"Some People say"

[Stravo]

If you saw OutFoxed the documentary about the Fox News channel and an analysis of how they twist the news to suit their agenda you know what I'm talking about - if you haven't see it please do as it will make you realize just how over the top they are even more so with the behind the scenes nonsense.

Anyway Fox is most particularly guilty of this but I've seen it in some other news outlets. Whenever a reporter wants to get a certain POV across or wants to confront someone without being too confrontational himself he'll start out a question like this

"Some people say that the Democratic party is imploding under Dean's leadership."

Just ONCE I'd like someone to respond "What people, Sean?" "Who is saying that?"

Journalism is about using sources to verify information. "Sources in the White House say John Dean is an ass." as opposed to "Some People say John Dean is an ass."

Once the media starts getting away with this nonsense - and I do believe at this point its already happened - they can just plug their own views in there and no one will challenege them "Some people say George Bush should be president for life." "Some people say Blacks need to go back to Africa." Seriously this trend is so disturbing yet no one in any media outlet addresses this. No one seems to give a shit that journalists are no longer reporting news, they are conveying opinions.

[Frank Hipper]

Stravo, a lot of people are happy with opinions being presented as news.
Start a thread on Fox News at a board with a mixed membership, and these people will come out in droves and say how great it is that someone won't report negatively on the Bush administration.

[SirNitram]

8-Bit Theatre Offers It's Thoughts.

Some people say it's the funniest use of NES graphics ever!

[Lord Zentei]

Anyway Fox is most particularly guilty of this but I've seen it in some other news outlets. Whenever a reporter wants to get a certain POV across or wants to confront someone without being too confrontational himself he'll start out a question like this

"Some people say that the Democratic party is imploding under Dean's leadership."

Just ONCE I'd like someone to respond "What people, Sean?" "Who is saying that?"

That would be "Them", as in "They say", the People in the "Community".

And yes, this is an irritating goddamned brainbug.

[RedImperator]

MrAnderson's flameout has been split and moved to Parting Shots.

[Rogue 9]

Well, was going to offer him some emergency advice, but too late now. Buh bye.

Anywho, though I'm not in the White House, I'll volunteer to say that John Dean is an ass. I mean, the man can't seem to do anything but slam the Republican Party even when he doesn't really have grounds. What was the latest, saying that they all look the same or something like that? *Fetches Newsweek.* Ah yes. "The Republicans are not very friendly to different kinds of people. They're a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same, and they all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party." Mmkay. The GOP deserves it's fair share of knocks, but I know a good number of black, Hispanic, etc. Republicans who would take major issue with Chairman Dean's statement. Not to mention the sheer irony of following a criticism of "not very friendly to different kinds of people" with an attack on another kind of person, a kind of person, moreover, that he claims to be attempting to draw into the Democratic Party. Let me know when he does something positive besides raising money from MoveOn through his loud mouth.

And to get back to the topic, yes, the whole "some people say" thing is just retarded. I tend to stop paying attention when that phrase is used, along with citing anonymous sources without at least saying what agency/whatever said sources are in.

[SirNitram]

Well, was going to offer him some emergency advice, but too late now. Buh bye.

Anywho, though I'm not in the White House, I'll volunteer to say that John Dean is an ass.

This John Dean is fascinating. Is he in any way related to Howard Dean, head of the Democratic National Convention, well known for his impassioned speeches and battlecries?

[Xon]

Well, was going to offer him some emergency advice, but too late now. Buh bye.

See the thread linked from his parting shots thread. If that wasnt insta-ban material I dont know what is.

And to get back to the topic, yes, the whole "some people say" thing is just retarded. I tend to stop paying attention when that phrase is used, along with citing anonymous sources without at least saying what agency/whatever said sources are in.

The real cute bit is, with these "anonymous sources" you cant even be guarantied that they even exist. With the constituionally protected right to lie and call it news, "anonymous sources" is a call phraze for saying what ever the fuck they want.

It real is disturbing how Fox news tramples reporting standards into the group.

[Stravo]

Well, was going to offer him some emergency advice, but too late now. Buh bye.

Anywho, though I'm not in the White House, I'll volunteer to say that John Dean is an ass.

This John Dean is fascinating. Is he in any way related to Howard Dean, head of the Democratic National Convention, well known for his impassioned speeches and battlecries?

Don't be so hard on him, I made the same mistake in my OP.

[SirNitram]

Well, was going to offer him some emergency advice, but too late now. Buh bye.

Anywho, though I'm not in the White House, I'll volunteer to say that John Dean is an ass.

This John Dean is fascinating. Is he in any way related to Howard Dean, head of the Democratic National Convention, well known for his impassioned speeches and battlecries?

Don't be so hard on him, I made the same mistake in my OP.

So, have you met John Dean? Does he also engage in berserker cries?

