The "Infallable Mr Spock"

[Lord Poe]

Scurvy faggot! Ooh, Poe that must hurt!

I wouldn't know.

[Master of Ossus]

Just ignore him, Mr. Poe, who even cares? We've already demonstrated that Spock was wrong. We have shown examples of when Data was wrong. The point was to attack the methodology of using only dialogue and then interpreting it literally each time. We have done that. Now let us move on to bigger and better debates.

[DarkStar]

Um, dude. Seriously. That's a major mullet you're sporting.

Mullets are usually dudes with short hair on the top and sides, with long stringy hair in the back that doesn't go any wider than their neck. I have Wookiee hair. BaldStar.

I'm sure you saw these on ASVS, so you must know you really do have full mulletude:

http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... ullet.html
This describes you perfectly:
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... etard.html
But I wonder, is this you?:
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... ullet.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... ndles.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/otherpostings/G_van.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... ocyda.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifica ... ullet.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/otherposti ... ation.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/pictureboo ... index.html
http://www.mulletsgalore.com/pictureboo ... index.html

No it wasn't For one thing, Spock already set the countdown on the helm board, and the lieutenant was counting down Spoc's estimate. The estimate was based on how much time the ship could withstand the speeds it was going before blowing up. Since it witstood that speed at least 10 seconds longer than Spock's best estimate, that means Spock is, once again, wrong.

So Spock's estimate was conservative because the Enterprise was a wee bit stronger than he gave her credit for. Oooooh, shiver.

The Sargon transfers were NOT a success.

Yes they were. It was a complete entity transfer successfully done. Spock is once again, wrong.[/quote]

A "complete entity transfer" can hardly be considered truly complete when the bodies burn themselves out and cannot be maintained. That's like calling a battle a complete success moments before the enemy regroups and kicks your ass... and then still insisting it was a complete success.

[DarkStar]

Just ignore him, Mr. Poe, who even cares? We've already demonstrated that Spock was wrong. We have shown examples of when Data was wrong.

What's the point? The Emperor, Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and every other person on down the line has been wrong. Big whoop.

[Darth Wong]

What's the point? The Emperor, Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and every other person on down the line has been wrong. Big whoop.

Are you really this dense, or are you still employing your brilliant debating tactic of sticking your hands in your ears and screaming "lah lah lah, I can't hear you" like a 6 year old?

Nobody has ever claimed that the Emperor, Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan, or anybody else in SW is infallible, or that their dialogue should be treated as scientific data. Therefore, it is meaningless and pointless to disprove a myth which does not exist.

However, numerous Trekkies have made precisely that claim for Spock and Data. Therefore, it is necessary to disprove that myth. The proper response is to say "oh well, I never held that position anyway" and move on (which is how the smarter Trekkies handled it). However, your response was to get mad and try to attack the point any way you could. This speaks volumes about your approach to this subject.

[Master of Ossus]

Damn it, DarkStar, I was trying to help you avoid getting worked on by Darth Wong and Wayne Poe. You missed the entire point of this debate, even when I tried to point it out to you. When I came back, you had already posted some idiotic red-herring of a comeback that had nothing to do with the reasons for this thread, and Darth Wong had already been forced to hit you again. Get out of this thread. You cannot win, here. Find another debate where you don't seem quite as dumb, and try again there. No one is saying that anyone is infallible. No Warsie would EVER claim that Yoda, or Vader, or the Emperor et. al was incapable of making mistakes. If you read "The Symbolism of Star Wars," on this site, you would have realized that those mistakes were often fundamental to the story (indeed, if you read much tragic literature, or just books in general, you would know this). The problem that we have been having was with Trekkies claiming that because Vulcans never lied they were incapable of making mistakes. Now, just run away to some other thread and argue with someone else there. You cannot win, here. Cut your losses and move on. Do NOT respond again, or you will be beaten, again. Better luck, next time.

[DarkStar]

The proper response is to say "oh well, I never held that position anyway" and move on (which is how the smarter Trekkies handled it). However, your response was to get mad and try to attack the point any way you could.

Whatever his motives, his examples were flawed. I do not believe Spock is infallible, but I also do not believe that Darth Mullet's examples proved fallibility, <I>especially</I> of the sort he was seeking according to you.

This speaks volumes about your approach to this subject.

Oh, please. You're hardly in a position to make accusations about someone being argumentative, much less pansy-ass roundabout ones like the one you make above.

[DarkStar]

Now, just run away to some other thread and argue with someone else there. You cannot win, here. Cut your losses and move on. Do NOT respond again, or you will be beaten, again. Better luck, next time.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[Master of Ossus]

God damnit, DarkStar, did you even read my last post? I cannot believe that after I tried to help you like that you came back asking for more. Now you're really gonna get it! The point is that Spock is not infallible. Therefore, we cannot take everything that he says completely, one hundred percent, literally and expect to be correct one hundred percent of the time. This means, that when the visuals seem to prove that Spock is incorrect, then we can assume that Spock was mistaken. This is clear evidence that Spock was wrong in the past, and that in other episodes he might also be incorrect. GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD, DarkStar, you cannot win here.

