Generic Mary Sue Litmus Test

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Generic Mary Sue Litmus Test

Post by Sidewinder »

I found this gem at http://www.lostfactor.net/misc/mslt.txt
Generic Mary Sue Litmus Test - 100
v0.5
by Eliot Lefebvre, with suggestions from Sean Simpson

Something important to note: although most of these questions are yes
or no, there's definite wiggle room in some. Don't be afraid to think
about the wording for a while before choosing your answer.

1. Character Generalities

1.1. Is the character the same gender as you / the gender you want
to be?
1.2. Does the character have a similar name to you?
1.2.1. Is that intentional?
1.2.2. Is it the same as a name you use?
1.2.3. ...on the Internet?
1.2.4. Are you writing under a pen name so people won't know
that?
1.3. Does the character look like you?
1.3.1. ...except for having additional qualities you would like?
1.3.2. ...even though it doesn't make much sense (for example,
they're a Transformer)?
1.4. Is the character an addition to an existing series or a fusion
of several series?
(NOTE: If not, most "main character" questions do not apply,
since they -are- one of the main characters.)
1.4.1. ...one that you didn't create?
1.4.2. ...does the character replace other characters from the
beginning of the series?
1.4.3. Does the character have a history with the characters
from the series?
1.4.3.1. Are they the son/daughter of some characters?
1.4.3.2. ...popular characters?
1.4.3.3. ...that seem unlikely to hook up under most
circumstances?
1.4.3.4. ...are they the long-lost brother/sister of a
character?
1.4.3.4. ...popular characters?
1.4.4. Is the history one that contradicts existing histories?
1.4.5. ...that severely changes the environment of the series?
1.4.6. ...that isn't shown through stories, simply stated or
accepted as fact?
1.5. Is the character fairly young, between 16 to about 22?
1.5.1. Do they hold positions that would be unlikely for their
age?
1.5.2. ...multiple such positions?
1.5.3. Is their past one that would mean they've been -very-
busy in those years?

2. Character Stories

2.1. Is the first story with this character titled after them?
2.1.1. Is it part of a series?
2.1.2. ...that's named after them?
2.1.3. Is it some permutation on "The Creation of (Character)"?
2.2. Does the character have a "dark past?"
2.2.1. Is such mentioned many times before being explored?
2.2.2. ...to the point that nobody could forget if they tried?
2.2.3. Is it based around a horrible tragedy?
2.2.3.1. Do they think it's their fault?
2.2.3.2. ...even in light of overwhelming evidence to
the contrary?
2.2.3.3. ...although they're seeking revenge on those
responsible regardless?
2.2.4. Does the character tie most events into this horrible
past?
2.2.5. ...regardless of actual relevance?
2.2.6. Is the story / series almost entirely about the dark
past?
2.3. Is the character a major player in the story?
2.3.1. ...to the point of overshadowing the main characters?
2.3.2. ...even though there's no good reason for them to be?
2.3.3. Are most of the other important players characters you
like?
2.3.4. ...that the character becomes friends with?
2.4. If the character died, would there be no point in continuing
the story?
2.4.1. Would such a death have to come while saving the world?
2.4.2. Would all the other characters agree that there was no
more point in living?
2.5. Does the character solve problems that give the main characters
pause?
2.5.1. ...mostly beating up the antagonists with ease?
2.5.2. ...including the antagonists that are largely understood
to be unbeatable?
2.5.3. Can the character solve problems that would give ANYONE
with half a brain pause?
2.5.4. ...without expending much effort?

3. Character Abilities

3.1. Is the character more athletic than you?
3.1.1. ...than the main characters?
3.1.2. ...than most human beings, including Olympic athletes?
3.1.3. ...despite the fact that they shouldn't be (for example,
they're a computer programmer)?
3.2. Does the character have supernatural powers?
3.2.1. ...of a world-shattering scope?
3.2.2. ...that are far beyond those possesed by the main
characters?
3.2.3. ...because the main characters possess no such powers?
3.2.4. ...in a world where such superpowers are rare?
3.2.4.1. ...to nonexistent?
3.2.4.2. ...and solely the province of antagonists?
3.2.5. Are they largely invincible?
3.2.6. ...except for one utterly inaccessible weakness (really,
now)?
3.3. Is the character more attractive than you?
3.3.1. Does it get them out of embarassing situations?
3.3.2. ...or life-threatening ones?
3.3.3. Are they attractive enough so that pretty much everybody
is attracted to them?
3.4. Is or was the character part of a secret society, special
group, et cetera?
3.4.1. ...that is supposedly the sole province of the
antagonists?
3.4.2. Did the group not exist in the story before the
character was introduced (i.e. it's created for the
character)?
3.4.3. Is the character thought of / remembered as its greatest
member or child of same?
3.5. Is the character smarter than you?
3.5.1. ...than the main characters?
3.5.2. ...than most Nobel Prize winners?
3.5.3. ...in addition to being extremely athletic?

4. Character Interaction

4.1. Do most of the other characters like this character?
4.1.1. ...even if it seems unlikely?
4.1.2. ...even though they're on different sides?
4.1.3. ...no matter what the character does to them?
4.2. Does the character wind up falling in love?
4.2.1. ...with a feature/major character?
4.2.2. ...and it's requited immediately?
4.2.3. ...with no need for courtship?
4.2.4. Is the loved character someone that you would want to
date?
4.2.4.1. ...even though their character is wildly
oppositional to such an event?
4.2.4.2. ...even though the character already has a
significant other?
4.2.5. Does the loved character pine after the character first?
4.3. Does the character persuade certain antagonists over to his way
of thinking?
4.3.1. ...routinely?
4.3.2. ...even though the antagonist in question believes with
a fervor and always has?
4.3.3. Is the antagonist in question regarded as a "cool"
antagonist?
4.3.4. Once persuaded, does nobody question the convert's
motives?
4.3.5. ...because it was the character who talked him over?
4.4. Do -you- think that the character is inherently likable?
4.4.1. ...and that anyone who doesn't like your character
doesn't like you?
4.4.2. ...and that anyone who doesn't like the character has
serious mental problems?
4.4.3. Given the chance, would you want to be more like the
character?
4.4.4. ...heck, -exactly- like?

