Movie Avengers vs Movie Brotherhood of Mutants

[Ted C]

Related to the "Avengers vs X-Men" scenario, but this time using the X-Men villains.

Brotherhood of Mutants (lineup from X-Men)

• Magneto
• Sabertooth
• Toad
• Mystique

Avengers

• Captain America
• Thor
• Iron Man
• Hulk
• Hawkeye
• Black Widow

The mutants are outnumbered, but they've got Magneto.

For fun, we'll have Magneto planning to use his "mutator" device from X-Men to mutate the representatives at the UN. Rogue is already in his custody, but he needs to eliminate the threat of the Avengers before he can use her to implement his plan. The Avengers have tracked him to Ellis Island just in time to try to thwart his plan.

[Ted C]

Addendum: Both sides are reasonably aware of the other's powers. I'm going to take this as reason to assume that Clint will have some non-metallic arrowheads in his quiver. Stark is up the creek, though: there's no time for him to try to make an all-plastic version of the armor.

Thor's hammer is metal, but Magneto's power is subject to the "worthiness" test, so it will resist his efforts.

[Crazedwraith]

Worst comes to worse, Hulk can probably smash enough of the statue of liberty to stop the mutator device, but Rogue would likely be collatoral damage.

Obviously Magneto is going to be a real problem for the Avengers to deal with considering the amount of metal they have. Cap's shield. Iron Man. Hawkeye's bow, Widow's guns are all potential out of play/turned against them. Thor's hammer possibly as well.

If I remember the film correctly though, Magneto intervened only briefly to wrap the X-men with copper. He's got to save his power to give to Rogue. But he also is likely to deal much more harshly with non-mutants.

I'd rate the Avengers as doing better against the Brotherhood members trying to slow them down before they hit Magneto though. They're better HtH combatants and won't have as much trouble with Toad for example. Sabertooth is tough but he wouldn't withstand taking the loki treatment from Hulk. Mystique is a bit of a wild card.


edit: Though the avengers have a couple of members that can fly. And the Quinjet is much more manoeuvrable than the X-jet. They also hav much less need of secrecy. They can potential cut straight to the chase and go for the machine direct. Magneto can probably neutralise Stark. But much less if he or Thor goes directly to get Rogue full throttle.

[Elheru Aran]

The comics are semi variable on Magneto versus Thor's hammer. In a number of incidents he's been able to deflect it but not lift it (Ultimatum doesn't count, fetid pile of shit that it is).

Really the biggest problem for the Avengers is Magneto. Toad is an acrobat with some martial arts skills, the ability to spit sticky goo and a chameleon tongue; but take him off the ground and he's not terribly useful. A good candidate for Iron Man to take down. Sabretooth, at this point in life, is just a brute with big claws and teeth. Mystique will be a lot more difficult given that her shapeshifting ability is quite useful for tactical infiltration. With that she can just fuck the Avengers right and left if she can get into them, although Captain America probably has the upper hand in strength and hand-to-hand combat, as does Thor. She's probably better than Black Widow or Hawkeye, though.

[TheHammer]

What's to stop Magneto from wrapping metal around each avenger, levitating them, and leaving them suspended off the ground?

[Crazedwraith]

What's to stop Magneto from wrapping metal around each avenger, levitating them, and leaving them suspended off the ground?

What was stopping him doing that to the X-Men?

He can't keep them all levitated and give his powers to Rogue.

[Ted C]

If I remember the film correctly though, Magneto intervened only briefly to wrap the X-men with copper. He's got to save his power to give to Rogue. But he also is likely to deal much more harshly with non-mutants.

I think it was more a case of 1) the X-Men are fellow mutants, so he doesn't want to kill them and 2) he has a limited amount of time to put the plan into action, so he doesn't want to waste time.

[Simon_Jester]

Worst comes to worse, Hulk can probably smash enough of the statue of liberty to stop the mutator device, but Rogue would likely be collatoral damage.

Obviously Magneto is going to be a real problem for the Avengers to deal with considering the amount of metal they have. Cap's shield. Iron Man. Hawkeye's bow, Widow's guns are all potential out of play/turned against them. Thor's hammer possibly as well.

I don't think Magneto could control Thor's hammer or turn it against him, but he can probably stop or deflect it. Cap's shield and Iron Man's armor both withstood hits from Mjolnir as I recall, and while there might be some "Cap is worthy" schtick there, Stark sure isn't. So the worthiness test is not applied to use of a tool, weapon, or force to deflect Mjolnir after it leaves Thor's hand.

If I remember the film correctly though, Magneto intervened only briefly to wrap the X-men with copper. He's got to save his power to give to Rogue. But he also is likely to deal much more harshly with non-mutants.