[Rogue 9]

Dammit. *Smacks self with cluestick, then hands to Stravo.* Don't throw me off like that!

[Stormbringer]

I think a lot of the problem results from the fact that the cable news networks have made punditry and op-ed peices equivalent to real news. The worst examples like this all come from those programs and most of the networks now spend at least as much time on them as actual reporting. These shows are not treated as journalism when it comes to the standards for honest, accuracy, or worthwhile content but they're presented right along with the news, even treated as newsworthy. But in most cases they're just two or more hardcore politicos arguing, with all the (in)accuracy that implies.

[HemlockGrey]

Jon Stewart actually did this. He had some Republican senator on pre-election who pulled out the old "Kerry and Edwards are the first and fourth most liberal Senators" and Stewart asked him where he got that information from. "Groups" said the Senator. "What groups?" asked Stewart. "Groups that rate them." "Yes," says Stewart, "WHAT groups?" "Groups of lawyers, watchdogs..." "WHAT GROUPS?" Eventually Stewart pushed him into a corner, and then pulled out the name of the group which rates Senators and showed that Kerry and Edwards are not, in fact, the most liberal senators in the nation. It was great.

[Flagg]

I think the biggest problem with corprorate news networks is the fact that they are corporate news networks, and exist only on the condition that they generate income for whatever corporation they are owned by. If they can get viewers by covering every pretty white girl that goes missing, that's what they are gonna do, even if it means ignoring real news stories, like the Downing Street Minutes, or a bunch of GI's getting killed in a single day.

[Joe]

So, have you met John Dean? Does he also engage in berserker cries?

Actually, there is indeed a John Dean. A Cabinet bureaucrat of some significance during the Nixon administration who went on to be one of the chief witnesses against Nixon.

[SirNitram]

So, have you met John Dean? Does he also engage in berserker cries?

Actually, there is indeed a John Dean. A Cabinet bureaucrat of some significance during the Nixon administration who went on to be one of the chief witnesses against Nixon.

So, in essense, it's all Nixon's fault?(Yes, I'm being silly)

[Joe]

So, in essense, it's all Nixon's fault?(Yes, I'm being silly)

Yes, absolutely. That is exactly it.

In all fairness, though, Hannity does indeed have a point, sort of. DNC fundraising has dropped considerably under Dean; in the first quarter of 2005 alone, the DNC raised less than half of the 32 million the RNC took in in the same period. This is too big of a disparity to simply be explained by the fact that Dean hasn't yet developed the chops to be the really effective fundraiser that the DNC needs for him to be. There does indeed appear to be a lack of confidence in Dean's leadership amongst many of the DNC's major donors. Hannity was probably overstating the severity of the situation but if the cash gap continues to widen it'll mean serious trouble for the Democrats.

[Durandal]

So, in essense, it's all Nixon's fault?(Yes, I'm being silly)

Yes, absolutely. That is exactly it.

In all fairness, though, Hannity does indeed have a point, sort of. DNC fundraising has dropped considerably under Dean; in the first quarter of 2005 alone, the DNC raised less than half of the 32 million the RNC took in in the same period. This is too big of a disparity to simply be explained by the fact that Dean hasn't yet developed the chops to be the really effective fundraiser that the DNC needs for him to be. There does indeed appear to be a lack of confidence in Dean's leadership amongst many of the DNC's major donors. Hannity was probably overstating the severity of the situation but if the cash gap continues to widen it'll mean serious trouble for the Democrats.

It's the obvious result of siding with those uppity women and fags. God has cut off the Democrats' cash flow.

[Julhelm]

Using the "Some people *verb* blablabla" formula has the obvious benefit of always being 100% true.

"Some people say that the moon landing was faked" = 100% true.
"Some people think Hitler was the new Messiah" = 100% true.
"Some people say aliens have infiltrated the UN" = 100% true.

etc etc...

[Crown]

"Some people say that the Democratic party is imploding under Dean's leadership."

Just ONCE I'd like someone to respond "What people, Sean?" "Who is saying that?"

HA! Margret Thatcher did that very same thing once to an Oz journalist. He started off a long the lines off;

"Some people say that you are too strickt, and - " Oz Journalist gets cut off at this point.

"Who? Who says this?" Mrs T demands. "I want their names!"

The journalist would later recall that this was the most scariest moment of his adult life, never mind that this opinion was being plastered all over the press at the time, from the BBC to print media in Oz, so it wasn't as if he was making it up, but just Thatcher's reaction scared the piss out of him.

[Darth Wong]

"Some people say" is faux-news language for "I'm a dishonest cowardly little shit so I won't state my opinion as my own opinion, but instead, I'll pretend that I heard it somewhere and I'm just relaying it to you for feedback."

[The Grim Squeaker]

One of the Discworld book's ("Jingo" i think) has Vimes flaming the some people theory.

Its amazing that people can do this on an national news service.