The Wind-Down:

There are 100 questions on this litmus test. Each one is worth a
point. Answering "yes" to a question nets the point, and answering
"no" awards no points. The result is a vague percentage that gives
some idea of where your character falls on the Mary Sue Meter:

0-10%: Devoid of Mary Sueness. The character runs little risk of
becoming a Mary Sue, although there's a high probability that they're
only a background character.
11-20%: Nothing unusual. The character has traces of being a Mary Sue,
but that doesn't mean they are. They're safe to include without fear,
and are purely harmless.
21-30%: Strong traces of Mary Sue-ism, but that's all. Some people may
find the character grating, but that's sort of par for the course.
Beware, though - they're tilting towards a dangerous road, not away
from it.
31-40%: Borderline Mary Sue. The skill of the writer involved largely
decides whether or not the character in question is so annoying it
hurts, but it's worth re-examining the character just to be sure.
41-50%: The low end of the median, the character walks a thin line.
This is about the level most people will immediately peg the character
as a Mary Sue. Doable, but very touchy.
51-60%: On the high end of the median, this character isn't a full-
fledged Mary Sue, but they're heading in that direction. They're
probably still likable, but best be careful, or they'll turn into the
bane of every writer and reader.
61-70%: At this point, the character can truly be called a "Mary Sue."
For those unfamiliar, the term is usually preceded by "goddamn."
Though possibly salvagable, serious work will be needed to prevent Mary
Suishness.
71-80%: Let's hope you're writing a parody. This is about the upper
limit for characters that can be salvaged and avoid becoming Mary Sues,
but it's a dangerous peak. Seriously reconsider both plot and
character in question.
81-90%: Very high on the Mary Sue meter, this sort of character tends
to drag down the story, so a good story becomes bad and a bad story
becomes a crime against nature. Probably too far gone to save, the
best bet is to abandon it.
91-100%: No doubt about, Mary Sue is in the building. Just don't use
the character. If this warning comes too late... well, it's hard to
accidentally create a Mary Sue of this magnitude, so you knew the turd
you were writing from the beginning.
Characters in my own fanfics score an average of 22.4, with a high of 37. How high do your ACCs score on this test?
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by Trogdor »

Hasn't this been posted before?
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
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Post by Anomie »

Trogdor wrote:Hasn't this been posted before?
Here's the old one
You shall be the instrument of my vengence. Through you I shall scream out my wrath unto the heavens.
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Post by El Moose Monstero »

11%, there's a relief, I've been worried that a character of mine has been a Mary Sue for a while now. Thanks for posting that, rather useful.
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Post by Ford Prefect »

What exactly is a Mary Sue? I've heard the term, yet don't quite understand the concept.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
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Post by fgalkin »

Ford Prefect wrote:What exactly is a Mary Sue? I've heard the term, yet don't quite understand the concept.
Wiki's your friend, then
Mary Sue (or simply Sue) is a usually derogatory expression for a fictional character who is an idealized stand-in for the author, or for a story with such a character. A Mary Sue therefore goes beyond a conventional author surrogate character. The term originates in fan fiction but is spreading into general use. This has caused some backlash in the fannish community as people change the understood definition and begin to define any original characters in fiction as a Mary Sue. A second version would be the 'Idealized Woman', a character written often, though not always, by male writers as companion to their hero character. Sometimes female writers create these also as main characters, in the belief it is not a Mary Sue because it is not Self Insert.

Male 'Sues' may be called 'Marty Stus', 'Murray Stus', 'Harry Stus', and/or 'Gary Stus', although the original 'Mary Sue' term is often considered unisex. A rarer unisex variant is 'Airy Ooh'. Authors of such characters (of either sex) are sometimes referred to as Suethors.

In fan fiction, Mary Sue characters are usually the original creation of the fan fiction author, but sometimes 'canon Sues' are created by adapting pre-existing canon characters. Conversely, such original characters or adapted characters are not necessarily Mary Sues. The Peter Jairus Frigate character of the Riverworld series, for instance, is deliberately based on his author but rarely the focus of the story. However, there are a great number of preexisting Sues in canon, namely those in many videogames, anime, and manga.

Mary Sue characters are generally marked by overdescription with extraneous, tacked-on paragraphs describing in great detail their distinctive appearance or possessions, even if they have no significance for the plot and seem out of place. For example, a Mary Sue would not merely be said to carry a gun. The model, color, appearance, and special features of the gun would be described all at once.

Although 'narcissistic' Sues and 'unintentional' Sues (characters that develop into Sues due to the author's subconscious) remain common, some authors now write Mary Sues deliberately as a form of parody.

Typical Sues

A Mary Sue may be tougher, smarter, and cooler than the established characters and so win their admiration. Alternately, the Sue may be nicer, sweeter, and more charming than the established characters (often despite being tortured by a tragic past) and win their love. Either way, the setting's protagonists are upstaged by the new character's perfection. If this new character dies in the story (typically as an act of self-sacrifice), there is often extensive grieving.

Female Mary Sues are abundant in both fanfiction and actual series, particularly anime. Miaka Yūki from Fushigi Yūgi, Hitomi Kanzaki from Vision of Escaflowne, Aeris from Final Fantasy VII, and Lacus Clyne from Mobile Suit Gundam SEED are canonical main characters who demonstrate possession of some, if not all, of the typical Mary Sue traits. Some readers of the Harry Potter series also accuse the characters Hermione Granger (an admitted author surrogate of JK Rowling) and Ginny Weasley of being Mary Sues.

Common traits of Mary Sues:

* Can do no wrong - or, if she does do anything wrong, has strong justification for it
* Well-liked by all the canonical protagonists
* Powers or abilities closely paralleling those of a major canon character
* If much of the tension in a series is largely dependent upon a sequence of ongoing character flaws and misunderstandings (such as the works of Rumiko Takahashi), the Mary Sue character almost invariably possesses a 'big picture' view that allows them to solve all of these little problems, thereby sewing up the series in a happily-ever-after fashion

None of these traits in and of themselves make a Mary Sue. For example, just because a character is based on the author does not make it a Mary Sue. Rather, a Sue depends on the author's reliance on such gimmicks to make a character unique and appealing. Another "yardstick" used to see if a character is considered to be a Mary Sue is how other characters react to that character. For example, even if a Mary Sue is impossibly beautiful or talented, other characters are unlikely to be jealous of her. Jealous characters, if they appear at all, are often female canon characters whom the author intensely dislikes. Their behavior is invariably vicious, cruel, and completely out of character.

It is also worth noting that the "perfection" of a Mary Sue is first and foremost in the eyes of the author, not of the audience. A Mary Sue may have obvious flaws, but the author will not percieve them as being flaws and will likely have such traits considered endearing rather than annoying by the canonical characters
[edit]

Sueification

"Sueification" is a name that has been applied to the transformation of a canon character to fit the fanwriter's preferences. The character is likely to lose the traits the writer finds uninteresting or unappealing, and to gain characteristics which the writer likes but which the character had previously not possessed. Perhaps the most prevalent example is the transformation of Hermione Granger, as seen in a number of Harry Potter fanfics: in a randomly selected story readers are likely to find Hermione with her bushy hair straightened and "raven black", Hermione in extremely revealing clothing rather than the canonical school robes, Hermione revealing that her father abuses or molests her, Hermione learning that she is adopted and "really" a pureblood (not muggle-born), Hermione abandoning her beloved books and studies in favor of fashion and flirtation, Hermione "re-sorted" into Slytherin House, Hermione romantically or sexually involved with Draco Malfoy or Ginny Weasley, or any combination of these.

