil motivation), she makes Valeris look like a Vulcan girl scout.

[DarkStar]

Well gee Darth Mullet,

You'll have to excuse my new bitch, DarkFuckface. Balding bastards like him says anyone with long hair has a "mullet".

Um, dude. Seriously. That's a major mullet you're sporting. You look like you should be in a sleeveless t-shirt and driving a beat up Camaro from the 80's.

maybe you answer your own question by pointing out the fact that Scotty was working on the problem. Did it occur to you that is repair attempts (which basically involved sticking a little thingy in a conduit) might have been enough to produce the necessary delay?

That wasn't the case, Fuckface, because the countdown was not interrupted by adding time, thereby signalling Scotty was holding off the countdown. Also, the ship didn't begin to respond to the effects of his work until 12 seconds AFTER Spock said the ship would explode.

Spock did not add time to the countdown because his countdown was based on the little handheld unit he was holding. While it could have been connected to the computer and adjusted for time, it is more likely (especially given the stupid nitpick you're making) that it was simply counting down without adjustment for Scotty's actions.

You call that complete success? Sargon and friends were burning up the host bodies, requiring an influx of drugs, and they _still_ couldn't stay in the hosts for long.

It was JUST as much a success as Janice Lester's attempt. More than once, Kirk's entity attempted to leave Lester's body. And Spock was talking about the TRANSFER itself. Fuckface.

The Sargon transfers were NOT a success. They required massive amounts of upkeep, and could not be maintained indefinitely even with that upkeep.

Further, you might wish to account for the fact that the Sargon transfers were performed by mind and not technology, which (not having the ep) may have been what Spock was discussing.

[Admiral Valdemar]

In "That Which Survives"... *SNIP*

Nice work, Poe. But really, why did you bother? We all know Spock is as infalliable as Data. Still, nice to see you on this board now.

[Doomriser]

Perhaps Lord Poe should have prefaced it by pointing out that a lot of newsgroup Trekkies are fond of micro-analyzing Spock's data (hell, they do it with all the characters' dialogue) and evading the inevitable criticism by claiming that Spock's dialogue is basically equivalent to scientific data.

Yes, the whole idea is absurd and shouldn't even warrant refuting, but I have seen some Trekkies employ it, hence Lord Poe's response. Some of them even fall for that "Vulcans never lie" crap, as if they never watched ST6.

Ironically, it is quite logical for Vulcans to promote this reputation of not lying, as it gives them an advantage in diplomacy and negotiations. Their word is taken at face value and no-one suspects their darker motives.

[John Clark]

Hmm, nitpicking...

Nope, proof that Spock isn't infallable.

I'm being flamed for exactly this sort of thing.

Nope you're being flamed for being an asshole, far as I can see.

Poe, you scurvy faggot, I'm proving that Wong is not infallible and getting flamed. Give me your address, I'd like to send you a Size 9 leather enema.

[Master of Ossus]

Ironically, it is quite logical for Vulcans to promote this reputation of not lying, as it gives them an advantage in diplomacy and negotiations. Their word is taken at face value and no-one suspects their darker motives.

In The Great Gatsby (GREAT book, nearly as good as LotF), there is one character who lives in high society and plays golf (Jordan). No one ever suspects anyone of cheating at that level, so she gets away with it just because no one would ever accuse her. The same thing is going on with Vulcans. If I say I never lie, and you believe me, then I would be able to get away with lying more often!

[Master of Ossus]

Reveal your true identities, ASU cowards, and you're being flamed for being an asshole! No one ever said that Wong was infallible. Just because he is human does not prevent him from being right. Clearly you learn as much at ASU as its reputation would indicate, as you clearly do not understand that. On the other hand, Trekkies have claimed in the past that because Vulcans never lie, and because Spock is Vulcan, he is never wrong. This is simply not true. THAT is why this thread is relevent and why your repeated attempts to discredit Wong are failing and resulting in flaming.

Incidentally, I DID think that your comments about Mr. Poe and his mullet were funny, though I did not think that that gave your argument credibility it otherwise would have lacked.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Poe, you scurvy faggot, I'm proving that Wong is not infallible and getting flamed. Give me your address, I'd like to send you a Size 9 leather enema.

Scurvy faggot! Ooh, Poe that must hurt!


We know he's not infallible!

[John Clark]

Thrawn... Spock is supposedly only half human. Which I guess means he's entitled to lie half the time. Or maybe he's only half as smart as a full Vulcan. Or maybe only one of his ears is actually pointy. Fucked if I care.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Thrawn... Spock is supposedly only half human. Which I guess means he's entitled to lie half the time. Or maybe he's only half as smart as a full Vulcan. Or maybe only one of his ears is actually pointy. Fucked if I care.

Wow, a DOUBLE red herring. Not only is this totally irelevant to the topic (Spock being perfect or wrong sometimes) but irelevant to my post as I was talking about your stupid "you all think Wong is perfect" argument!


And of course your wrong anyways. ST6. "I do not remember"

[Howedar]

No, just fucked, you ASU coward.

[John Clark]

Fuck you, Nazi.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Stop mindless flaming NOW.

[Lord Poe]

Sorry Wayne, but it was kinda amusing. Not that this lends his "argument" any validity whatsoever.

Hmm. Too bad I can't change my name!

[Lord Poe]

Um, dude. Seriously. That's a major mullet you're sporting.

Mullets are usually dudes with short hair on the top and sides, with long stringy hair in the back that doesn't go any wider than their neck. I have Wookiee hair. BaldStar.

You look like you should be in a sleeveless t-shirt and driving a beat up Camaro from the 80's.

Far be it from me to delate a fantasy, but I've never worn wife-beater Guido specials, and wouldn't spit on a POS Camaro.

[quoteThat wasn't the case, Fuckface, because the countdown was not interrupted by adding time, thereby signalling Scotty was holding off the countdown. Also, the ship didn't begin to respond to the effects of his work until 12 seconds AFTER Spock said the ship would explode.[/quote]

Spock did not add time to the countdown because his countdown was based on the little handheld unit he was holding.

No it wasn't For one thing, Spock already set the countdown on the helm board, and the lieutenant was counting down Spoc's estimate. The estimate was based on how much time the ship could withstand the speeds it was going before blowing up. Since it witstood that speed at least 10 seconds longer than Spock's best estimate, that means Spock is, once again, wrong.

And BTW, that thing Spock is holding is the controller McCoy used to walk the brainless Spock around in "Spock's Brain." Kind of fitting he'd need to adjust it.

The Sargon transfers were NOT a success.

Yes they were. It was a complete entity transfer successfully done. Spock is once again, wrong.

[Lord Poe]

Poe, you scurvy faggot,

Scurvy?

I'm proving that Wong is not infallible and getting flamed.

Then that's your problem. No one's ever claimed Wong was infallable.

Give me your address, I'd like to send you a Size 9 leather enema.

Not into fetish porn.