[Lord Poe]

Whatever his motives, his examples were flawed.

Bullshit. They were dead on. Yoour idiotic attempts to counter them were wrong.

I do not believe Spock is infallible, but I also do not believe that Darth Mullet's examples proved fallibility,

Of course not, BaldStar, because you're a fucking idiot.

[Master of Ossus]

Okay, DumbStar, I tried to protect you. Now I see you neither wanted nor deserved my protection. All of Wong's examples were correct, Mr. Poe was right. YOU, DimStar, are an idiot for not understanding them and THEN by trying to contradict some of them. His examples were all true. If you never believed that Spock was infallible, why the hell are you on this thread going up against us? Why are you counter-attacking in the face of such a tremendous loss of reputation? You really are as dense as a DarkStar, aren't you? I won't protect you any more from Wong and Poe. I tried to give you advice to get out of here, and you refused to head me. Now you have woken the dragons, and I hope they make you pay.

BTW, Lord Poe, which book is it that your signature refers to? I should try to stay away from it.

[DarkStar]

God damnit, DarkStar, did you even read my last post? I cannot believe that after I tried to help you like that you came back asking for more.

You suggested silence in the face of glaring error, so I wouldn't get flamed. I refused.

Now you're really gonna get it!

Ooooooooh.

The point is that Spock is not infallible.

I'm not disagreeing with the point. However, just because I agree with a point is no reason to accept error used to try to prove that point. That is the critical difference between you and I.

[Master of Ossus]

Alright, DarkStar, where are the errors that you are pointing out with what we have said on the thread?

[DarkStar]

If you never believed that Spock was infallible, why the hell are you on this thread going up against us?

Mr. Spock is not infallible. However, Darth Mullet did not bring up relevant points to prove it. I can accept the conclusion, but I will not accept stupidity used to try to make up a reason for the conclusion.

Why are you counter-attacking in the face of such a tremendous loss of reputation?

Loss of reputation? I'm a <I>pro-Trek</I> debater, and a vocal one, at that. That means my reputation here is shot the moment I walk in the door. That's why my posts get edited, my threads get closed/hidden, and why Wong and his henchmen stuck "Village Idiot" next to my name. In a community like this, do you think I give a rosy red fuck about my reputation with you?

[Master of Ossus]

Why do you not consider what Lord Poe brought up to be evidence against the infallibility of Spock? It seems pretty good to me.

BTW, when I said loss of reputation, I meant that to be taken as a loss of reputation to your INTEGRITY. The fact that you are altering what happened to needlessly debate a stupidly obvious topic in the first place SHOULD have gotten you to just ignore the thread in the first place.

BTW, your "Village Idiot" title was given to you for persistenly (I hope you can get this) BEING AN IDIOT! It was not given to you just because you disagree with us, it was given to you because your ideas and your arguments suck. Consistently. That is why we ostracize you. If you were more like Darkling (in more than just name) then maybe we would treat you more seriously. HE actually posts good points, sometimes. You seem to be needlessly wasting our time by forcing us to make rebuttles against points you never should have tried in the first place.

[Darth Wong]

Whatever his motives, his examples were flawed. I do not believe Spock is infallible, but I also do not believe that Darth Mullet's examples proved fallibility, especially of the sort he was seeking according to you.

In other words, you freely admit that Spock is not infallible, but you attack Lord Poe for proving it incorrectly. That is a red herring by definition; if you have no disagreement with the point, then you are just whining in order to vent spleen, aren't you? In other words, you were doing precisely as I said; instead of simply acknowledging the point and moving on, you have to attack its author any way you can, even if you admit the guy is correct.

This speaks volumes about your approach to this subject.

Oh, please. You're hardly in a position to make accusations about someone being argumentative, much less pansy-ass roundabout ones like the one you make above.

I was (past tense) trying to be civil, you little asshole. If it's honesty you want (and again, I notice that you attack those who disagree with you any way you can, even if it has nothing to do with the point), you're a worthless little shit whose entire debating method is to unapologetically nitpick, and who wouldn't know logic if it came up and bit him in the ass (which it has, many times).

[Master of Ossus]

Ah, crap, DarkStar, here come Darth Wong and Lord Poe. They were trying to work with you, before, but now....