A variant of this is the "Author's Pet", where a canon character gains new powers or abilities that they had not displayed in the original source material, making them more powerful or capable than the other characters. In many cases, it will be a character written into a relationship with a Mary Sue character, and the powers will mirror those possessed by the Mary Sue. For example, if a Mary Sue had the ability to transform into a dragon, then the "author's pet" would also gain that ability.
[edit]

Gary Stu

Gary Stus (also known as Marty Stus) are far rarer in fandom, partly because fanfic is predominantly written by women but also because many fandoms (Harry Potter, for example) have a shortage of female characters. Some have also observed [1] that Gary Stus tend to be written into the canon already, enabling them to "hide in plain sight"; the M*A*S*H character Hawkeye Pierce, as written by actor/screenwriter Alan Alda, may be a mainstream example.

Oftentimes canonical Gary Stus, like Mary Sues, tend to have special abilities, or have powers which far exceed that of other characters. The main characters of many shōnen anime, such as Uzumaki Naruto of Naruto, Kurosaki Ichigo of Bleach, Kazuma Azuma of Yakitate!! Japan, and Kira Yamato of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED have such qualities, although it does not necessarily mean that they themselves are actually Gary Stus.

Gary Stu-type characters are not limited to anime. While it has often been said that Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan character demonstrates many Gary Stu-esque qualities, Clive Cussler has, in fact, taken the Gary Stu to a new level in his Dirk Pitt series of books. Apparently named after Cussler's own son Dirk, the character of Dirk Pitt maintains many of Cussler's own hobbies, including maritime archeology and collecting antique automobiles. However, Cussler has also directly written himself into many of his novels in the form of minor scenes where Pitt receives aid, often crucial, from a character named Clive Cussler. Suspiciously, Pitt never seems to link these meetings together although he often thinks that Cussler looks familiar. (This sort of cultural reference within fiction is not as uncommon as it used to be: examples include a character on David E. Kelley's The Practice "having to get home in time to watch Boston Public" (another contemporaneous television series by Kelley), as well as a regular, derisive comment by one or another character in a Dale Brown novel to the effect of "this is real life, not a Tom Clancy novel".)

A Gary Stu is somewhat different from a Mary Sue in that his perfections are less oriented on personality and more on physical traits, skill, or expertise. For example, some Gary Stus are very strong, skilled swordfighters, expert wizards, or legendary heroes with scars who often attract female characters within the story. Most are designed to fill either the role of dangerous action hero or caring, supportive lover. In addition to Mary Sue traits such as unusual background and lack of flaws, the following features are common:

* Dark, brooding, quiet, mysterious, tormented, or otherwise enigmatic, with a dark or tormented past yet somehow showing none of the psychological damage that such a past should inflict; sometimes being almost comic relief silly
* Either a devoted, monogamous lover, or an accomplished, "badass" action hero
* Plenty of gadgets; accompanied by lists of weapons, technology, etc.
* Penchant for violence or skill in battle (sometimes to the point of seeming sociopathic)
* Reluctant warrior, caught up in a conflict he's not ready for (for example, Luke Skywalker from Star Wars)
* "Strong but sensitive" alpha male type (for example, Wolverine from the X-Men)
* An attractive young ephebe who has earned the respect of his much older companions through his genius-level intelligence and/or skills.(for example, Darren Shan from Cirque Du Freak)

[edit]

Notable Sue facts

Pat Pflieger's essay "Too Good to be True: 150 Years of Mary Sue" trace the Mary Sue archetype to the idealized young heroines of stories written by the female subscribers to mid-19th century magazines.

Television shows that have generated large bodies of fan fiction have included episodes that draw on the Mary Sue clichés, including the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Hollow Pursuits" and the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Superstar". The X-Files character Leyla Harrison, featured in the episodes "Alone" and "Scary Monsters," was both a Mary Sue and an affectionate tribute to a recently-deceased fanfiction writer after whom the character was named.

Some fans have suggested that Star Trek's Wesley Crusher was Eugene Wesley Roddenberry's Mary Sue character, although author surrogate would be a better term. Other canon characters that have Mary Sue-like traits include Willow Rosenberg of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Kitty Pryde of the X-Men.

Diane Carey's "Piper" Star Trek novels (Dreadnought! and Battlestations!) meet most of the criteria defining Mary Sue fiction, and are arguably among the very few Mary Sues good enough to avoid general condemnation.

The term Mary Sue is often said to have originated from a Star Trek fanfiction bearing the first original Mary Sue (with that same name). The story, however, while the first to use the name, was actually a parody lampooning previous Mary Sues: "A Trekkie's Tale," written by Paula Smith and published in the fanzine Menagerie #2 in 1973. (Source: Verba's Boldly Writing)

Roz Kaveney used the term in her review of the television program Doctor Who in the April 29, 2005 issue of The Times Literary Supplement: "[Rose] is also what is commonly known as a 'Mary Sue'--an unironic reflection or the writers' and fans' desire to get in there and help the Doctor out (while managing to stay pretty)."

One of the pre-made characters in The Sims 2 is named "Mary-Sue."
[edit]

