First Contact Scenerio Between SG-1 & the Galactic Empir

[Techno_Union]

What is the most likely first contact scenerio between the Galacitc Empire and SG-1? Lets say an Imperial Star Destroyer discovers a wormhole to the Milky Way Galaxy and appears in orbit around Earth, how would SG-1, Asgaurd, Goa'uld, Nox, Tollan, and whatnot respond to an Imperial Star Destroyer? And how would the ISD respond?

Lets also say that the Empire would be able to send renforcements through the wormhole.

Empire: At their height, also with all their super-weapons.

Milky Way Galaxy: All empires and what not at their height with all super-weapons they have ever possesed.

[NecronLord]

SG-1: O'neill : Cool.
Carter: Wow.
O'neill : You gentlemen all seem very nice, and all seem human. Now here's an idea, there's these very unpleasant snake out there who like to enslave humans, and I was wondering, would you have anything to say to them?

Asgard : They'd probably take some tips in personal weapons from the Empire. Given the number of 'Replicators aboard ISD' threads 'round here that end up with the bugs getting owned.

Goa'uld : Shit a brick. Well, a Pyramid building block.

Nox : Don't care.

Tollan : Keep out of its way.

How would the ISD respond : I suspect the Goa'uld would be rather rapidly owned. Though of course, this may be a case of 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' for the Tau'ri.

[Lancer]

What is the most likely first contact scenerio between the Galacitc Empire and SG-1? Lets say an Imperial Star Destroyer discovers a wormhole to the Milky Way Galaxy and appears in orbit around Earth, how would SG-1, Asgaurd, Goa'uld, Nox, Tollan, and whatnot respond to an Imperial Star Destroyer? And how would the ISD respond?

Lets also say that the Empire would be able to send renforcements through the wormhole.

Empire: At their height, also with all their super-weapons.

Milky Way Galaxy: All empires and what not at their height with all super-weapons they have ever possesed.

ohh, ancient-outpost defensive weapons screw over anything (pretty strangely), so Earth is safe.

Asgard have huge speed advantage over the Galactic Empire (cross between galaxies in 6 hrs), have the "go-somewhere gun". Also has pretty decent firepower & shields (enough to hold their own, and the O'Neill's are nice). Also have localized time-distortion tech, which can be used to trap vessels in stasis (not a go back in time & change things cop-out).

Goa'uld get screwed. Period.

Ancients, if they were to fight, for some odd reason, would win because they simply can't be hurt unless they de-ascend.

[Alyeska]

cross between galaxies in 6 hrs

Try minutes.

[Lancer]

cross between galaxies in 6 hrs

Try minutes.

with the X-303 in tow, it was a few hours. Otherwise, it's minutes.

[Xon]

Ancients, if they were to fight, for some odd reason, would win because they simply can't be hurt unless they de-ascend.

The Ancients (non-Acended versions, before their Fall), could over whelm the GE via pure economic might. This doesnt take into consideration their Uber technologies.

With the Acended Ancients, the GE just might as well call it a day before they even start.

Interesting factiod: Every piece of Ancient Technology depicted on the show has been a Plot Device(often reusable to boot!)

[Luzifer's right hand]

ohh, ancient-outpost defensive weapons screw over anything (pretty strangely), so Earth is safe.

The Ancient weapon ignored the gua'old shield. The damage inflicted on Anubis ships did not destroy it until the weapon destroyed the reactor.
To assume that the ancient weapon is able to penetrate shield and hull of the ISD seems far-fetched.

[Lancer]

ohh, ancient-outpost defensive weapons screw over anything (pretty strangely), so Earth is safe.

The Ancient weapon ignored the gua'old shield. The damage inflicted on Anubis ships did not destroy it until the weapon destroyed the reactor.
To assume that the ancient weapon is able to penetrate shield and hull of the ISD seems far-fetched.

It caused minor damage to Anubis's fleets while passing through the physical matter but it sought out the reactor.

[The Prime Necromancer]

SG-1: O'neill : Cool.
Carter: Wow.
O'neill : You gentlemen all seem very nice, and all seem human. Now here's an idea, there's these very unpleasant snake out there who like to enslave humans, and I was wondering, would you have anything to say to them?

Let's not forget that Star Wars exists in the SG-1verse. While O'Neill and co. may attempt to point the Empire in the direction of the Goa'uld, they're going to know that the Empire is a brutal, authoritarian regime run by a cruel, power-hungry Sith Lord. They're also going to know what they're in for, which while preferable to living under the Goa'uld (where they'd be slaves), it's still not a good situation. I imagine they'd contact the Asgard, brief them on just what kind of threat they're looking at, and ask for some help sealing the wormhole (if possible. The Asgard do have some experience with monkeying around with space-time after all). Let's just hope that for their research they read the SG-1verse's Darth Wong's site, rather than their Darkstar's site.