I'd rate the Avengers as doing better against the Brotherhood members trying to slow them down before they hit Magneto though. They're better HtH combatants and won't have as much trouble with Toad for example. Sabertooth is tough but he wouldn't withstand taking the loki treatment from Hulk. Mystique is a bit of a wild card.

Toad would go splat against basically any of the Avengers, including the normals.

Mystique is a threat in the pre-battle setup; the worst she could do during battle is impersonate someone long enough to get the drop on Hawkeye, Black Widow, or Cap. It might work on Hawkeye, probably works on Cap, and almost certainly wouldn't work on Black Widow. She lacks the weapons or powers to do anything meaningful to the heavy hitters.

Sabretooth would be a very, very nasty matchup for the 'merely human' Avengers, but as noted wouldn't be able to go toe to toe with Hulk. Iron Man would go airborne, then repulsor him until he didn't know up from purple, and probably throw one of those tank-busters if he regenerates fast enough to recover from that. Thor might actually be the best match, not because he's weakest but because he'd consider it honorable combat and might be distracted for a while by the entertainment value.

What's to stop Magneto from wrapping metal around each avenger, levitating them, and leaving them suspended off the ground?

Exactly as much as is stopping the Incredible Hulk from busting out of the metal, jumping down to the ground, and ripping Magneto to pieces.

[Elheru Aran]

True; Hulk is the biggest opponent for the Brotherhood to contend with. As long as the Avengers can keep his focus on the Brotherhood, they have nobody but Magneto who can really match him in power level. I suspect that to stop him Magneto would probably have to wrap him with some steel from the Statue of Liberty's frame and throw him across the ocean... thus possibly neutralizing his plan depending on how much power he has to exert.

[Borgholio]

I think it'd take an awful lot of steel to subdue the Hulk...would Magneto be able to get that much steel without compromising the structure of the statue?

[TheHammer]

True; Hulk is the biggest opponent for the Brotherhood to contend with. As long as the Avengers can keep his focus on the Brotherhood, they have nobody but Magneto who can really match him in power level. I suspect that to stop him Magneto would probably have to wrap him with some steel from the Statue of Liberty's frame and throw him across the ocean... thus possibly neutralizing his plan depending on how much power he has to exert.

Wouldn't need to wrap him in steel. How about a steel rod up his Anus? lol

[Tribble]

The Brotherhood gets curb stomped. Hard. All of them but Magneto are virtual non-entities. And Magneto doesn't stand a chance either, even if he didn't have to worry about holding his power in reserve in order to use the machine.

Movie Magneto's powers are a threat because most humans and mutants are fragile, squishy things that are easily pierced by metal. And obviously he has the advantage against metal-based heroes like Wolverine and Iron Man.

But what is he supposed to do against Thor and Hulk's nigh invulnerability and strength? While he may be able to throw metal objects at speeds enough to kill humans, throwing them hard enough to pierce Thor/Hulk's skin is a different matter entirely. Would Movie Magneto be able to throw a metal projectile fast enough and hard enough to actually injure them? Possibly, though based on the feats we've seen so far I doubt it. He could throw cars at them, but that's likely to just slow them down a bit and piss them off. Hell, even if he dropped the Statute of Liberty or the Brooklyn Bridge on them, I doubt it'd do more than stop them momentarily.

As for wrapping them in metal... good luck doing that if both of them rush him at the same time. I highly doubt Magneto could wrap both of them in enough metal to incapacitate them in the time it takes for one or both of them to reach him. And if Thor throws his hammer, Magneto's going to have to with that first before he even gets the chance to switch his attention to them. The best Magneto could hope for is to deflect Thor's Hammer when it's thrown at him... then promptly get punched in the face by either Hulk or Thor himself.

Note that I'm not really bothering with the others because when compared to them Magneto, Thor and Hulk are in an entirely different league. And while Iron Man may come arguably close, Magneto could make short work of him.

[TheFeniX]

Movie Magneto's powers are a threat because most humans and mutants are fragile, squishy things that are easily pierced by metal. And obviously he has the advantage against metal-based heroes like Wolverine and Iron Man.

Considering his display in X2 with some iron from inside a man's body, anyone showing up with even the metal brads and zipper on a pair blue jeans is in for a rough day. So, Thor's hammer is immune? What about his armor? Is it metal?

Also of note is the force he can generate with little balls of metal. Even if he can't pierce Hulk's skin, even a few small bands could keep him immobile.

As for wrapping them in metal... good luck doing that if both of them rush him at the same time.

Previously, he was able to disarm dozens of cops at once and hold them hostage with their own weapons. He has enough of a reaction time with his power to fire a gun, then stop the bullet after it only traveled a few inches.