Timeline of Mary Sue in Fan Fiction

* 1973: While Star Trek fan fiction had a number of stories featuring this type of character, it was not until 1973 that a name was given to the writing convention involving that ubiquitous original female character who became involved with one of men of Star Trek. She would be named by Paula Smith in the Star Trek fanzine Menagerie #2. The story was titled "A Trekkie's Tale." The story is reprinted in Verba's Bold Writing. Paula Smith would go on to write several sequels to this story. This name and the character traits attributed to the character would stay with the fan fiction community for many years.
* 1974: "The Misfit (A Star Trek Romance)" by Sharon Emily is an example of an early story with a Mary Sue type character.
* 1975: "Double Double Toil and Trouble" by Nickkee Grayson is another example of an early Mary Sue that was published this year in the Star Trek fan fiction community.
* 1975: By 1975, the discussion regarding Mary Sue had begun. According to Verba, Paula Smith criticized a story that had been published in an issue of Warped Space. The criticism was because Paula Smith felt the story contained a Mary Sue. The Star Trek fandom did what we do in modern fan fiction culture: it kerfluffled over the issue of if fan fiction should be criticized. There were two sides to this argument. One said that fan fiction should be held up to the same standards as professionally written work and was worthy of the same type of analysis as other literary works; the other side said, wait, no, this is for fun and we should not criticize it. The end result of this discussion was that a number of fanzines refused to publish anything but positive reviews of other zines and pieces of fan fiction.
* 1978: "Pasadena Blue" by Paula Block is another example of an early Mary Sue. This story was published this year in the Star Trek community.
* 1980: Frustrated Star Trek fan fiction writer Virginia Zanello wrote a story called "Side Trip" which answered the question of how would the crew of Enterprise act if an actual Mary Sue showed up on the ship. (Verba) This indicated a sense of Mary Sue fatigue happening in the Star Trek community.
* 1980 to 1988: The Blake's 7 fan fiction community was going through a phase that other communities had gone through before. This period involved the writing of a Mary Sues with these stories being published in a number of fanzines. This phase would last several years. These Mary Sues were frequently paired with Travis as their primary love interest.
* 1982: In November, in the Blake's fan fiction community, "The Price of Freedom," by Sylvia White, was published in Orbit #1. According to Sarah Berry, this was one of "the world's longest 'Mary Sue's."
* 1983: "Marisoo Tudewesque" by Sharon Macy was published. This story was another piece of satire, further mocking the Mary Sue type stories in the Star Trek community.
* 1985: Mary Sue begins to cross various fannish lines. One of the first references to her using the definition established by Paula Smith on-line happened on Usenet. This term has also crossed fannish communities and is being used in the comic book fan fiction community.
* 1990: Mary Sue, where are you? This is an observation made on rec.art.startrek by Bob Mosley III. He noted that Mary Sue has been noticeably absent in the posting of fan fiction to the group. No posts prior to this mention her. This stands out given that there are very few other references to Mary Sue on Usenet prior to this date. Various zine communities had been struggling with Mary Sue for sometime but this was fan space where it was not an issue.
* 1996 to 1997: During this period, a long debate broke out on HLFIC-L in regards to the male version of Mary Sue. The debate asked the question of whether it was possible to have a male Mary Sue. After some consensus was reached that this was possible, the list reached another general consensus as to call this particular fannish animal. The name they arrived at: Marty Sam.
* 1997: The original Mary Sue Litmus Test was created by Merlin Missy for Gargoyles fandom.
* 1997: The "Power Rangers Mary Sue Litmus Test" was written by Amanda Ohlin.
* 1998: The "Thundercats Mary Sue Litmus Test" was written by Cheezey.
* 1999: "The Labyrinth Mary Sue Litmus Test" was created by Alexa Close on July 30, 1999.
* 2000: Priscilla Spencer wrote the "Harry Potter Mary Sue Litmus Test."
* 2001: In March, the "Sentinel Mary Sue Litmus Test" was created.
* 2002: "The Gatchaman Mary Sue Litmus Test" was created by Emby Quinn.
* 2002: By 2002, the definition of Mary Sue began to change as Mary Sue became further and further removed from her roots. In communities like Harry Potter and Good Charlotte, on sites like SugarQuill and FanDomination.Net, the community took their understanding of Mary Sue, which was filtered through several layers of various fen, and came to a new understanding. This understanding began to define almost every original character in fiction as a Mary Sue as they all could be said to have traits of Mary Sue. In communities where there was a distinct absence of canonical female characters and people, such as Mest and Good Charlotte, Mary Sue began to be defined as any original female character in fan fiction.
* 2002: The "Lord of the Rings Mary Sue Litmus Test" was written.
* 2002: Around this time, a ReBoot Mary Sue Litmus Test was created and hosted on "The List".
* 2002 to 2003: SugarQuill held a discussion regarding Mary Sue which started the trend of defining almost every original character in Harry Potter fan fiction as a Mary Sue.
* 2003: The "Inuyasha Mary Sue Litmus Test" was created by Mette Krangnes on April 23 of this year.
* 2003: In this year, various articles were written in the Les Misérables community about Mary Sue and some of the problems regarding her that were happening in the community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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Post by Peregrin Toker »

This applied to some of the characters I have created for the Sovereigns Of The Stars universe on OmniverseZero.Com:

Isabella Thereza Amelia Noguiera, Psi-Specialist Trooper: 22%
Ms. Wayne, Regeneratrix of the Silver Shield: 23%
C. J. Motonow: 16%
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Cheers fgalkin. AS it turns out, Markus Delgado scores a hefty 2 by this test.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
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Post by Crazedwraith »

Well my 'Robert Sumner' Charatcer scored a total of ten. Although the test seems more orientated towards those adding original characters into other universes rather than whole original settings.
Norseman
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Post by Norseman »

Crazedwraith wrote:Well my 'Robert Sumner' Charatcer scored a total of ten. Although the test seems more orientated towards those adding original characters into other universes rather than whole original settings.
Indeed Allan Whitcomb scores only a 10, which is kind of odd given that he is a highly trained James Bondish kind of fellow, who does ten impossible feats before breakfast! I mean he is deliberately written to be a bit over the top, and yet he only scores a 10...

So I think we need more tests for original settings!
Anomie
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Post by Anomie »

My character came up as 28% using this test and a 14 for the old test.

Considering that I was specifically writing a mary-sue character, I don't think these are good tests.
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Norseman
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Post by Norseman »

Anomie wrote:My character came up as 28% using this test and a 14 for the old test.

Considering that I was specifically writing a mary-sue character, I don't think these are good tests.
I think that a lot of Mary Sue tests fall into the trap of looking for self-insertion, and inserting new characters into existing universes. If your character does neither then he or she won't show up on their scales
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Post by Anomie »

Norseman wrote:I think that a lot of Mary Sue tests fall into the trap of looking for self-insertion, and inserting new characters into existing universes. If your character does neither then he or she won't show up on their scales
That's just it, my character is a self-insert and put into a pre-existing universe.

But my guy is almost an anti-Mary Sue, with instead of being the focus of the story, he's one of several main characters, and instead being beloved by all, he's initially feared, and only gain's a grudging respect by the end of the story. Most of the things on the list that possibly relate to my character, he's usually the oppisite of what they consider a Mary Sue.

That's it! My Mary Sue's actually are Anti-Mary Sue's!

"Behold! I am become Anti-Mary Sue! The destroyer of FanFiction!" :D
You shall be the instrument of my vengence. Through you I shall scream out my wrath unto the heavens.
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Post by Glocksman »

I like his stuff, but IMHO, the Jack Ryan character in Tom Clancy's novels, especially his later works, is a Mary Sue (or Marty Stu in this case).
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

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Post by fgalkin »

Anomie wrote:
Norseman wrote:I think that a lot of Mary Sue tests fall into the trap of looking for self-insertion, and inserting new characters into existing universes. If your character does neither then he or she won't show up on their scales
That's just it, my character is a self-insert and put into a pre-existing universe.

But my guy is almost an anti-Mary Sue, with instead of being the focus of the story, he's one of several main characters, and instead being beloved by all, he's initially feared, and only gain's a grudging respect by the end of the story. Most of the things on the list that possibly relate to my character, he's usually the oppisite of what they consider a Mary Sue.

That's it! My Mary Sue's actually are Anti-Mary Sue's!

"Behold! I am become Anti-Mary Sue! The destroyer of FanFiction!" :D
Ummm....if your character is an "anti-Mary Sue" than it cannot be a Mary Sue by definition. A Mary Sue is more than just a self-insert, it's an uberified self-insert.


