Why vote for Kerry?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-09-29 06:01pm

Ok Kerry fans, I want to hear why I should vote for your man. The issues have been completely covered thus far by the negative campaigning. I want to hear a logical, supported argument as to why I should vote for Kerry. I don't want a bunch of anti Bush crap, (like the current case for Kerry thread) I want to know why I should support that particular man to be president. What has he done for me, what can be garunteed that he will do for me, etc.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-29 06:20pm

Ender wrote:I don't want a bunch of anti Bush crap, (like the current case for Kerry thread)

Other than that, Mr. Bean.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-29 06:57pm

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... crickets..............

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-09-29 07:04pm

hmm. . . . .well, he does supposedly have a good healthcare plan. . . .other than that i'm having trouble finding any reasons beyond 'he's not bush'.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-29 07:10pm

This is another thing I find disturbing about US politics. Kerry has made a lacklustre attempt at shooting down Bush's campaign, focusing more on his military record that many don't seem to care about now given Bush didn't serve anyway. He's also not really set out any clear cut goals for his administration. I may not be someone about to vote for a new gov't come November, but I do keep up with politics abroad and I can't for the life of me think of any real reasons to vote Kerry over Bush other than "he's not Dubya", though I assume that's as good a reason as any for most here.

Has there been any substance to his campaign or is this all now a game of how much dirt you can dig up on the other guy and screw the whole efficient gov't thing?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-09-29 07:15pm

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-29 07:24pm

I like his stance on health care and social issues and I believe that he is going to have a better foreign policy agenda then the previous administration. I'm not naive enough to think he's going to pull out of Iraq on his first day of office, but I do believe that he isn't going to actively alienate our allies and drive nations that are hostile towards us even further away.

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-09-29 07:53pm

One thing I AM curious about-- why do people assume that the European Allies will embrace John Kerry as President and immediately step up to bat at the War on Terror?

The European countries that declined to assist in the Iraq war did so for their own reasons-- not for some simple minded reason such as a personal dislike for GW Bush. Why would the European react any different when Kerry goes to them, hat in hand? They'll turn him down as surely as they did GW, and then what? I doubt that we'd even get any more sympathey from them, and we'd probably still be at an icy impasse with folks like France and Germany.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-09-29 07:54pm

I believe that Kerry will work towards making the United States less hated worldwide. I also expect that, were he to be elected, we'd end up in Iraq for a shorter time than otherwise.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-29 07:57pm

Coyote wrote:One thing I AM curious about-- why do people assume that the European Allies will embrace John Kerry as President and immediately step up to bat at the War on Terror?

The European countries that declined to assist in the Iraq war did so for their own reasons-- not for some simple minded reason such as a personal dislike for GW Bush. Why would the European react any different when Kerry goes to them, hat in hand? They'll turn him down as surely as they did GW, and then what? I doubt that we'd even get any more sympathey from them, and we'd probably still be at an icy impasse with folks like France and Germany.

I don't think that they would, but that doesn't mean that he won't improve our relations with our European allies, which is a very good thing even if they don't help worth a damn in Iraq.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-09-29 08:24pm

The Kernel wrote:
Coyote wrote:One thing I AM curious about-- why do people assume that the European Allies will embrace John Kerry as President and immediately step up to bat at the War on Terror?

The European countries that declined to assist in the Iraq war did so for their own reasons-- not for some simple minded reason such as a personal dislike for GW Bush. Why would the European react any different when Kerry goes to them, hat in hand? They'll turn him down as surely as they did GW, and then what? I doubt that we'd even get any more sympathey from them, and we'd probably still be at an icy impasse with folks like France and Germany.
I don't think that they would, but that doesn't mean that he won't improve our relations with our European allies, which is a very good thing even if they don't help worth a damn in Iraq.

Though it brings up the question what will he do about Tony Blair who has pissed off his own party and his country in order to back up President Bush on the War on Terror issue

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-29 08:28pm

Mr Bean wrote: Though it brings up the question what will he do about Tony Blair who has pissed off his own party and his country in order to back up President Bush on the War on Terror issue

Actually, Blair might be the easiest of all to deal with. Blair is taking a lot of flack back in the UK for his support of the US, but he can't back out now for fear of looking weak. If Kerry comes up with a totally revised strategy for Iraq, Blair could look a lot better to his people by going along and saying that it was a LOGISTIC problem he had with Bush's handling of Iraq and not a moral one. This would play well with the people of the UK and the fact that it was Kerry behind the plan and not Bush wouldn't hurt either.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-29 09:00pm

Kerry can book Blair the first flight on the VSS Enterprise and then personally push him out of the airlock, sans-spacesuit.

He's be doing the British people a great service.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-29 09:47pm

The Kernel wrote:I don't think that they would, but that doesn't mean that he won't improve our relations with our European allies, which is a very good thing even if they don't help worth a damn in Iraq.