[Cal Wright]

You guys are a fucking laugh riot. How about this. Spock is not infalliable. Data is not infalliable. Mr. Wong and his good graces on a rarity are not infalliable. Darth Mullet is not infalliable, especially cuz I'm waiting on his damned site to be updated (do you have any smack my bitch up posts a.k.a. the Chris O'Farrell tragedy up?). The Defiant and her crew are not infalliable, however, the Falcon is one damned fine piece of machinary and this post has now gone nowhere. Woo!!!

[DarkStar]

BTW, when I said loss of reputation, I meant that to be taken as a loss of reputation to your INTEGRITY. The fact that you are altering what happened to needlessly debate a stupidly obvious topic in the first place SHOULD have gotten you to just ignore the thread in the first place.

My integrity is just fine. As for that crap you say about "altering what happened", what the hell are you talking about?

BTW, your "Village Idiot" title was given to you for persistenly (I hope you can get this) BEING AN IDIOT!

No, it was given to me because you and those like you perceive me as an idiot, because I am not a yes-man or Disciple of Wong. I have my own mind and my own opinions, and can defend those opinions with logic and evidence. The reason you hate me is because I don't back down in the face of numerous warsies jumping on my case, spraying irrelevancies and red herrings. I only back down when I am shown a rationally superior argument.

It was not given to you just because you disagree with us, it was given to you because your ideas and your arguments suck.

That is your opinion, but it is one neither you nor anyone else has managed to defend.

If you were more like Darkling (in more than just name) then maybe we would treat you more seriously. HE actually posts good points, sometimes.

With my apologies to Darkling (who I like), I have to say that from what I've seen, the reason you like him is because he is easily swayed and too trusting, not noticing the sophistries perpetrated in his presence, and often willing to go along with the crowd. He isn't quite a yes-man, but more of a probably-man. You would turn on him in a matter of seconds if he noticed something you didn't like, and refused to budge from the facts of the matter.

[DarkStar]

Whatever his motives, his examples were flawed. I do not believe Spock is infallible, but I also do not believe that Darth Mullet's examples proved fallibility, especially of the sort he was seeking according to you.

In other words, you freely admit that Spock is not infallible, but you attack Lord Poe for proving it incorrectly. That is a red herring by definition; if you have no disagreement with the point, then you are just whining in order to vent spleen, aren't you?

Are you really so entranced with intellectually dishonesty that you do not see the value in correcting a false argument, even if you agree with the conclusion?

In other words, you were doing precisely as I said; instead of simply acknowledging the point and moving on, you have to attack its author any way you can, even if you admit the guy is correct.

He was not correct. Faulty arguments do not prove a valid conclusion. Or, to dumb it down to your level, a stopped clock is not right twice a day... it is lucky.

This speaks volumes about your approach to this subject.

Oh, please. You're hardly in a position to make accusations about someone being argumentative, much less pansy-ass roundabout ones like the one you make above.

I was (past tense) trying to be civil, you little asshole.[/quote]

Oh, sure. And I'm trying to be a warsie.

[LordShaithis]

God DAMN!

If a pig fucked a poodle, the result would look like Poe. Nice hair.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It amazes me that such a simple point, that Spock isn't perfect, can go on into one big argument led by some Trekkies who have replaced their brains with earwax so as to stop logic intruding into their craniums.

[Master of Ossus]

It amazes me that such a simple point, that Spock isn't perfect, can go on into one big argument led by some Trekkies who have replaced their brains with earwax so as to stop logic intruding into their craniums.

Yeah, I know, but then they have that Trekkie logic going for them. Anyways, I like how DarkStar was claiming that he was only trying to argue about our METHOD instead of our conclusions, when he was clearly doing both despite the fact that he had no clue why Spock's fallibility would be an important point.

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, there's an Enterprise episode that I saw part of and my friend saw the whole of. According to the episode, the Vulcans were spying on their neighbors out of a MONASTERY! They then repeatedly lied about their activity on the planet, until Captain Archer (DAMN him) and his crew uncovered the truth. THAT should prove that Vulcans lie and are not infallible. These weren't half-Vulcans, either. These were the real things.

[Moonstone Spider]

Oh man, that episode really made me want to puke too. I quit watching Enterprise after that one, couldn't stand it anymore. Here we have an aggressive hostile race (Andorians) that the Vulcans have been at WAR with recently and Archer gets all self-righteous because the Vulcans. . . are spying on them. Observing troop movements. Frankly if the Vulcans weren't spying on the Andorians in that situation, I wouldn't want to be their allies as they clearly aren't intelligent enough to walk around with scizzors.

Now if he'd found the Vulcans building a Death Star (yeah right) or making anti-Andorian biological weapons his reaction might be (barely) understandable. But observing a former and potential future enemy is such basic strategy that making it out to be evil merely confirms what we all know, a single flight of X-Wings would probably conquer the whole Federation simply due to their crap tactics.

And if the Vulcans didn't declare War on Earth for showing an unknown but hostile race their secret base they're morons.