Anyways, a Mary Sue test for original fiction lies here
The Name

+ Is the character named after you (this includes your first, middle, and last names, and any nicknames or online names you use)? [20 points]

+ Is the character's name an unusual spelling of a more common word or name? [3 points]

+ Is the character's name a noun or adjective not normally used as a name? [2 points]

+ Does the character's name contain unnecessary hyphens, apostrophes, or other punctuation? (e.g. M'chelle, Gloria-Angelica, etc.) [4 points]

+ Does the character have more than one first, middle, or last name, without reason? [3 points]

+ Does the character have a name you really, really like? [1 point]
+ Is it Raven? [3 points]
+ Is it a variation of Raven? [1 point]
+ Is it Hunter? [5 points]

+ Does the character's name describe her/his personality? (e.g. Tristan means sad, Darcy means dark, Charity means charity, etc.) [1 points]

+ Is the character's name just generally unusual in relation to the time or place where she/he lives or grew up? [1 point]

+ Does the character have a nickname or pseudonym? [1 point]
+ Is it a "dangerous" nickname (e.g. Death Dealer, Crimson Fury, etc.)? [3 points]

+ Is the character's name foreign, even though the character isn't? [1 point]
+ Is it an Asian name? [2 points]

+ Does the character have a name or nickname that corresponds to a mythological/literary/historical/etc. figure (e.g. Venus, Faustus, Bonaparte)? [1 point]


Appearance

+ Does the character appear to be much younger than she/he really is? [3 points]
[Only add 1 point if the character is immortal.] [1 point]

+ Is the character highly attractive? [3 points]
[Add only 1 point if the character has to work really hard to maintain her/his physical beauty.]

+ Are one or more other characters attracted to her/him? [1 point]
+ Even though they are involved with someone else? [1 point]
+ In defiance of sexual orientation? [4 points]

+ Is an otherwise chaste or stoic character immediately attracted to her/him? [3 point]

+ Does the character have an unusual eye color, or otherwise exceptional eyes? [3 points]
+ And are these eyes a color that does not occur in nature? [1 point]
+ And will they have something to do with the plot? [2 points]

+ Does the character have eyes that somehow reflect hidden depths or experience or sorrow? [4 points]

+ Does the character have an appearance unsuited to the time or place (e.g. perfect hair prior to the invention of shampoo, a woman wearing pants in 1805, etc.)? [3 points]

+ Does the character get a disproportionate amount of physical description compared to the rest of the characters? [2 points]

+ Does the character have unusual or exceptional hair, or does her/his hair get a disproportionate amount of description compared to that of the other characters? [3 points]

+ Is the character a fashion plate (this applies to any style of dress, from preppie to goth to Western to Elvish, and so on)? [2 points]

+ Does the character dress in a manner you find particularly attractive, sexy, or cool? [1 point]
+ Even though it's illogical for the character to dress this way (for monetary reasons, for instance, or because it interferes with her/his job)? [3 points]

+ Is the character ever described as "thin enough to be anorexic," where this is intended as a compliment? [1 point]

[Subtract 3 points if the character is over 20 and appears much older than she/he really is.]

[Subtract 3 points if the character is overweight for the full duration of the story. "Buxom" does not count.]


Character

+ Does the character have a clone or identical twin? [7 points]
[Add only 1 point if there are a large number of clones in your story, and your character is neither the original nor above average in prowess.]

+ Is the character of above average intelligence? [1 point]
+ Is she/he a genius? [1 points]

+ Is the character related to royalty or nobility? [4 points]

+ Is the character rich or well-to-do, although she/he doesn't work? [1 points]

+ Is the character heir to a large fortune? [1 points]
+ The sole heir? [1 points]

+ Is the character the last surviving member of a family/clan/race/species/etc.? [2 points]

+ Was the character ever the sole survivor of a calamity? [4 points]

+ Was the character ever estranged from her/his family/tribe/country/etc.? [1 points]

+ Was the character ever forcibly banished from her/his family/tribe/country/etc.? [3 points]

+ Does the character have amnesia? [4 points]
+ And does she/he still retain a trinket of some kind from her/his past? [4 points]
[Subtract 1 point if the character never remembers any of what she/he has forgotten.]

+ Is the character a minority, a woman, or a member of a lower caste, who succeeds or makes a contribution in spite of her/his social disadvantage? [3 points]

+ Does the character have an angsty childhood, or an angsty past? [1 point]
+ And does she/he angst about it during the story? (Angsting does not necessarily include simply relating events to an interested third party.) [2 points]

+ Does the character have angst in the present? [1 point]

+ Was the character an illegitimate birth? [1 point]

+ Was the character ever abducted? [1 point]

+ Was the character abandoned by her/his caregivers? [2 point]

+ Was the character born into slavery, or forced into slavery or prostitution? [1 point]

+ Was the character born/raised in extreme poverty? [1 point]

+ Did the character run away from home? [1 point]

+ Did the character ever suffer physical or emotional abuse [2 points]

+ Did the character ever suffer sexual abuse [2 points]
[Add another point if it was rape.]
[Add another point if it was incest.]

+ Does the character feel guilty about something terrible that happened in the past? [1 point]
+ Even despite overwhelming evidence that it wasn't her/his fault? [2 points]

+ Does the character consider her/his beauty/talent/skill/etc. a curse? [3 points]

[Subtract 2 points if the character is a protagonist but ever freely, willingly, and knowingly worked for the villain/evil regime.]


More on Character

+ Is the character unusually accomplished for her/his age/species/etc.? [2 points]

+ Is the character fluent in more than two languages? [1 point]
+ More than four languages? [2 points]

+ Has the character traveled extensively? [1 point]

+ Does the character collect things you consider intellectual or cultured? [1 point]

+ Does the character have a faithful pet or animal familiar? [1 point]
+ That isn't a dog, cat, horse, or bird? [3 points]

+ Is the character educated despite living in a time or place where education is not widespread? [2 points]
[Add another 2 points if the character is not a scribe, monk, priest, scholar, etc.]

+ Is the character consistently irreverent or radical, without repercussions? [1 point]

+ Does the character ever easily learn a difficult skill (e.g. learn to play guitar in a matter of weeks)? [3 point]

+ Does the character have an amazing singing voice? [1 point]

[Subtract 3 points if the character has ever fairly lost in any kind of duel, fight, or competition against someone of equal or lesser ability, and the winner was not the character's rival.]

+ Does the character play a musical instrument well? [1 point]
+ Is it guitar? [1 point]
+ Bass? [1 point]
+ Violin? [1 point]
+ Flute? [1 point]
+ Piano? [1 point]

+ Does the character use a katana or any other Asian weapon [1 point]
+ Despite being of non-Asian heritage? [3 points]

+ Does the character "just know things"? [5 points]

+ Does the character have an accent relative to her/his country of residence? [1 point]

+ Does the character have a major quirk or habit in common with you (e.g. drinks the same brand of soda as you, talks to pets the same way you do, etc.)? [2 points]

+ Does the character have a physical handicap that does not hinder her/him significantly? [6 points]

[Subtract 4 points if the character is significantly physically handicapped.]