[Techno_Union]

Well since the Empire could easily build a couple thousand ISDs in a few short months at their height, I see no reason they would not use a large force like that to fend off an attack. Not to mention they could use super-weapons like the galaxy gun, death star, sun crusher, ect to deal a crippling blow to someone in the Milky Way Galaxy.

[Techno_Union]

BTW, if possible can an admin or moderator correct the Empir in my thread to Empire. Thanks

[NecronLord]

Let's not forget that Star Wars exists in the SG-1verse. While O'Neill and co. may attempt to point the Empire in the direction of the Goa'uld, they're going to know that the Empire is a brutal, authoritarian regime run by a cruel, power-hungry Sith Lord. They're also going to know what they're in for, which while preferable to living under the Goa'uld (where they'd be slaves), it's still not a good situation. I imagine they'd contact the Asgard, brief them on just what kind of threat they're looking at, and ask for some help sealing the wormhole (if possible. The Asgard do have some experience with monkeying around with space-time after all). Let's just hope that for their research they read the SG-1verse's Darth Wong's site, rather than their Darkstar's site.

Firstly I'd assume that they have no knowledge of Star Wars, just for the sanity of it.

Actually, all the evidence points to the Empire not being that bad really. Certainly all it's atrocities are miniscule compared to its total population, and would in our terms be equivalent to the govenment occasionally shooting someone. Yes, even Alderann.

[Stofsk]

Actually, all the evidence points to the Empire not being that bad really. Certainly all it's atrocities are miniscule compared to its total population, and would in our terms be equivalent to the govenment occasionally shooting someone. Yes, even Alderann.

That raises an interesting point. Are atrocities only atrocities when a sizeable quanitity of suffering takes place? Do the 10 people who die in a terrorist attack count less than the 100 that die in another terrorist attack? Or is one death more than enough?

[NecronLord]

a·troc·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-trs-t) n. pl. a·troc·i·ties
1 - Appalling or atrocious condition, quality, or behavior; monstrousness.
2 - An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners.

Nope. Still an atrocity - however, given that it was a time of Civil War, (Opening Crawl, ANH) the Northern US' crushing of the South makes the antics at Alderann and places look positively puny. The Empire is a lot harder to call very genocidal than people imagine.

[Crom]

Nope. Still an atrocity - however, given that it was a time of Civil War, (Opening Crawl, ANH) the Northern US' crushing of the South makes the antics at Alderann and places look positively puny. The Empire is a lot harder to call very genocidal than people imagine.

Bear in mind that the movies were also pro-Rebellion slanted in opinion. We may never get a fully objective view of the Empire, and the great stability it brought to the galaxy.

[Lonestar]

Nope. Still an atrocity - however, given that it was a time of Civil War, (Opening Crawl, ANH) the Northern US' crushing of the South makes the antics at Alderann and places look positively puny. The Empire is a lot harder to call very genocidal than people imagine.

As opposed to the complete lack of atrocities on the Southern side?

[HemlockGrey]

I think he just meant that relatively more people died in the US Civil War than in the Galactic Civil War.

Are there any hard stats on Asgard tech? Because from what I remember of Go'ould weapons, its in the megatons. Admittedly I'm not a regular viewer but if the Asgard tech is much, much higher, wouldn't they simply crush the Go'ould themselves?

[Xon]

I think he just meant that relatively more people died in the US Civil War than in the Galactic Civil War.

Are there any hard stats on Asgard tech? Because from what I remember of Go'ould weapons, its in the megatons. Admittedly I'm not a regular viewer but if the Asgard tech is much, much higher, wouldn't they simply crush the Go'ould themselves?

Its a case of they just have the numbers and generally have been involved in other matters(Replicators etc). Also their weaponary doesnt look to be based on brute strength. There is a reason their primary weapon is called the 'go elsewere' beam by the fans.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

Nope. Still an atrocity - however, given that it was a time of Civil War, (Opening Crawl, ANH) the Northern US' crushing of the South makes the antics at Alderann and places look positively puny. The Empire is a lot harder to call very genocidal than people imagine.

Bear in mind that the movies were also pro-Rebellion slanted in opinion. We may never get a fully objective view of the Empire, and the great stability it brought to the galaxy.

Oh come on now, it's obvious that they are the bad guys in the story no matter what spin you put on it. They're the obvious evil in the story, it's what they're there for. Seriously, I don't know why you people try putting a good spin on the Empire, I've seen it before, and it still makes no sense to me.

[Crom]

Oh come on now, it's obvious that they are the bad guys in the story no matter what spin you put on it. They're the obvious evil in the story, it's what they're there for. Seriously, I don't know why you people try putting a good spin on the Empire, I've seen it before, and it still makes no sense to me.

Obviously evil no matter what spin you put on it? Come on, you're selling spin doctors short.