I don't see France and Germany as allies.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-30 02:19am

There are several reasons to vote for Kerry. He and Edwards were my first two picks in the primaries. But first, any election is about comparisons between candidates. Naturally, anyone who prefers Kerry to Bush (or vice versa) does so not only because of his or her candidate's strong points, but the other candidate's shortcomings. Clinton won as much for Bush's bad policies, ineptitude and corruption as his own strengths.

Anyway, why I'm voting for John Kerry:

1) Kerry's public life has been clean as a whistle. No kickbacks, no deferred compensation from companies getting no-bid contracts, nothing. He was the founder and co-owner of a successful bakery in Boston, but sold it when he ran for the Senate, saying the people's business came first. Aside from an arrest for civil disobedience, there has never been a hint of misconduct from Kerry.

2) Not only has Kerry been above board in personal, business and political matters, but as a prosecutor, Lieutenant Governor and Senator, he has a very good track record of rooting out corruption. His exposure of BCCI and the Contra/ Cocaine plots helped shut down a bank that laundered money for mass murderers, and a guns-for-blow scheme. This is not only a credit to Kerry in the late 1980-early 1990s, but would come in handy today when fighting Al-Queda, the Taliban and others.

3) Kerry will not fuck up Social Security.

4) Kerry will not turn national parks into strip mines or gas stations.

5) Kerry will not appoint neo-cons and Israeli agents to public office.

6) Democrats usually handle fiscal matters better than Republicans. In the last 60 years, the federal budget has been balanced three times -by Truman, Johnson and Clinton. Kerry will try to balance the books instead of cooking them.

7) Kerry is widely respected throughout the world -or at least is not a complete laughingstock.

8 ) In order to break up cells of bombers, kidnappers, beheaders (if that's a word) and other thugs requires cooperation with other countries. Kerry will do a better job at getting other countries to cooperate because he knows it's not a good idea to insult others, then demand their aid.

9) Stem cell research and reproductive freedom will have a better chance under Kerry.

10) No right-wing crank judges from Kerry. No white supremacists, no fascists, no supporters of torture will be offered up for the federal bench.

11) It won't take Kerry an extra seven minutes to finish My Pet Goat. *

12) Kerry has courage -and I'm not just talking about combat in Vietnam. Kerry has shown a willingness to take up unpopular causes. Ones that not only would bring him opposition, but vilification, personal attacks and even the hostility of Nixon's "Plumbers". Anyone who makes Richard Nixon's, H.R. Haldeman's and Charles Colson's shit lists is OK in my book. Anyone who earns the pathologically obsessive hatred of Ollie North, Ted Sampley, John "Wig" O'Neil and the Shit Boaters is, too.

13) Kerry will try to do something about runaway medical costs, and not by fucking over victims of malpractice and effectively denying them the ability to sue, which is Dubya's solution.

14) No White House counsel working for Kerry will ever try to excuse torture. No Kerry-appointed Attorney General will argue before the SCOTUS that he has a right to "disappear" people like the Generalissimos of Chile, Argentina, Paraguay and other mini-Reichs did in the 1970s.

TO BE CONTINUED...

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2004-09-30 02:37am

Why vote Kerry?

-I believe that by merely replacing Bush with any new leadership is already one step forward; we can restore our image and relations with the rest of the world

-I prefer Kerry's stance on gay issues over Bush's any day

-I prefer Kerry's secularism to Bush's questionable-crossing-the-line-of-state-and-church

-I'm pro stem cell research and would like to see the doors on stem cell fully opened

-I don't think Kerry can do any worse than Bush can on the war on terror

-I strongly am opposed to the Bush administration's attitudes toward large corporations (ie Halliburton)

-it angers me that no one in the current administration is being held accountable for any mistakes

-I disapprove of the current administration's views toward science

-I don't believe that punishing schools will solve education problems; many of those schools that are being punished are the urban schools because they lack money and support. By closing down schools, you only shift the burden elsewhere.

-And lastly, I think that any leader should be someone who is articulate, intelligent, and stands up under pressure...all of which President Bush has yet to demonstrate to me

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-01 12:45pm

There has yet to be a substantiative answer to Coyote's question.

Arguing that Europe will like John Kerry because he is not George Bush just doesn't cut it.

Somebody either needs to either explain how Bush has irrepairably damaged our relationships with long-time allies, or why Kerry would be certain to secure support for actions that Europe pledged not to support even before Hans Blix was sent to Iraq.

Even before there was any controversy whatsoever, our traditional Cold War allies swore to abstain. How will Kerry change this?

Frankly, it seems to me that if you think Kerry will change anything, you're voting for a President just so Europe won't occassionally laugh at us while it's sitting at the dinner table. That's just stupid.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-01 12:51pm

Axis Kast wrote:There has yet to be a substantiative answer to Coyote's question.

Arguing that Europe will like John Kerry because he is not George Bush just doesn't cut it.