[Subtract 10 points if the character is significantly mentally handicapped.]

+ Do animals or children instinctively like the character? [3 points]

[Subtract 1 point if the character is a smoker.]

[Subtract 2 points if the has a dependency or addiction that is or would be very hard to break (e.g. alcoholism, drugs, gambling, sex addiction, a potentially dangerous sexual fetish, etc.)]
[Subtract another point if the character never overcomes this vice.]

[Subtract 2 points if the character has a significant personality flaw (e.g. she/he is a spoiled brat, is horribly judgmental or biased, is irrationally violent, is naive and easily manipulated, etc.)]
[Subtract another point if these flaws persist until the character's death, OR subtract another 2 points if these flaws persist beyond the end of the story.]
[Subtract another 2 points if these flaws get the character in serious trouble (e.g. she/he gets fired, gets killed, gets someone else hurt, etc.)]

+ Does the character have a special birthmark or other marking? [4 points]

+ Does the character have a physical "flaw" that does not actually detract from her/his beauty (e.g. lips too full, white strip in hair, missing one toe, etc.)? [2 points]

+ Does the character have wings (this counts even if she/he is an angel, only has wings sometimes, can't fly, etc.) [10 points]

[Subtract 1 point for each of the following that applies to the character:
She/he remains in a committed relationship for the full duration of your story.
She/he has a child or children for the greater part of your story.
She/he does not learn from major mistakes.
She/he has very little or no empathy for other people.
She/he is selfishly manipulative or sadistic (e.g. threatens self-harm, lies, blackmails, etc. in order to get her/his way).]


Work and Play

+ Is the character astonishingly good at something that is not her/his profession? [1 point]

+ Does the character have any particular skill at which she/he the best or among the best? [2 points]
+ And is she/he widely knows for this skill? [2 points]

+ Does the character have any particular area of study/information/etc. in which she/he is the most knowledgeable or among the most knowledgeable? [2 points]
+ And is she/he widely known for having this knowledge? [2 points]

+ Is the character the sole or last practitioner of a particular martial art or magic? [3 points]

+ Is the character one of only two practitioners of a particular martial art or magic, in a master/student relationship? [3 points]
+ Does the other practitioner die during the course of the story? [2 points]

+ Does the character hold your job? [2 points]

+ Does the character hold your dream job? [3 points]

+ Is the character a female in a role not suited for women in the place/time period (e.g. a female cop before 1900, a female soldier in the US army before 1970, etc.)? [5 points]

+ Is the character a male in a role not suited for men in the place/time period (e.g. a male geisha, a coy young seamstress boy, etc.)? [5 points]

+ Is the character a secret agent? [1 point]
+ A double agent? [2 points]
+ And wears high heels or leather? [5 points]

Is the character, or was she/he ever... (add points for all that apply)
+ A model? [1 point]
+ A rock star? [2 points]
+ A stage actress/actor? [1 point]
+ A film actress/actor? [2 points]
+ A dancer? [2 points]
+ A cop? [1 point]
+ A ninja? [2 point]
+ A pirate? [2 point]
+ An alchemists? [1 point]
+ A bounty hunter? [2 points]
+ A mercenary? [1 point]
+ An assassin? [1 point]
+ A thief or pickpocket? [2 points]
+ An outlaw or member of organized crime? [2 points]
+ A diviner? [1 point]
+ A hero? [2 points]
+ A starving artist? [2 points]
+ A freelance writer? [1 point]
+ A freelance reporter? [1 point]
+ An explorer? [2 points]
+ A pro-athlete? [1 point]
+ A gymnast? [1 point]

[If your character exists in an otherwise normal universe, add 2 points to her/his score for *each* of the following abilities that your character possesses (with or without the aid of charms, spells, etc.). If, however, possession of these abilities is considered normal in your character's universe, add only one point each.]
+ Teleportation
+ Telepathy
+ Telekinesis
+ Pyrokinesis
+ Prophecy
+ Healing
+ Animal communication
+ Empathy
+ Shapeshifting abilities
+ Invisibility
+ Invulnerability
+ Flight
+ The ability to pass through matter
+ General magic or sorcery
+ Time travel
+ Transdimensional travel or communication
+ Photographic memory
+ The ability to see auras
+ Summoning
+ Power of seduction
+ The ability to shrug off minor wounds
+ The ability to kill people with her/his bare hands
+ Super strength or speed
+ Skill in martial arts or hand-to-hand combat
+ Sharp-shooting
+ Sleight of hand
+ Computer hacking

+ Does the character share more than one of your hobbies or interests? [1 point]
+ And is she/he better at these hobbies or more knowledgeable about these interests than you are? [2 points]

+ Does the character excel in a field you wish you excelled in? [1 point]

+ Does the character have the same taste in music as you have? [1 point]
+ In books? [1 point]
+ In movies? [1 point]
[Add another 5 points if you said yes to all three.]

+ Does the character have what you consider better or more refined taste than you have in music? [1 point]
+ In books? [1 point]
+ In movies? [1 point]

+ Does the character have the same religious or spiritual beliefs as you? [2 points]
[Subtract 3 points if her/his beliefs are radically different from yours for the full duration of the story.]


Immortals, Gods, Fay, etc.

(This section only applies if your character is immortal, or of a species other than human.)

+ Is the character a vampire? [5 points]

+ Is the character an elf? [5 points]

+ Is the character a shinigami? [5 points]

+ Is the an angel or fallen angel? [10 points]

+ Is the character old, even by the standards of her/his race? [3 points]

+ Is the character exceptionally powerful, even by the standards of her/his race? [3 points]

+ Is the character exceptionally beautiful, even by the standards of her/his race? [3 points]

+ Was the character present at more than one earthly historical event? [5 points]
+ Because she/he instigated it? [3 points]

+ Was the character ever the inspiration for classical art, poetry, etc. (e.g. she was the Mona Lisa, or Shakespeare wrote a sonnet for her)? [8 points]

+ Is the character the only immortal or non-human in the story? [3 points]

+ Was the character made immortal, etc., by divine intervention? [1 point]

+ Is the character a crossbreed of species (e.g. half-vampire, half-demon, etc.)? [2 point]
[Subtract 3 points if one of these species is goblin, slime monster, etc.]
+ And does the she/he have the benefits of both species? [3 points]
+ And the drawbacks of neither? [5 points]
[Subtract 3 points if the character has no benefits from either species.]

+ Does the character angst about being immortal? [2 points]

+ Does the character angst about being a vampire? [3 points]


High School

(This section only applies if your character is currently attending high school or middle school.)

