What would YOU do as leader of an Occupied Federation?

[Jett Tainer]

Here is the story.

During the Galactic Civil War, a sizable wormhole between the SW and MW galaxy was found by the Rebels.

However, before the Rebels were able to setup any outposts or infrastructure, the imperials found a wormhole, and proceeded to stomp and rollover every major civilization in the Milky Way. They did this purely to deny it from the Rebels.

You don't know anything beyond the Alpha Quadrant however, because you are President-Pro-Tempore of the UFP.
The President surrendered and was taken away, never to be seen again.

The Imperials left you in power, because they believe you are, mostly harmless, having been found under a desk.
Also, you gather, that they have bigger fish to fry, and are more concerned with preventing their enemy (the Rebels) from using the MW as a resource.

Also
1. Lets assume the IMPs applied BDZ to the unstable idiots on Kronos as an example. I know I would.
2. The Cardasians, were so weak ,the empire said "Boo" and the regime collapsed. You may send peacekeepers to Cardasia if you want, the romulans are already there.
3. The Borg are being summarilly exterminated. Borg planets are BZDed on sight, and the Executor (al la Wong) is conducting strafing runs on UnimatrixWTF01, and soon it will be a non entity.
4. UFP government was allowed to survive as Vichi entity. You may take control of the remants of the other civilizations in the name of the Empire, but the Empire will not supply you with technology. You must also, smile and bendover for the emporer.
6. The romulans are in the same situation as the federation, and you are not allowed to fight each other. (Also trek X never happened, too much stupidity).
7. All major capital ships must be fitted with controls that allow the Empire to shut them down.
8. The Imps have a token occupation force at all times, but have stated they can summon forces anywhere in the MW within mere hours.
9. There is a Garrison of Clone troopers on every capital world.
10. The Baku were wiped out for being smug. Although Palpatine did enjoy their racism. He decided the Sona will be allowed to harvest the metaphasic technobabbles. However, most of the magic particles are being sent to corascant. as Vichi President, you can have some.
11. Earth seems to have a complete fossil record of human evolution. This intrigues some SW scholars.
12. Imperials find wormholes cute, and are experimenting on the bajoran wormhole.

Your motivations:
1. As Vice president of the federation, you truly believe you had a shot at utopia before the IMPS attacked. You do not want to be under IMP rule.
2. You would like to know more about the Rebels, but have no way knowing who they are, or even where the wormholes are.
3. You are concerned about the welfare of your people, AND their way of life.
4. The Empire was an outside context problem, your world(s) were flipped upside down. All old alliances and enemies are open to renegotiation.
5. If you Stir up to much crap, the IMPs will BZD Earth as an example.


Your Assets.
1. You still have many of your capital ships, though most are space debries.
2. You possess transporter technology. The imperials regard it as a curiosity, but for some reason, possibly cultural, are grossed out by it, and only tollerate it for now.
3. The IMPs do not know about the Genesis device.
4. The IMPs do not like replicator technology and hate it because of economic philosophy. However, they will allow it for now.
5. Your sensor technology is still fantastic, if only because IMP ships don't need it, having turned their wild galaxy into a take subburb millenia ago.
6. You know how your technology actually works. Most IMP technology has been refined over the millenia. All of it has been commoditized to death. Why design a new engine when you have something 12,00 years old that works?

Fed military
1. All the stupid Feds have been killed off. No more point blank range fights.
2. Uniforms now have pockets.
3. The XO and Captain NEVER leave on an away mission.
4. Stray Borg encountered are dispatched with bullets.
5. Phaser rifles have been fitted with scopes to shoot things far away.
6. Command centers have been fitted with fuses, bridge consoles no longer explode.
7. The IMPS can still outgun and outrun Fed ships.

What would you do?

[Batman]

1. I don't HAVE the Genesis device, unlike most of the one-shot wonders of TNG infamy it truly IS lost technology. Not that I see why this is relevant. The ability to turn a nebula into an inherently unstable planet doesn't seem particularly useful to me.
2. I do as I'm told because there's jack shit I can do about the Imperial Occupation, and as long as I'm president, I at least presumably have some privileges.

[Jett Tainer]

Genesis device stricken from record. OK.

Still. Lets assume for sake of argument, that you don't want to just roll over and die. http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/posting.ph ... 2&t=129299#
The fact is, that sometimes people do resist, even against hopeless odds.