I'm probably not the best to try and explain the good spin Empire. I'll just summarize that they brought stability and peace to a majority of the universe, following a very turbulent era marked, most notably, by an extremly ineffectual government. Notice that the NR that follow the Empire was also marked by its inability to deal with serious problems...

[The Prime Necromancer]

Like EoD, I find the tendency to dismiss or justify the Empire's crimes simply because there are so many sentients in the SW galaxy confusing and slightly disturbing.

You cannot simply say that since the Empire has (presumably) quadrillions of sentients that it is OK that they eradicate an entire planet of at least millions and probably billions of their own people. The current population of China is approximately 1.3 billion. During the Tiananman Square massacre, unbiased sources (meaning not the Chinese government) put the number of civilian casualties at between 7000 and 10000 people. Now that is a *tiny* percentage of their population, but I don't see anyone on this board defending them. The bottom line is you cannot regard sentient life in the same way that you regard, say, potatoes. And may I say that I would not want to live under any government that does so.

But what makes the destruction of Alderaan so horrific to me is not primarily the huge loss of sentient life (and it *is* huge, no matter what you claim), but the situation that existed and the reasons behind taking this action. It truly shows the Empire's utter disregard for the value of sentient life. It has never been my understanding that Alderaan had declared itself independent from the Empire and announced it had joined the Rebellion (just days earlier Leia had still been an official member of the Imperial Senate, and the lack of any blockade around Alderaan when the Death Star arrives makes me highly skeptical of any claims of secession). Rather, the situation was that Viceroy Organa, certain members of his government, and presumably other important, powerful people such as higher-ups in Alderaanian corporations and whatever Alderaanian defense force might have existed had Rebel sympathies and were using their resources to provide shelter to Rebel operatives and funnel money, supplies, and possibly military equipment to the Alliance. The average Alderaanian probably had their own opinions of the Alliances: some, even many may have been Rebel sympathizers, while others would have considered themselves staunch Imperial supporters. But almost none of them would have had any idea what actions the Viceroy was taking.

Now, let us draw a modern parallel. Let us say that, for whatever reason, the mayor of Chicago is a supporter of Al-Quaida, and that he and other members of the city council have been using Treasury money to fund Al-Quaida actions. One day, his daughter, a U.S. Senator, is linked to known Al-Quaida operatives through certain phone calls she has placed. Now, what should (and presumably would) be done is that a major investigation would be placed, many of Chicago's officials would be arrested and charged with high treason, and if it is discovered that terrorist sympathizers infest the entire population of the city the Illinois National Guard would be mobilized and martial law declared. *That* would be reasonable.

But Dubya is fed up. He's decided that he needs to put fear into the hearts of any internal enemies or potential internal enemies of America. So, in order to learn the location of major Al-Quaida cells, VP Cheney threatens the mayor's daughter with the total destruction of Chicago by nuclear strike, unless she capitulates and gives them the information they wish to know. She makes up a story in order to buy time and to forestall its destruction. However, it is decided that an *example* must be made, and raining nuclear fire on terrorist cells far from home is not a strong enough message to the people and particularly the high officials of the States and cities of America that this behavior will not be tolerated. So the birds fly.

Do you find something... er, wrong with that scenario? Admittedly, it's not a perfect parallel (and the idea that an American mayor or a sizeable population of an American city could be Al-Quaida sympathizers is rather ludicrous). But that is essentially the situation. Tarkin (who wasn't even in his jurisdiction; he was Grand Moff of Oversector Outer, and Alderaan is in the Core) did not destroy Alderaan because he felt it threatened the Empire in any way; it was not an operation with a military objective. It was an act of terror; an attempt to cow the Empire's own population into obedience. I question the amount of "stability" the Empire provided when they have to build superweapons not to *protect* their people from outside forces, but to make certain their own population fears them and doesn't get out of line. That's like the U.S. nuclear capability not being built up as a nuclear deterrent towards other nations, but *exclusively* for making certain the South doesn't rise again. For heaven's sake, we didn't even use our nuclear capabilities in invading Afghanistan or Iraq! Do you believe that in the absence of any worries about international opinion that the U.S. would be perfectly justified in simply glassing the entirety of those two countries?

Your Civil War parallel is flawed. Alderaan is not the equivalent of, say Atlanta (which was also an atrocity, despite my overwhelmingly pro-Union stance). It is the equivalent of a city in one of the so-called "Border States." They never actually seceded, but a good percentage of their populations had Southern sympathies, and some of their leaders did try to support the South, or even preach secession. And do you know what Lincoln did? Exactly what I outlined three paragraphs ago; moved in the army, arrested the leaders, suspended the writ of habeus corpus, and declared martial law. That is reasonable. What Lincoln *didn't* do is burn the capitol of Kentucky to the ground and slaughter the population to the last man because he wanted to show the other cities in the border states what would happen to them if they crossed him. If he had done that, Lincoln would have been as bad or worse a tyrant as some Confederate apologists like to make him out to have been.