+ Is your character top of her/his class? [2 points]

+ Is the character president or head of a school organization or group (e.g. head cheerleader, first-chair violin, editor of the school paper, class president, etc.) [2 points]

+ Is the character on a sports team? [1 point]
+ Is she/he the team captain? [1 point]
+ The star player? [1 point]
+ From her/his very first time playing? [3 points]

+ Is the character in the play? [1 point]
+ Does she/he have the lead role? [1 point]
+ Despite having never been in drama class before? [2 points]

+ Does the character give the winning or star performance in a school event (e.g. battle of the bands, debate, a sports game, a spelling bee)? [1 point]
+ Is this success totally unexpected? [2 point]

+ Is the character bullied for her/his sexual orientation, skin color, intelligence, poverty/wealth, looks, clothes, background, etc.? [2 points]
+ Is it because the bullies are jealous? [3 points]
+ Do the bullies eventually see the error of their ways, or else receive some form of retribution? [2 points]

+ Does the character ever beat up more than two bullies at the same time? [5 points]

+ Is the character part of a clique that you consider cool (e.g. goths, punks, ravers, skaters, etc.)? [2 points]
+ And does the character actually refer to her/himself as a part of said clique? [3 points]

+ Does the character rap? [1 point]

+ Is the character in a band (not including a school band or orchestra)? [1 point]
+ Is she/he the lead singer? [2 points]
+ Does she/he write all the band's songs? [2 points]
+ Is the band good enough to go professional? [2 points]

+ Does the character have a boyfriend or girlfriend who is out of high school? [4 points]

+ Does the character keep a notebook of poetry? [1 point]
+ Is the poetry "good enough to be published"? [3 points]
+ Does a love interest find this poetry book and begin to understand the character? [5 points]
+ Or does an antagonist find this poetry book and use it against the character? [4 points]
+ Do any poems written by the character actually appear in your story? [1 point]
+ Does the poetry contain any of the following words: crimson, soul, darkness, love, vampire, glass, moonlight, serpent, rose, dance, winter, flame, cold, goddess, blood, angel, star, forever? [1 point per word]

+ Does the character have her/his own credit card and/or large amounts of disposable income? [2 points]

+ Do the character's parents have a special or glamorous job of which the character reaps the benefits (e.g. her/his parents design video games, so she/he gets games before they are officially released)? [3 points]

+ Does the character have a tattoo or body piercing? [1 point]

+ Does the character frequently get drunk or do drugs without repercussions? [1 point]

+ Does the character use Japanese words in conversation, although she/he does not live in Japan? [2 points]

+ Does the character talk about anime frequently or have lots of anime clothes, collectibles, etc.? [1 point]
+ Does the character have a pet named after an anime character? [1 point]
+ Does the character draw really well in the anime style? [1 point]


The Plot

+ Has everyone significant heard of the character? [2 points]

+ Do all of the important characters end up liking/respecting/fearing her/him? [3 points]
+ Did they all like/respect/fear her/him from the beginning? [1 point]
[Subtract 2 points if everyone liked the character at first, but ends up disliking her/him by the end of the story.]

+ Is the character repeatedly rivalled by the same person? [3 points]

[Subtract 1 point if the character's problems continue after the end of your story without hope of respite (i.e. she/he neither dies nor gets a happy ending).]

+ Is your character a member of The Resistance or a band of freedom fighters? [1 point]
+ Is your character the leader or a lieutenant of The Resistance or a band of freedom fighters? [2 points]

+ Does the character suffer punishment for a crime she/he did not commit? [2 points]

[Subtract 2 points if your character ever willfully commits rape or murder.]

[Subtract another 2 points if the character goes to prison for the crime.]

+ Does the character reform a villainous character? [3 points]
+ And does the villain become evil again after the character dies or leaves, but retain some last vestige of goodness from his/her interaction with the character? [2 points]

+ Does the character fall in (reciprocated) love with, or have sex with, a character you would like to fall in love with or have sex with? [3 points]

+ Is the character someone you would like to fall in love with or have sex with? [3 points]

+ Does the character effect a major change in her/his love interest to make said love interest a more appropriate partner? [3 points]

+ Has the character ever been nursed back to health from serious injuries by a warm, kind, and loving person? [3 points]
+ Was this person the character's love interest? [2 points]

+ Does the character die a romantic death (e.g. suicide, execution, battle wounds, broken heart, etc.)? [2 points]

+ Does the character die in her/his beloved's arms? [3 points]

+ Does the character's beloved die in her/his arms? [3 points]

+ Does the character sacrifice her/himself for love, or so that two other characters can be together? [4 points]

+ Have you ever written a fight scene in which you described with needless extravagence everything your character did? [2 points]
+ Was this scene inspired by a movie, show, or game? [2 points]
+ Did you actually reference the movie, show, or game (e.g. "He jumped up and hung in the air, like Neo in The Matrix"? [15 points]


Your Character and You

+ Do you draw the character, or ask other people to draw her/him for you, more often than any of your other characters? [2 points]

+ Did you base the character on your favorite previously existing character or person? [4 points]

+ Is the character someone you would want to be friends with, assuming she/he would be receptive to friendship with you? [1 point]

+ Would you be very surprised if someone did not like the character? [1 points]

+ Do you take any negative feedback about the character as a personal affront? [4 points]

+ Is the character a mouthpiece for your own beliefs or views? [3 points]

+ Do you have a character journal for her/him? [4 points]

+ Do you ever wish you could be like the character? [4 points]

Finished? All right, tally up your points. Here are the scores:

0-10 points: The Anti-Sue. Your character is the very antithesis of a Mary-Sue. Why are you even taking this test?

11-20 points: The Non-Sue. Your character is a well-developed, balanced person, and is almost certainly not a Mary Sue. Congratulations!

21-35 points: Borderline-Sue. Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work.

36-55 points: Mary-Sue. Your character needs some work in order to be believable. But despair not; you should still be able to salvage her with a little effort. Don't give up.

56-70 points: Ьber-Sue. You've got one hell of a Mary-Sue on your hands here, and it's not going to be easy to set things right. But do your best. There may be hope for you yet.

71 points or more: Irredeemable-Sue. You're going to have to start over, my friend. I know you want to keep writing, but no. Just no.