[The Romulan Republic]

I bolt. I round up every ship I can and I get out. The Empire can put a new pawn in to play at being Palpatine's bitch.

Obviously I'm fucked if I try a strait-up fight. In this senario the Feds have, not suprisingly, already had their asses soundly kicked. And honestly, how many people will support an insurrection considering the price and the fact that the Federation are probably the main power under the Empire, who are also no doubt earning goodwill by removing the Borg? If the Imperial forces are still dependent on shipments from their home galaxy (after all the OP says the Milky Way is not a priority) I could launch an all-out hit on the wormhole to try to collapse it, but if it fails their will be massive retribution and in any case the Empire may have established self-sufficient bases.

If that is the case, I make a bolt for some remote, dangerous region like the Badlands and use assymetrical warfare while I try to contact the Rebels. In this sennario, my best bet is to support the Rebels and hope they'll help the Federation rebuild once the Empire falls. Its risky, but I stand to gain a lot from this if I win, and as long as I don't do anything too blatant, the Empire shouldn't carry out that BDZ. Once the Emperor dies its likely that either the Empire will withdraw or some warlord will set up his personal domain in Federation Space, at which point I hopefully won't have to worry about BDZ retaliation any more.

Once I set up my network of bases (highly decentralized of course), I begin recruiting individuals with experience in assymetrical warfare, such as Bajoran freedom fighters and ex-Marquis. I'm betting on my superior sensors and knowledge of the terrain, as well as the former Marquis's knowledge of areas like the Badlands to evade the Imperial forces. I try to steal use plants in the Federation government (my former supporters as President, hopefully), to steal Imperial secrets. Once I make contact with the Rebels, I sell this information to them, along with any information on the new Galaxy in general. I may also exchange troops if possible, the Rebels getting more men while I get a chance to train my men in using Imperial tech. The problem will be getting my agents and personnel through the wormhole, and this probably depends entirely on weather the Empire can detect my cloaking devices (I'll rob a Romulan base if I have to). I know the Empire has those Crystal Grav Traps or whatever their called, but they seem to be pretty damn rare, and the OP says the Trek invasion is not a highest priority matter.

So basically I run, then conduct assymetrical warfare while I search for the Rebels.

Note: this sennario probably assumes that I would have some knowledge of affairs in the Star Wars Galaxy, including the centralized nature of the Imperial government.

[Swindle1984]

1) I can't fight the Empire, so I do my best to keep them satisfied enough that they don't interfere with the daily affairs of the Federation.

2) As a corollary to the above, I militarize the Federation heavily. An actual marine corps will be established with intelligently-designed weapons, body armor, etc. and new capital ships will be redesigned to be OSHA compliant. If I can deal with any riots, revolts, etc. without them creating enough trouble to stir up the Empire, so much the better. This also gives me a force I can put up at least token resistance with if someone pisses off the Empire enough to BDZ Earth or other Federation planets. If possible, I'll have the remote shut-down switch the Empire installed in every ship ready to bypass if need be.

3) Keep people as content as possible. If the Empire is allowing us to be semi-autonomous, then I'm going to run the Federation accordingly.

4) I am NOT getting involved with the Cardassians, Romulans, or Klingons. You KNOW they're going to try something stupid sooner or later, so why bring the Empire's wrath down on you too?

[The Romulan Republic]

As far as my resistance forces, I'm going to rely heavily on warp capable fighters (outfitted with cloaks when possible). Basically, I'm going to imitate Rebel tactics, making up for a lack of heavy warships and shear numbers with a more skillful and better-equipped fighter corps. I will probably have a few big ships from the old Federation, but they will act strictly as mobile bases, transports, hospital ships, etc. They will not enter combat except perhaps via long range torpedo bombardment (I don't expect to hurt their big ships, but maybe cover a retreat from pursuing fighters or hit an outpost or patrol on an unshielded world). The Empire can one-shot anything I have or can realistically build, so deploying big, easy to hit ships is a waste of lives and money.

My typical design (presuming this is post-Voyager) would be based on the Delta Flyer, a tough, warp-capable fighter capable of deploying torpedos and surviving short engagements with the Borg. I might also use a smaller, more manuverable design for evading the big Imperial guns close-in, though I want it to be big enough to go to warp without needing a big vulnerable carrier. Great durability doesn't matter, only low cost, high manuverabillity, and warp plus torpedo launch capabilities. Note that given the Delta Flyer example, such ships can be built by a single small cruiser cut off from the Federation. This strikes me as the best design for assymetrical warfare.