You know, I think it actually might.

Somebody either needs to either explain how Bush has irrepairably damaged our relationships with long-time allies, or why Kerry would be certain to secure support for actions that Europe pledged not to support even before Hans Blix was sent to Iraq.

Even before there was any controversy whatsoever, our traditional Cold War allies swore to abstain. How will Kerry change this?

Perhaps having more of an open mind and not seeing everything as black and white? Bush didn't have a middle-ground. It was either you're with us or against us as he so famously said. Kerry I can see respecting nations like Spain to hold out and only help when a true reason presents itself and not some half-minded intel. report.

Frankly, it seems to me that if you think Kerry will change anything, you're voting for a President just so Europe won't occassionally laugh at us while it's sitting at the dinner table. That's just stupid.

I don't think Americans really care about what Europe thinks and nor should they for the most part because Bush has practically slammed the door on most of the continent. Kerry will open it if he plays his cards right and garner some additional support for this unwinnable WoT Bush started. Kerry doesn't have to magically get the world to accept America like a naughty boy that has forced an apology out, he just needs to show that the gov't isn't going to be as arrogant and one-track minded as it has been lately.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-01 12:53pm

Axis Kast wrote:Arguing that Europe will like John Kerry because he is not George Bush just doesn't cut it.

The poll numbers show that Europe overwhelmingly does like John Kerry because he is not George Bush. This is not a hypothetical; it is consistently revealed in every poll of Europeans taken by any organization.

I know you have a fondness for your party line over inconvenient things like "facts", but this particular head-in-the-sand maneuver is pretty horrendous even for you.

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2004-10-01 01:02pm

Let's face it, Kerry is not the best choice. I can think of a half dozen people who would both win the election and have the balls to really get something done in office. Kerry is, at best, going to have to fight tooth and nail for every single change against a Republican congress.

But let's face another point: Bush failed. I would vote for anyone at this point who A. Had their heart in the right place and B. Could win. I'd vote for Big Bird if I thought he could beat the shrub. Is this the way it should be? Is that what the founding fathers thought of when they decided that we could choose our leaders? Hell no. But a choice between the lesser of two evils is all we've got.

On a more positive note, at least Edwards is in there. The guy announced his candidacy on the Daily Show, for christ's sake. Value's aside, the fact that the guy actually owed a favor to Jon Stewart is totally awesome.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-10-01 03:41pm

Beowulf wrote:
The Kernel wrote:I don't think that they would, but that doesn't mean that he won't improve our relations with our European allies, which is a very good thing even if they don't help worth a damn in Iraq.
I don't see France and Germany as allies.

More like rivals. Especially France. Not Enemies, but not really friends either.

As for Kerry the only things i find acceptable are his relative secularism, and his command of the English language. Other than that.... blah.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-01 04:01pm

Representing himself as an easygoing guy willing to brook differences of opinion won’t help Kerry woo any new troop commitments from Europe. You seem pretty content on ignoring the fact that France, Germany, and the other European nations most against this war pledged even before it had started to remain little more than observers on the sideline. But those facts don’t jive with your characterization of Bush. You claimed that he pushed a receptive Europe into a reversal of opinion. But that’s at least a misstatement and at worst an outright lie. “Old” Europe was already refusing to send troops even while its intelligence agencies were feeding us assessments agreeing that Saddam had WMD.

As for what Americans think about European approbation, you’re dead wrong. It’s a huge issue for many people. Unfortunately, most of them see it as a popularity contest of sorts. But Europe is not a barometer for American successes; we can’t determine our own needs by looking at European opinions. It’s one thing to argue that we need to consult with, hear the opinions of, and include our allies if possible. It’s another to say that every time they take a different stance, we need to reevaluate our priorities because something’s obviously wrong.

The poll numbers show that Europe overwhelmingly does like John Kerry because he is not George Bush. This is not a hypothetical; it is consistently revealed in every poll of Europeans taken by any organization.

I know you have a fondness for your party line over inconvenient things like "facts", but this particular head-in-the-sand maneuver is pretty horrendous even for you.

Cut the bullshit, Wong. You know what I'm talking about.

Europe can clap all it wants if Bush leaves office; they'll jump on Kerry just as fast once he begins throwing up trade barriers. And they'll sure as hell turn him down when he comes calling for more troops in Iraq. They turned down Bush before he even asked - at a time when they were agreeing that Saddam had those weapons.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-10-01 05:51pm

Do we have to allow Axis to deface and destroy this thread too?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-01 06:22pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Do we have to allow Axis to deface and destroy this thread too?

He's the resident jester and whether you enjoy it or not, I like knowing there's someone this easy to mock openly. Don't you find it fascinating that someone can be so gullible and not have given his Internet connection away for magic beans yet?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-01 09:07pm

That's the best you people can do?

Come now; I figured you'd at least try to redeem your argument.

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