I was referring to TV Sci-fi as a whole, of course.The Romulan Republic wrote:So I'm not sure its really fair to just blame such a brain bug on TV Trek (maybe TV sci-fi as a whole).
Trekkie Wall o' Text
Moderator: Vympel
Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
unsigned
Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Assuming that a Trek ship with Red Matter could get to Coruscant, there is one way that a Red matter attack could work.
This assumes
#1 - That the black holes created by Red Matter are 'long term'. Meaning they last a few days or more.
#2 - The Empire isn't aware of Red Matter (maybe it's hypermatter, who knows), hasn't seen the 'Black hole' before, and doesn't know how to deal with it.
The only way to get around Coruscant's defenses is to avoid them entirely. So, figure out Coruscant's orbital data, and activate the Red Matter ahead of Coruscant. Effectively, Coruscant will orbit into the black hole.
Sure, they'll be lots of time for an evacuation of the planet (depending on how far out the Red Matter is activated), but it's got a higher change of working then 'pissy little Trek ship attempts to destroy one of the most heavily defended planets in the Star Wars galaxy'
Of course, using the Red Matter to neutralize Coruscant's sun is also an option, but it leaves Coruscant intact.
This assumes
#1 - That the black holes created by Red Matter are 'long term'. Meaning they last a few days or more.
#2 - The Empire isn't aware of Red Matter (maybe it's hypermatter, who knows), hasn't seen the 'Black hole' before, and doesn't know how to deal with it.
The only way to get around Coruscant's defenses is to avoid them entirely. So, figure out Coruscant's orbital data, and activate the Red Matter ahead of Coruscant. Effectively, Coruscant will orbit into the black hole.
Sure, they'll be lots of time for an evacuation of the planet (depending on how far out the Red Matter is activated), but it's got a higher change of working then 'pissy little Trek ship attempts to destroy one of the most heavily defended planets in the Star Wars galaxy'
Of course, using the Red Matter to neutralize Coruscant's sun is also an option, but it leaves Coruscant intact.
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Jarek Densaku
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
OK. I'll be brief......I'ld like to point this part.......
Besides. The Abrams movie is fucking far away from true science.
Ah? Since when god-like entities (Q, The Prophets, etc....), time travels et giant space montsters are true science? And i don't even mention all these fantasy anomalies (Omega molecule anyone?)Star Trek is based off of true science. Star Wars is based off of fantasy/never-going-to-happen movie science. Fight your losing battle. You have been owned.
Besides. The Abrams movie is fucking far away from true science.
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In 2009 it's making placements for Nokia.
Seems like future generations of scientists will look somewhere else for inspiration."
In 2009 it's making placements for Nokia.
Seems like future generations of scientists will look somewhere else for inspiration."
Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
To people wondering if a Trek ship could get into Coruscant by posing as a merchant freighter, consider this:
They need to figure out the procedures and regulations for this traffic. They need to do that well enough not to draw any attention to themselves. They'd need navigational charts, computers that could interface with traffic control computers, be able to understand slang, know the local frequencies etc.
How are they going to get this intel? Where will they acquire the books detailing stuff about the environment around Coruscant? If they go right in and just try to blaze through it, they will attract attention, and this means they're dead. Or they'll collide with a 10 gigaton superfreighter carrying fried chicken to Corcuscant, because they didn't know the spacelane they were using was reserved for heavy traffic.
They need to figure out the procedures and regulations for this traffic. They need to do that well enough not to draw any attention to themselves. They'd need navigational charts, computers that could interface with traffic control computers, be able to understand slang, know the local frequencies etc.
How are they going to get this intel? Where will they acquire the books detailing stuff about the environment around Coruscant? If they go right in and just try to blaze through it, they will attract attention, and this means they're dead. Or they'll collide with a 10 gigaton superfreighter carrying fried chicken to Corcuscant, because they didn't know the spacelane they were using was reserved for heavy traffic.
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Godlike beings are the least problem with ST, while they are not scientific they are neither unscientific. Current day science has nothing to say about very advanced things or even "supernatural" stuff (until it happens a statistically large occasions, because from that point they are a natural phenomena which deserves scientific explanation). The bad thing they care jack shit about classical, relativistic and quantum mechanics which should work if one has the correct conditions.Jarek Densaku wrote:OK. I'll be brief......I'ld like to point this part.......Ah? Since when god-like entities (Q, The Prophets, etc....), time travels et giant space montsters are true science? And i don't even mention all these fantasy anomalies (Omega molecule anyone?)Star Trek is based off of true science. Star Wars is based off of fantasy/never-going-to-happen movie science. Fight your losing battle. You have been owned.
Besides. The Abrams movie is fucking far away from true science.
Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
The main problem with Trek-science it is that it dresses as science, but is not scientific at all.bz249 wrote: Godlike beings are the least problem with ST, while they are not scientific they are neither unscientific. Current day science has nothing to say about very advanced things or even "supernatural" stuff (until it happens a statistically large occasions, because from that point they are a natural phenomena which deserves scientific explanation). The bad thing they care jack shit about classical, relativistic and quantum mechanics which should work if one has the correct conditions.
Oh, and science can, per definition, make no comment on the supernatural. Of course, this gets scetchy if you can actually observe it - if it is part of the natural(=observable) universe, it is not supernatural anymore, is it?
How often these things occur does not really matter.
Oh, and the Defiant (or any other Trekship) being taken out by colliding with a superfreighter is kinda funny, don't you think?