Now there may be some obscure bit of EU lore that claims that Alderaan was to a person violently pro-Rebel and mooned the Emperor, declared their independece, and dared the Imperial Fleet to try to retake them. In which case I'll have one more reason to curse the EU. However, may I remind you that the EU also outlines many other atrocities the Empire committed: alien slavery, political purges and disappearances, the dismantling of the civilian Holonet, and especially the Tarkin Doctrine. Sorry, but any government that operates under a doctrine of rule through fear is *not* a good or stable government, no matter what you say. Even without the EU, assuming the Empire used typical police state tactics is hardly a stretch; I challenge you to name any dictatorial regime which has not used force, fear, secret police, propaganda, censorship, and political imprisoning in order to keep ahold of its power. Once again, do you like the idea of living in Soviet Russia or Communist China?

Nope. Still an atrocity - however, given that it was a time of Civil War, (Opening Crawl, ANH) the Northern US' crushing of the South makes the antics at Alderann and places look positively puny. The Empire is a lot harder to call very genocidal than people imagine.

Who said they were genocidal? They are not going out of the way to kill people, they just don't give a damn about the rights of sentients, or about how many people they need to kill in order to keep in power. Nazi Germany was genocidal. Soviet Russia wasn't. Doesn't mean I'd want to live in either of them.

Bear in mind that the movies were also pro-Rebellion slanted in opinion. We may never get a fully objective view of the Empire, and the great stability it brought to the galaxy.

Funny how everyone seems to ignore suspension of disbelief when in comes to presenting the Empire in a bad light. Or how people like to claim "Rebel propaganda" in the EU, despite the fact that it's supposed to be canon unless contradicted.

I'm probably not the best to try and explain the good spin Empire. I'll just summarize that they brought stability and peace to a majority of the universe, following a very turbulent era marked, most notably, by an extremly ineffectual government. Notice that the NR that follow the Empire was also marked by its inability to deal with serious problems...

Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

For those of you who actually read this rant, I applaud you. This one has been in the works for a *very* long time.

[Xon]

For those of you who actually read this rant, I applaud you. This one has been in the works for a *very* long time.

I agree with practically all of that rant.

I think the biggest problem is the government(s) which followed the GEs fall (the fact that the empire fell apart practically overnight indicates how fragile that 'stability' was) are utter idiots.

Can you honestly say that you would want to live under the near criminal incompetence of the NR? They went from a totalitarian military dictatorship to a civilian peace loving government which was practically demilitarized overnight.

Social ideologies do not and can not change that fast on that scale. There are just too many people involved.

[The Prime Necromancer]

I think the biggest problem is the government(s) which followed the GEs fall (the fact that the empire fell apart practically overnight indicates how fragile that 'stability' was) are utter idiots.

Admittedly, I know little about the NR, as I avoid most of the EU like the plague simply because of the descriptions I keep hearing of the NR government colletively being idiotic peaceniks. When I said, "one more reason to curse the EU" the stupidity of the NR was already a reason.

But however stupid the NR is does not justify the Empire's actions in any way. The Empire *needed* to fall; the fact that the Rebellion High Command was apparently a bunch of short-sighted morons who not only didn't have a plan to rebuild but also had never heard the adages "In times of peace you must prepare for war," and "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty," doesn't take away from that fact.

Can you honestly say that you would want to live under the near criminal incompetence of the NR? They went from a totalitarian military dictatorship to a civilian peace loving government which was practically demilitarized overnight.

Social ideologies do not and can not change that fast on that scale. There are just too many people involved.

As I said, my knowledge of the incompentence of the NR is limited, so I cannot truly say which I would rather live in. But I hope to whatever god or gods that may or may not exist that I never have to make the choice between living under a fascist dictatorship or an incompetent near-anarchy.

[The Prime Necromancer]

And may I also say you make a good point about the fragility of the Empire. It seems another thing people like to forget is that Palpatine put the Empire together so that it would fall apart without him. Really stable, that.

[NecronLord]

Actually the status of Alderann as a system being pro or anti Empire is rather more questionable than you imagine. Senator Bail Organa signed, on behalf of Alderann, the 'Declaration of Rebellion' (A document that contained the words:
"To fight and oppose you and your forces, by any and all means at our disposal.
To refuse any Imperial law contrary to the rights of free beings.
To bring about your destruction and the destruction of the Galactic Empire." Sounds like a declaration of war to me...) against the Empire.

Alderann had seceeded from the empire, and it was armed, and commited to attacking the Empire.

In which case I'll have one more reason to curse the EU.

Indeed you do. As for the other EU claimed atrocities, I'll get around to them, but one thing to remember is that they are almost always only mentioned in direct speech by a rebel.