The Saints vs. The Buffy-verse

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The Saints vs. The Buffy-verse

Post by Durandal » 2004-02-28 03:43pm

Okay, here's the scenario. In Buffy season 4, episode 16, "Who Are You," a gang of vampires holds a church hostage for an extended period of time. Connor, Murph and Il Duce are in the church when this happens. The brothers are armed (remember, they bring their weapons into church) with their standard movie iron (akimbo Colt .45's, I think they were), and Il Duce has his shotgun.

No, Connor doesn't have his rope.

They have about 10 minutes before Riley gets to church late and realizes that it's been taken hostage at the beginning of the ceremonies. They're compelled not to wait around for the authorities. They're in California for whatever reason, which means that there's a nation-wide man-hunt going on for them. However, they're also not compelled to simply flee and leave the parishioners at the mercy of the three vampires. They don't really know that these guys are vampires, so using a stake won't occur immediately to them, if ever.

So, they have to kill the three vampires and get out before the authorities knew they were there. However, they also have about 15 minutes before Faith in Buffy's body arrives on the scene and starts kicking ass. They don't know she's on her way, but when she arrives and starts killing things, they can try and make an escape at that point.

How does this play out?

EDIT: Changed the thread title, since it's the brothers plus their father, not just the brothers.
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Re: The Saints vs. The Buffy-verse

Post by Crom » 2004-02-28 04:47pm

Durandal wrote:Okay, here's the scenario. In Buffy season 4, episode 16, "Who Are You," a gang of vampires holds a church hostage for an extended period of time. Connor, Murph and Il Duce are in the church when this happens. The brothers are armed (remember, they bring their weapons into church) with their standard movie iron (akimbo Colt .45's, I think they were), and Il Duce has his shotgun.

No, Connor doesn't have his rope.

They have about 10 minutes before Riley gets to church late and realizes that it's been taken hostage at the beginning of the ceremonies. They're compelled not to wait around for the authorities. They're in California for whatever reason, which means that there's a nation-wide man-hunt going on for them. However, they're also not compelled to simply flee and leave the parishioners at the mercy of the three vampires. They don't really know that these guys are vampires, so using a stake won't occur immediately to them, if ever.

So, they have to kill the three vampires and get out before the authorities knew they were there. However, they also have about 15 minutes before Faith in Buffy's body arrives on the scene and starts kicking ass. They don't know she's on her way, but when she arrives and starts killing things, they can try and make an escape at that point.

How does this play out?

EDIT: Changed the thread title, since it's the brothers plus their father, not just the brothers.
Wait a minute, do the Saints get to have God on their side? If so, they stand a chance against the Vampires, otherwise it seems like hand guns are some of the least effective weapons to bring to bear against Buffy Vampires.

If they get the usual divine sanction to keep heaven stocked with fresh souls, perhaps they'll be inspired to stake the vampires. It is pretty common in mythology as a way to take out vampires. I've never seen faith being used as a weapon, a la Hamilton's Slayerverse, so I doubt they could depend on their faith to just blast the vampires.

Anyway, they battle the vampires and Faith shows up. Remember: no women, no children. So it's not like they'll try and hurt her. Il Duche might try and knock her out, like he did the FBI agent. They might end up working against their common enemy, and once that is done, the Saints will probably just flee.

That's my take anyway.
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Post by Majin Gojira » 2004-02-28 04:54pm

The only thing those Vamps have to fear is the insane luck of the brothers and their father's shotgun. Sure, it won't kill them, but it'll do a lot of damage.

Not sure is they'd join up with Buffy and co...She's such a stickler for not killing humans...
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Post by Durandal » 2004-02-28 04:57pm

The Saints' uncanny ability to not be killed would probably translate to some sort of protection spell in the Buffy-verse. However, they are not invincible or infallible; Papa Joe's guys nabbed them trying to sneak into his house.

And while vampires may be immortal, they are not impervious to harm. They do have functioning nervous systems, and it is possible to interrupt those functions physically (see Spike and his chip). I see no reason why a vampire wouldn't be knocked out of play from a gun shot to the head, or from multiple repeated gun shot wounds. Glory beat the shit out of Spike, and he certainly wasn't at his physical peak afterward for at least a day.