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"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick
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Akkleptos
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Considering the readings and estimates on firepower (and therefore, shield-power, given the fact that pirate-attacks exist in the SW Galaxy, and no ship carrying cargo from places such as the Outer Rim is excempt from the possibility of such an attack) one can easily find on the main Stardestroyer.net site, it would be more than likely that a superfreighter in orbit into Coruscant would run into Nero's mining ship (with ST-type shields) and, after feeling an eerie tremor in the superstructure, it would go something like "What was that? Did we just hit something?" right after mass-driving Nero's ship to oblivion.Serafina wrote: Oh, and the Defiant (or any other Trekship) being taken out by colliding with a superfreighter is kinda funny, don't you think?
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10 OPEN "EYES",1,1
20 GET UP$:IF UP$="" THEN 20
30 GOTO BATHROOM
...
10 OPEN "EYES",1,1
20 GET UP$:IF UP$="" THEN 20
30 GOTO BATHROOM
...
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Of course it matters, most scientific laws from late XIXth century are statistical in their nature. Lots of weird thing can happen with infinitesimal probability, like the violation of the second law of thermodynamics. If it happened once you don't need any explanation, this is how the dice rolled, if it happens regularly then something is wrong with the current laws, so some adjustment is required.Serafina wrote:
Oh, and science can, per definition, make no comment on the supernatural. Of course, this gets scetchy if you can actually observe it - if it is part of the natural(=observable) universe, it is not supernatural anymore, is it?
How often these things occur does not really matter.
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Formless
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
^ But even if it happens once thanks to infinitesimally low probability (disregarding for a second how stupid Trek is about this kind of thing) that still doesn't make it SUPERNATURAL, just IMPROBABLE by definition. Hence science still can't comment on the "supernatural."
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Of course science can. If it exists in the real world it isn't supernatural anymore- just showing that are knowledge of how the universe works is very, very wrong.
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Batman
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Which means there IS no such thing as the supernatural (just phenomena we don't fully understand yet), which in turn means science CAN'T comment on the supernatural, due to no such thing existingSamuel wrote:Of course science can. If it exists in the real world it isn't supernatural anymore- just showing that are knowledge of how the universe works is very, very wrong.
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
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'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
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Darth Wong
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Yeah, but that was just shitty storytelling. All he did was kill one room full of people. There is no reason why any fantastic superweapon technology was required, when his ship in orbit could have obliterated the entire building with a single shot. It was done just to show off the Medusa weapon, ie- the whole scene was nothing more than a dramatic "reveal" scene which made no sense in context. If you had a new weapon technology like that, you wouldn't reveal it for such paltry gain.bz249 wrote:Shinzon? Technically what he has done was a coup, yet it was carried out in a single action by killing the Senate and after that point he was the big bad guy.The Romulan Republic wrote:Actually, I can't think of many examples of a Trek faction pulling off or even attempting a decapitating strike on the national level against another power. About the only incidences of such tactics that jump readily to mind are a few attempts to do so against the Founders in DS9 (all obviously failed, except for the Founders-killing bioweapon), and against the Borg in the Voyager series finale.
So I'm not sure its really fair to just blame such a brain bug on TV Trek (maybe TV sci-fi as a whole).
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Patrick Degan
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Hmm...Star Trek is based off of true science. Star Wars is based off of fantasy/never-going-to-happen movie science. Fight your losing battle. You have been owned.
BWAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I think that about sums it up.
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Lord Revan
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
It would a nice experiment to give these "trek is based on real science!!" trekkies a single trek episode or film, tell them to spot and report all science errors and inaccurities in said episode or film (and preferbly give them a one with loads of said errors and/or inaccurities) and see if they can actually admit that trek is just as realistic as any other Scifi francise there is.
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Patrick Degan
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Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
FTL. They have no argument.Lord Revan wrote:It would a nice experiment to give these "trek is based on real science!!" trekkies a single trek episode or film, tell them to spot and report all science errors and inaccurities in said episode or film (and preferbly give them a one with loads of said errors and/or inaccurities) and see if they can actually admit that trek is just as realistic as any other Scifi francise there is.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Re: Trekkie Wall o' Text
Not to mention the Romulans don't appear to have any concept of continuity of government. Not like there'd be someone somewhere who could take over the Romulan government after Shinzon axes the higher-ranking members and then direct the Romulan military after him.Darth Wong wrote:Yeah, but that was just shitty storytelling. All he did was kill one room full of people. There is no reason why any fantastic superweapon technology was required, when his ship in orbit could have obliterated the entire building with a single shot. It was done just to show off the Medusa weapon, ie- the whole scene was nothing more than a dramatic "reveal" scene which made no sense in context. If you had a new weapon technology like that, you wouldn't reveal it for such paltry gain.bz249 wrote:Shinzon? Technically what he has done was a coup, yet it was carried out in a single action by killing the Senate and after that point he was the big bad guy.The Romulan Republic wrote:Actually, I can't think of many examples of a Trek faction pulling off or even attempting a decapitating strike on the national level against another power. About the only incidences of such tactics that jump readily to mind are a few attempts to do so against the Founders in DS9 (all obviously failed, except for the Founders-killing bioweapon), and against the Borg in the Voyager series finale.
So I'm not sure its really fair to just blame such a brain bug on TV Trek (maybe TV sci-fi as a whole).
But hey, we need a movie, so let's make the dangerous, savvy and masterful experts of backstabbing and deception complete retards!
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Writers are people, and people are stupid. So, a large chunk of them have the IQ of beach pebbles. ~fgalkin
You're complaining that the story isn't the kind you like. That's like me bitching about the lack of ninjas in Robin Hood. ~CaptainChewbacca