Of course I also want to upgrade my vessels. I don't have the power generation capabilities to support Star Wars shields and turbolasers on my vessels, but could I modify the torpedo tubes to fire proton torpedos or seismic charges? What about Star Wars armor (only on the big ships so as not to reduce manuverabillity)? I also plan to equip my vessels with cloaks (stolen from those dirty Romulan collaborators if nessissary ), and I will try to salvage transwarp tech from any Borg wreaks. (If the Borg lose Unimatrix One, will their ships just shut down?) Voyager was able to use Borg transwarp coils for a short time, and the Federation's got to figure out how to use this tech properly someday.

And yes, I know that I'd probably lose horribly. I'm no soldier, and the enemy has some obscene advantages. But better to die fighting bravely than end up being Palpatine's bitch while he commits genocides and drains the life from his slaves as per Dark Empire. Worse, according to the EU Palpatine is seeking immortality by transferring to new clone bodies; I can't wait for him to die like an ordinary despot. So I fight, and hope the Rebels win out like they did in the official timeline.

[Ghost Rider]

Only requires one bit that will determine whether I lock this or not.

Do I or do I not have SW tech?

[The Romulan Republic]

Only requires one bit that will determine whether I lock this or not.

Do I or do I not have SW tech?

Well based on the OP, it looks like the Empire hasn't given you any, but it should be possible to get hold of some through the Rebels or something. I think that if the Empire is integrating the Federation into their territory as a puppet state, they probably won't be able to completely keep their tech out of the local's hands. This is the assumption I'm basing my response on, anyway.

[Ghost Rider]

Only requires one bit that will determine whether I lock this or not.

Do I or do I not have SW tech?

Well based on the OP, it looks like the Empire hasn't given you any, but it should be possible to get hold of some through the Rebels or something. I think that if the Empire is integrating the Federation into their territory as a puppet state, they probably won't be able to completely keep their tech out of the local's hands. This is the assumption I'm basing my response on, anyway.

Then I'll wait until he responds because yours makes me want to lock and laugh. Think about it. What would I be able to trade to the Alliance to have to give me a portion of their very limited Starfleet to harass the Empire on a very mminimal level and AFTER they expend even more resources to train my men to work said technology beyond "Point and shoot.".

And just because I can access technology means nothing. People around this planet can access a variety of technology but they don't compare to the cutting edge. Just because I could buy a second hand hyperdrive means shit when they send a fleet to core out Earth like a gourd.

[The Romulan Republic]

Then I'll wait until he responds because yours makes me want to lock and laugh. Think about it. What would I be able to trade to the Alliance to have to give me a portion of their very limited Starfleet to harass the Empire on a very mminimal level and AFTER they expend even more resources to train my men to work said technology beyond "Point and shoot.".

I'll admit I didn't put forward my best argument their, so I'll try to improve on it.

I can think of two things to trade: knowledge and troops. The first is by far the more important and likely to succeed. If the Rebels want to take the fight to the Empire in this new galaxy, they will need navigational data. The Milky Way in Star Trek is full of anomalies that could probably screw up Hyperspace travel, and unlike the Empire, the Rebels can't simply spam probe droids. I would sell them navigational data (plus any information I could steal from the Empire).

[Singular Intellect]

Even if one magically equipped the entire intact Federation with every modern piece of Star Wars technology, they're only facing, what? A ten million to one numerical disadvantage? Perhaps I'm being overly generous, for the Federation.

This is like pitting a million modern troops against ten spear wielding savages, and then laughingly suggesting equipping those ten with modern weaponry and excellent training changes the outcome in any significant way.

The only practical answer here is "Bend over for Palpatine whether you like it or not, whatever you do doesn't matter much."

[Lord Revan]

The Milky Way in Star Trek is full of anomalies that could probably screw up Hyperspace travel

don't most anomalies screw up trek ships due their over reliance on sub space tech?

