The death of the senate

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2002-12-24 12:48am

I was wondering how shinzon(sp?) became praetor (is that the highest romulan political rank?) What would happen if something like this happened in the US, all of congress was killed in one fell swoop, wouldn't a governor take over?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-24 12:54am

Of course not. Whoever murdered them all would become the next President, rather than being shot dead. That's how it works, right?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-24 01:00am

Given how our political system works(this election proves beyond a shadow of a doubt our vote counted worth shit...yay electoral college for showing again why the fuck should we vote)

I say yes, the person who manages such a worthwhile and fantastic feat(elimanating Congress) should be our President.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-24 01:27am

In the US there is a defined presidential succession order in the event the selected president dies or is killed in office. At present the succession order is 17 levels deep and mostly contains members of the cabinet.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_succ.html

I'm not familiar with any defined procedures to deal with a mass loss of congresscritters but it's not too much of a stretch to assume that replacements would simply be appointed by their respective states' governers as is presently done when sitting congresscritters become indisputably incapacitated while in office.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2002-12-24 02:19am

The states would replace their congressmen. The procedure is either in the US or State constitutions. The Executive branch would then be in charge of hunting down the parties responsible.

What made Shinzon's rise to power possible was that he was heading a military coup at the same time. The Senate attack was just theatrics. Shinzon's faction could just as easily have disposed of the old government by other means.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-24 02:49am

It was still cool looking though

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-12-24 03:29am

Darth Wong wrote:Of course not. Whoever murdered them all would become the next President, rather than being shot dead. That's how it works, right?

If only that's the way it worked!

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2002-12-24 04:52am

Shrykull wrote:I was wondering how shinzon(sp?) became praetor (is that the highest romulan political rank?) What would happen if something like this happened in the US, all of congress was killed in one fell swoop, wouldn't a governor take over?

Remember that Skippy had the full support of the Romulan navy.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-24 10:51am

The order of presidential succession looks like this:

President > Vice President > Speaker of the House > On down the cabinet, in the order the posisitions were created.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-24 11:35am

FaxModem1 wrote:It was still cool looking though

Yes, and that's all that matters, isn't it.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-12-24 02:04pm

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperi ... mesis.html

The next problem is the death of the Senate. There goes the only democratic leadership in 'trek. (when did you last hear of the federation council running for election?) Also, how stupid do the writers think the Romulans are? Do they honestly believe that there is no deputy Praetor? No mention of the Continuing comitee (who seemed to be a seperate body, with only the Preator in both) Where were the Tal'Shiar? I hate to be a continuity buff but if the Tal'Shiar are everywhere as the federation would have you believe why did they not see this coming?

(Yes I shall be updating that page once i see the film *shudder*)

The head of the Tal'Shiar was not there. He would be the most likely candidate for the job IMO.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2002-12-24 03:01pm

Blow up the capitol building during the state of the union address and the Secretary of Veterans Affairs becomes the President..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-12-24 03:46pm

Yeah really, where were the fucking vaunted Tal'Shiar? Or was Logan too busy ripping off other Star Trek films to bother?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-24 03:48pm

That scene pissed me off. The MOMENT that female senator left her satchel on the table, BOTH me and my dad knew it was a bomb. The Senate, however, didn't even NOTICE it.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-24 03:48pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The order of presidential succession looks like this:

President > Vice President > Speaker of the House > On down the cabinet, in the order the posisitions were created.

After Speaker of the House comes President Pro Tempore of the Senate then the cabinet.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-24 04:01pm

Well with the senate dead the head of the Tal'Shiar would probably be somewhere near the head of the queue to take control of the Romulans.

After Shizons attempt the senate is gone, the Anti Federation Navy people has exposed themselves (and also comitted treason) thus seting themselves up to be dealt with and the head of the Tal'Shiar is probably the most powerful man on Romulas.

Now since the head of the Tal'Shiar is in the Federations pocket (Section 31 at least) the new Romulan government is going to be very Pro Federation (With the Senate being rebuilt with the Tal'Shiar having a good say so in who gets in (and we know that its the "old" generation that made up the hardliners, newer senators = softer stance) and all the anti federation types have exposed themselves(and therefore will probably get disappeared)).

Taking all this into consideration it wouldn't surprise me if the Tal'Shiar let the coup happen (if they didn't aid it overtly), bit of a risk with the earth destroying weapon and all but S31 are risk takers.

Just idle speculation of course.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2002-12-24 11:29pm

.....Now since the head of the Tal'Shiar is in the Federations pocket (Section 31 at least) the new Romulan government is going to be very Pro Federation ......

The Tal'Shiar is controlled by S31???

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-24 11:56pm

Yeah, in a DS9 episode, Bashir discovers and accidenly helps S31's grip on the Tal SHiar by having their leader in their pocket and wihout much suspicion.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-12-25 01:20pm

Durandal wrote:Yeah really, where were the fucking vaunted Tal'Shiar? Or was Logan too busy ripping off other Star Trek films to bother?

Simple, they aren't as much of an all pervasive secret police as the Feds would have you believe.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-25 06:17pm

The procedure to replace members of the House of Representatives would be special elections. If enough died at one time for the House to drop under the quorum that the Constitution requires, that would leave Congress paralyzed for maybe 4 to 6 months while the special elections were conducted. Senators are replaced by the appointment of the Governor of their state, so replacing the Senate would be a much easier proposition.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-12-25 10:49pm

Shrykull wrote:I was wondering how shinzon(sp?) became praetor (is that the highest romulan political rank?) What would happen if something like this happened in the US, all of congress was killed in one fell swoop, wouldn't a governor take over?

It's fairly obvious that they were copying the Roman republic there, so why didn't they just go all the way and call their leader the consul?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-12-26 01:42pm

Graeme Dice wrote:
Shrykull wrote:I was wondering how shinzon(sp?) became praetor (is that the highest romulan political rank?) What would happen if something like this happened in the US, all of congress was killed in one fell swoop, wouldn't a governor take over?
It's fairly obvious that they were copying the Roman republic there, so why didn't they just go all the way and call their leader the consul?

Because that would mean two of them, and B&B couldn't stand that, Something that doesn't look like a dictatorship?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-12-26 01:47pm

FaxModem1 wrote:Yeah, in a DS9 episode, Bashir discovers and accidenly helps S31's grip on the Tal SHiar by having their leader in their pocket and wihout much suspicion.

Yeah but the guy has a terminal desise that would be accellerated by a phaser or disrupter in proximity to him (more dangers of use) and at the end of the ep a shot on disintegrate power missed his nose by about two inches.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-26 05:23pm

when did he have a terminal disease?

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2002-12-26 08:00pm

NecronLord wrote: Because that would mean two of them, and B&B couldn't stand that, Something that doesn't look like a dictatorship?

I thought the Romulans had an Empire. You know, with an emperor.

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