But let's say that the Saints do get the inspiration to stake these guys. Not implausible; they're highly religious, and they'd probably spot the vampires' fangs. To kill them, they'd have to get close enough to stake them. This would allow the vampires' strength advantage to come into play.
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Post by Demiurge » 2004-02-28 05:17pm

A shotgun hit to the back can slow down a vampire. A shot to the head would do serious damage. Close range probably won't be too much of a problem. We've seen regular people go hand-to-hand against vampires and survive. A weakened one should be a reasonably simple kill.
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Post by Majin Gojira » 2004-02-28 05:45pm

Frankly I'd love to hear the brother's comentary on the situation...
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Post by Durandal » 2004-02-28 05:55pm

After seeing a vampire burst into dust, it'd probably be something like what happened after Rocco killed the cat. "I can't believe that just fucking happened!"
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Post by Keevan_Colton » 2004-02-28 08:21pm

Also, dont forget they've got thier crosses ;)
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Post by Shaidar Haran » 2004-02-28 11:40pm

Demiurge wrote:A shotgun hit to the back can slow down a vampire. A shot to the head would do serious damage.
Remember the first season where Darla tries to do in Angel and Buffy with a pair of .45s, guns will tear up a vampire as effectively as a human. It just won't kill them (though getting their heads emptied with a .45 cal might actually count as much as decapitation).
Demiurge wrote:Close range probably won't be too much of a problem. We've seen regular people go hand-to-hand against vampires and survive. A weakened one should be a reasonably simple kill.
And it's worth noting, that new born vampires aren't really that much better than they were as humans, all bragging aside. A pair of pub brawlers like the brothers should handle most of them easily.

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Post by Xon » 2004-02-29 12:05pm

Demiurge wrote:A shotgun hit to the back can slow down a vampire. A shot to the head would do serious damage. Close range probably won't be too much of a problem. We've seen regular people go hand-to-hand against vampires and survive. A weakened one should be a reasonably simple kill.
A shot gun blast to the torso at close range isnt going to leave much of the said torso.

Added to Buffyverse vampires fasciation with attack one-on-one upto ~five on one, the biggest problem is the shotgun.is going to run out of ammo too fast.
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Post by Demiurge » 2004-02-29 12:20pm

ggs wrote:
Demiurge wrote:A shotgun hit to the back can slow down a vampire. A shot to the head would do serious damage. Close range probably won't be too much of a problem. We've seen regular people go hand-to-hand against vampires and survive. A weakened one should be a reasonably simple kill.
A shot gun blast to the torso at close range isnt going to leave much of the said torso.

Added to Buffyverse vampires fasciation with attack one-on-one upto ~five on one, the biggest problem is the shotgun.is going to run out of ammo too fast.
How close? It's not a good idea to get too close to a vampire.
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Post by ArchMage » 2004-02-29 04:16pm

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Post by Durandal » 2004-02-29 04:36pm

ggs wrote:A shot gun blast to the torso at close range isnt going to leave much of the said torso.
This is true. Vampires in the Buffy-verse can actually be disabled by just about everything that can put down a normal human; it just seems to require more. Spike was incapacitated with electric shocks, for example.
Added to Buffyverse vampires fasciation with attack one-on-one upto ~five on one, the biggest problem is the shotgun.is going to run out of ammo too fast.
His shotgun was fairly small. It might have been able to hold five rounds at the most. And vampires have superior speed and agility, so the problem for the Saints would probably be actually hitting them. They never really shot at moving targets, if you'll remember. They relied heavily on the element of surprise and were just plainly lucky as hell.
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Post by Demiurge » 2004-02-29 04:55pm

Has a vampire ever been shot in the head on either show? I don't think it's ever happened.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2004-02-29 05:16pm

but do they have that boot knife they used to cut the fuckin rope?
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Post by Durandal » 2004-02-29 05:26pm

Demiurge wrote:Has a vampire ever been shot in the head on either show? I don't think it's ever happened.
I don't remember anything like that, no. I assume that he'd be knocked out cold, but the wound would eventually heal so he was up to full capacity again. This of course, assuming that whoever shot him doesn't stake him while he's out.

And yes, we'll say they have boot knives.
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Post by Kon_El » 2004-03-03 03:52pm

My memory of this episode is real rusty. was there anything special about these vampires? did they seem to have been around for a while or were they n00bs?

Xander has held his own on numerous occations aginst unnamed vamps before. no reason to belive the saints wouldnt mop the floor.

the Saints go primarly for headshots. with no evidence of the effects of a headshot on a vampire its hard to say how effective their guns would be. I tend to belive that if a broken back paralized Spike then a .45 to the braincase would drop a vamp for the time being.