Again, keep in mind that the test isn't always correct. Morpheus from the Sandman Comics scored nearly 70 points, and yet we don't believe he's a Mary-Sue. He's well developed, suffers the consequences of several major personality flaws, and has very few powers or talents besides those necessary to perform the duties of his station. Of course, research, an interesting story, and good writing always help too. ;)
We hope this test has been some help to you. If you're looking for suggestions on how to avoid Mary-Sues and create original, developed characters, you might want to read this essay on Mary-Sueism, or the Occasionally Asked Questions about halfway down Dr. Merlin's Mary-Sue Litmus Test. Best of luck!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Pcm979
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Post by Pcm979 »

Inquisitor Pater Novum lands a handy 10 on the test. Most of those points were garnered from physically modelling him on a more arse-kicking version of myself, but I only did that because I'm lazy. 8)
Last edited by Pcm979 on 2005-09-11 04:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
Norseman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1666
Joined: 2004-07-02 10:20am

Post by Norseman »

fgalkin wrote:
Anomie wrote:
Norseman wrote:I think that a lot of Mary Sue tests fall into the trap of looking for self-insertion, and inserting new characters into existing universes. If your character does neither then he or she won't show up on their scales
That's just it, my character is a self-insert and put into a pre-existing universe.

But my guy is almost an anti-Mary Sue, with instead of being the focus of the story, he's one of several main characters, and instead being beloved by all, he's initially feared, and only gain's a grudging respect by the end of the story. Most of the things on the list that possibly relate to my character, he's usually the oppisite of what they consider a Mary Sue.

That's it! My Mary Sue's actually are Anti-Mary Sue's!

"Behold! I am become Anti-Mary Sue! The destroyer of FanFiction!" :D
Ummm....if your character is an "anti-Mary Sue" than it cannot be a Mary Sue by definition. A Mary Sue is more than just a self-insert, it's an uberified self-insert.


Anyways, a Mary Sue test for original fiction lies here


Well I ran the test on Allan Whitcomb and here's what I got:

+ Are one or more other characters attracted to her/him? [1 point] (Strictly speaking Diana Westley is a character)

+ Does the character dress in a manner you find particularly attractive, sexy, or cool? [1 point] (Military uniforms and 19th Century clothing yah!)

+ Is the character of above average intelligence? [1 point]
+ Is she/he a genius? [1 points]
(Last part is arguable but he's quick on his feet so I'll err on the side of caution)

+ Is the character rich or well-to-do, although she/he doesn't work? [1 points]
+ Is the character heir to a large fortune? [1 points]
(Keeping these two since, quite frankly, he wouldn't have to work if he didn't want to, and of course he is almost gentry so...)

+ Is the character unusually accomplished for her/his age/species/etc.? [2 points]
(Well he IS a highly trained Special Forces soldier...)

+ Is the character fluent in more than two languages? [1 point]
+ More than four languages? [2 points]
(Well yeah, as a Gentleman & a Officer he speaks Greek, Latin, French, English, and Spanish)

+ Has the character traveled extensively? [1 point]
+ Does the character collect things you consider intellectual or cultured? [1 point]
(Both come from being an Officer)

+ Does the character ever easily learn a difficult skill (e.g. learn to play guitar in a matter of weeks)? [3 point]
(Learning to blend in with the Azhistanis should definately qualify).

[Subtract 1 point if the character is a smoker.]
(Like a chimney, like most men in his country)

[Subtract 2 points if the character has a significant personality flaw (e.g. she/he is a spoiled brat, is horribly judgmental or biased, is irrationally violent, is naive and easily manipulated, etc.)]
(Arrogance would qualify, he is also a bigot and an elitist)

+ Is the character astonishingly good at something that is not her/his profession? [1 point]
(Well yes he has quite a few skills, in the attempt to be a Renaissance gentleman).

+ Is the character a secret agent? [1 point]
(Well d'uh!)

Is the character, or was she/he ever... (add points for all that apply)
+ An assassin? [1 point]
(Well he is a Mage Hunter so he qualifies)
+ An explorer? [2 points]
(Plot of the first story resolved around being an explorer).

[If your character exists in an otherwise normal universe, add 2 points to her/his score for *each* of the following abilities that your character possesses (with or without the aid of charms, spells, etc.). If, however, possession of these abilities is considered normal in your character's universe, add only one point each.]
+ Skill in martial arts or hand-to-hand combat
+ Sharp-shooting
+ Sleight of hand
(Once more he's a soldier and a spy)

+ Does the character share more than one of your hobbies or interests? [1 point]
+ And is she/he better at these hobbies or more knowledgeable about these interests than you are? [2 points]

+ Does the character excel in a field you wish you excelled in? [1 point]

+ In books? [1 point]
(Presumably... since I like books set in his era)

+ Does the character have what you consider better or more refined taste than you have in music? [1 point]
+ In books? [1 point]

(Gee does a 19th Century Gentleman have more refined taste than me... tough question!)

+ Does the character have the same religious or spiritual beliefs as you? [2 points]
(Close enough for government work).

[Subtract 2 points if your character ever willfully commits rape or murder.]

28 Points placing him well and truly within the following area:

21-35 points: Borderline-Sue. Your character is cutting it close, and you may want to work on the details a bit, but you're well on your way to having a lovely original character. Good work.
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Post by Anomie »

fgalkin wrote:Ummm....if your character is an "anti-Mary Sue" than it cannot be a Mary Sue by definition. A Mary Sue is more than just a self-insert, it's an uberified self-insert.
My guy is a uberified self-insert. By the end of the story, he is more powerful than any of the gods of ancient myth.

The difference with my story apparently is that he isn't angsty, he isn't loved by all, he isn't the only one with these abilities, etc. Most of the things on the two lists either don't apply to him or he is pretty much the polar oppisite of.
fgalkin wrote:Anyways, a Mary Sue test for original fiction lies here
The answer I got on this original fic test is actually a more acurate than the one I got for the crossover test. I scored a 67 on this one. I'm an Uber-Sue, as I should be.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Pcm979 wrote:Inquisitor Pater Novum lands a handy 10 on the test. Most of those points were garnered from physically modelling him on a more arse-kicking version of myself, but I only did that because I'm lazy. 8)
It depends on how you count inquisitor skills and psi powers. You can rack up a lot of points if you score them as secret agent assassins and compare them against ordinary 40K humans or only a few if you compare against other inquisitors. Which just goes to show the self-admitted limitations of the point scoring.
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Markus Delgado scores a nice 13 on the original fiction test. Cheers fgalkin.
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Post by WyrdNyrd »

The definition of "Mary Sue" seems a bit vague, and hard to pin down. It's kind-of a "I'll know it when I see it". A full definition includes many points/tests, and you think you can simplify it to just a sentence or two, if you try, but you just can't.

It's like the definition of "wank" as used on this board: It started out as one thing, grew to cover several related activities, and now is difficult to pin down in just a sentence or two, yet everyone pretty-much knows the feel of the idea.

I'm rambling again, I need more coffee...
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Post by Molyneux »

Ford Prefect wrote:Cheers fgalkin. AS it turns out, Markus Delgado scores a hefty 2 by this test.
Markus Delgado? Any relation to Hoss?
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Not unless Hoss lives in the eighth millenium.
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Post by Darth Fanboy »

GNOME HUNTER Darth Fanboy scores somewhere between 90 and 100%
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Post by Enigma »

David Hallowell, the main character of my novel scores a 25 on the old Mary Sue test.
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