If so this wouldn't effect hyperdrive that (that's not subspace based).

tbh nothing points out that Milky Way is inherently so dangerous that general nav data (probably among the easiest things of the rebels to steal themselves) would be that good a bargaining tool.

as for the OP I'd try to make certain that the Empire interphared as little as possible, while militarizing the federation under pretext of independent security forces and/or militias (why risk the wrath of the emperor by trying to arm yourself covertly, if you can pull it of under his wrinkled nose) while pretending to be loyal servant of the empire (thus perhaps gaining access to SW tech (if probably not top edge)), Federation being mostly human or near-human I got time.

only once I'm certain (within reasonble dout) that any resistance against the empire wouldn't end as embrashingly short footnote in some history book, I'd start doing anything active against them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Even if one magically equipped the entire intact Federation with every modern piece of Star Wars technology, they're only facing, what? A ten million to one numerical disadvantage? Perhaps I'm being overly generous, for the Federation.

This is like pitting a million modern troops against ten spear wielding savages, and then laughingly suggesting equipping those ten with modern weaponry and excellent training changes the outcome in any significant way.

The only practical answer here is "Bend over for Palpatine whether you like it or not, whatever you do doesn't matter much."

Well I never claimed the Federation could win, or even make much of a difference. My plan is to lay low and conduct a low-level resistance until the Rebels win, and hope they're nice enough to help me rebuild. My dealing with the Rebels is not to beat the Empire, but to help me survive and hopefully make me an alley worth helping out after the war.

And I freely admitted that even then its a plan that's likely to fail. I just prefer a desperate battle to being an immortal despot's bitch.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Milky Way in Star Trek is full of anomalies that could probably screw up Hyperspace travel

don't most anomalies screw up trek ships due their over reliance on sub space tech?

Certainly that's the case with a lot of them. However, that doesn't nessissarily invalidate my plan.

If so this wouldn't effect hyperdrive that (that's not subspace based).

If these anomalies have any substantial gravitational pull they will. That includes any black holes or similar phenomina. Their's one from season 1. Voyager off the top of my head, and I'm sure their are others as well. And none of this alters the simple fact that its a huge area of uncharted space full of more conventional Hyperspace hazards like stars and planets. Yes, Star Wars militaries have ways of charting that space, but how long did it take them to chart their whole galaxy, and how long will it take the Rebels with their limited resources and need to keep a low profile? If they can get some of this information from me for a reasonable price, it will save them time, effort, and likely equipment and lives.

tbh nothing points out that Milky Way is inherently so dangerous that general nav data (probably among the easiest things of the rebels to steal themselves) would be that good a bargaining tool.

Its certainly more dangerous than the Star Wars galaxy. Hell they'll be stumbling over subspace anomalies when they drop out of Hyperspace in random systems. How many times have we heard of bizzare anomalies like these in the Star Wars galaxy, or even black holes outside the Maw Cluster? In any case, its a huge region of uncharted space, and there are inherent risks involved here. The Empire can chart it quickly, and afford any losses. The Rebels can't. Yes, they can steal it, but they can still probably get it faster, easier, and cheaper if I give it to them.

[Stark]

Can I cooperate with the Imperials to ensure no enmity is generated, requiring reprisals? There's no point beyond conservatism to return to Federation rule; indeed the OP suggests that almost nothing has changed for Federation citizens.

I realise the OP is a pile of emotional reactionary nonsense, but there's really no profit in forcing the Empire to destroy entire worlds by engaging in fruitless terrorism. Nationalistic nonsense aside, what motivation is there for any resistance? Forced labour, disappearances, hideous experiments? Or is it just reactionary terrorism motivated by pride? It'd take decades or hundreds of years for the Federation to be any threat to the Empire, and by then it'd probably be entirely culturally assimilated outside of lunatic hardliner psychopaths.

[Ghost Rider]

So far, the only thing is basically bend over and kiss Palpatine's ass and hope if the Alliance wins, some local Moff is generous enough to only merely make you his cum guzzling fuck hole.

Knowledge? Right, because probe droids can't do it cheaper, better, and shit tons faster. So again, why? Especially given the lack of knowledge the Federation have possessed after 80 fucking years of exploration.

Troops? Sorry, the Empire controls enough that a mere 150 worlds, and fuck let's be generous...150 star systems is a drop in the bucket. Especially given the technological differences. Fuck if the Rebels are going want a bunch of backwater bodies wasting their valuable tech as well.

So yeah, I'm locking because really this is another of the "Empire versus Federation...BUT what do YOU DO?!!!!". You sit and take it like a $2 bitch in a whorehouse.

Just as a side note. Really the debate is dead because no one has presented credible objective notes about the Federation doing anything more then being a Sunday stroll for a bunch of frat boys riding a Star Destroyer. The difference is too fucking huge to overcome and unless it comes to writer's fiat, they die, horribly.