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Post by Durandal » 2004-03-03 05:41pm

Kon_El wrote:My memory of this episode is real rusty. was there anything special about these vampires? did they seem to have been around for a while or were they n00bs?
They'd been around for a while. They were pumped up on Adam's pep-talk.
Xander has held his own on numerous occations aginst unnamed vamps before. no reason to belive the saints wouldnt mop the floor.
Of course, Xander knows what to do to kill them. But your point is well-taken.
the Saints go primarly for headshots. with no evidence of the effects of a headshot on a vampire its hard to say how effective their guns would be. I tend to belive that if a broken back paralized Spike then a .45 to the braincase would drop a vamp for the time being.
The Saints take the head shot when their mark is on his knees. Then they say their prayer clean out his skull cavity. However, in fire fights, they shoot for the torso. I don't remember them scoring any head shots in the balls-out fire-fights in the movie; they targeted and hit the torso almost all the time. Any head shots they scored in a fire-fight would've been just lucky, not intended.
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Post by Shaidar Haran » 2004-03-04 10:40pm

They'd been around for a while. They were pumped up on Adam's pep-talk.
That doesn't mean much, he gave them the pep talk just shortly before. I think it's safe to see they were relatively young vampire, certainly no more than a couple years old at most.
Of course, Xander knows what to do to kill them. But your point is well-taken.
And Xander hasn't been in half the fights either of the brothers have.
The Saints take the head shot when their mark is on his knees. Then they say their prayer clean out his skull cavity. However, in fire fights, they shoot for the torso. I don't remember them scoring any head shots in the balls-out fire-fights in the movie; they targeted and hit the torso almost all the time. Any head shots they scored in a fire-fight would've been just lucky, not intended.
They might not go for head shots, but they did how ever nail the mobesters (even the ones going to for cover) while spinning from the ceiling, hung by their ankles. And they did so with minimal prep time on their part. That's a fair peice of a shooting.

And of course Smecker, and FBI agent, calls their shooting good. So if nothing else they'd have to be reasonably competent.

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Post by Durandal » 2004-03-05 12:11am

Shaidar Haran wrote:[That doesn't mean much, he gave them the pep talk just shortly before. I think it's safe to see they were relatively young vampire, certainly no more than a couple years old at most.
I never said that they were empowered; that's just why they were there.
They might not go for head shots, but they did how ever nail the mobesters (even the ones going to for cover) while spinning from the ceiling, hung by their ankles. And they did so with minimal prep time on their part. That's a fair peice of a shooting.

And of course Smecker, and FBI agent, calls their shooting good. So if nothing else they'd have to be reasonably competent.
I'm not saying they're bad shots; I'm saying that head shots are difficult shots, and we've never seen them pull one off on a moving target, much less one with super-human speed and strength.
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Post by Elheru Aran » 2004-03-05 12:22am

Pardon me for being a total newbie, but I'm not familar with this Saints thing.... I take it that they're vampire hunters a la Buffy, but with a different angle or something? Be a help if someone could elucidate for me... then I might be able to contribute... incidentally, from what I've been reading here, I figure the Saints would be able to do right good. Colt .45s are pretty darned powerful, and while they wouldn't stop a vampire most likely, they'd still be able to knock them around... and provided enough magazines, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints would last pretty long, if not actually winning.
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Post by neoolong » 2004-03-05 12:26am

Elheru Aran wrote:Pardon me for being a total newbie, but I'm not familar with this Saints thing.... I take it that they're vampire hunters a la Buffy, but with a different angle or something? Be a help if someone could elucidate for me... then I might be able to contribute...
No. They are two brothers from Boston that believe they've been chosen by God to smite the wicked. They also seem to be quite adept at shooting guns. Especially spinning around on a rope from the ceiling.

They're father has also joined them. He's also extremely badass.

Is the Boondock Saints mentioned in the Announcements? Get enough of the questions about the movie.
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Post by Durandal » 2004-03-05 12:37am

Elheru Aran wrote:Pardon me for being a total newbie, but I'm not familar with this Saints thing.... I take it that they're vampire hunters a la Buffy, but with a different angle or something? Be a help if someone could elucidate for me... then I might be able to contribute... incidentally, from what I've been reading here, I figure the Saints would be able to do right good. Colt .45s are pretty darned powerful, and while they wouldn't stop a vampire most likely, they'd still be able to knock them around... and provided enough magazines, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints would last pretty long, if not actually winning.
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Post by Durandal » 2004-03-05 12:37am

neoolong wrote:Is the Boondock Saints mentioned in the Announcements? Get enough of the questions about the movie.
If it isn't, put in a request with the Fantasy mod to have it added.
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Post by Ghost Rider » 2004-03-05 12:41am

Durandal wrote:
neoolong wrote:Is the Boondock Saints mentioned in the Announcements? Get enough of the questions about the movie.
If it isn't, put in a request with the Fantasy mod to have it added.
Actually if you or someone as knowledgeable wants to just ask...I'll put it as an Annoucement here.
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