Any hardware they show up with would likely be instantly disabled, leaving Hulk to swim to the site or hit bottom and jump out. Iron Man is boned and if Thor has any metal on him aside from his hammer, he's going to need to strip down if he wants to get in melee range. This does beg the question on why Magneto didn't just disable the X-1 (he knew they were coming when the fog rolled in) since he can detect metal he can't even see.

Without a flying vehicle, Cap, Black Widow, and Hawkeye are forced to deal with the same issues the X-men did when climbing the Statue. And none of them can smell Mystique.

Honestly, it's over fast either way because Thor can just chunk his hammer at the Magneto-tron and disable it instantly. This may be a problem if Rogue is already strapped in though.

[Elheru Aran]

Movie Magneto's powers are a threat because most humans and mutants are fragile, squishy things that are easily pierced by metal. And obviously he has the advantage against metal-based heroes like Wolverine and Iron Man.

Considering his display in X2 with some iron from inside a man's body, anyone showing up with even the metal brads and zipper on a pair blue jeans is in for a rough day. So, Thor's hammer is immune? What about his armor? Is it metal?

It's metal, but it may be magic/magitech. The hammer is Uru, so magic-metal for sure (neutronium? Who knows). In any case I doubt Thor has much issue with stripping off if it means he gets to kick some ass.

Really the Brotherhood all, with the exception of Magneto, are strictly hand-to-hand combatants. Unfortunately for them that's something four out of the six Avengers are superb at-- Cap, Thor, Hulk and Black Widow. Like I said, Mystique can ninja them, but unless Magneto can stop Hulk or Thor, they lose.

[Enigma]

In the comics, has Iron Man ever faced Magneto?

[Kojiro]

Addendum: Both sides are reasonably aware of the other's powers. I'm going to take this as reason to assume that Clint will have some non-metallic arrowheads in his quiver. Stark is up the creek, though: there's no time for him to try to make an all-plastic version of the armor.

Thor's hammer is metal, but Magneto's power is subject to the "worthiness" test, so it will resist his efforts.

With this condition it's Avengers all the way.

Since they know each others powers...

Stark will hold back in reserve for obvious reasons. Hulk and Thor will go straight for Magneto and it would take everything he's got to keep them off him. One of them need only clip him and he'll be badly wounded. Toad is just... meh. One arrow is the end of his night. So you have Sabertooth and Mystique vs Cap, Widow and Hawkeye. At the least Cap can hold Creed off and good as she is I doubt Raven can stand up to both Widow AND Hawkeye.

Once Magneto is tied up or Stark can make an appearance. Open comms will help identify who is an Avenger and who is Mystique but so would a simple code word. And that's assuming Magneto is holding his own against Hulk and Thor at the same time. If he goes down fast to lightning or mistakenly assumes he can deflect Mjolnir those two join the fight and Stark doesn't bother to show up.

[Elheru Aran]

In the comics, has Iron Man ever faced Magneto?

Bunch of times. Latest one was Avengers vs. X-Men or whatever. Stark uses a carbon-nanotube armour. Funny thing, use extreme enough magnetic fields and you can magnetize carbon nanotubes...

Other stories, he's had little tricks such as being able to reverse the polarity of his armour or whatever... In general, though, he's just not gone up against Magneto very often. Probably due to writers not being able to come up with a work-around that didn't sound too shitty. It really comes down to which one's smarter in that particular match-up.

[Batman]

Movie Magneto's powers are a threat because most humans and mutants are fragile, squishy things that are easily pierced by metal. And obviously he has the advantage against metal-based heroes like Wolverine and Iron Man.

Considering his display in X2 with some iron from inside a man's body, anyone showing up with even the metal brads and zipper on a pair blue jeans is in for a rough day. So, Thor's hammer is immune? What about his armor? Is it metal?

It's metal, but it may be magic/magitech. The hammer is Uru, so magic-metal for sure (neutronium? Who knows). In any case I doubt Thor has much issue with stripping off if it means he gets to kick some ass.

It looks like metal. It might very well be something else and given the way it appeared out of nowhere when Thor became worthy again in 'Thor' it pretty much has to be magitech. And all we know about movie Mjolnir's makeup is that it was 'forged at the heart of a dying star' so Valen alone knows if Magneto can manipulate it at all, and if he can't, he's in really deep doo-doo.
As has already been mentioned, he'd be hard-pressed to do anything to The Other Guy other than pissing him off (remember that bit in the beginning of 'Avengers' about Hulk spitting out a bullet Banner put in his brain? I don't think those bullets from the plastic prison scene in X2 are going to do more than annoy him) and the X-Men were suffering from a severe handicap the Avenger's don't necessarily have-namely, wanting to safe Rogue.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Avengers are good guys. They might accept collateral damage if they have no choice, but I doubt they wouldn't at least try to save Rogue.

[Iroscato]

Yeah, the Brotherhood may as well just surrender unconditionally as soon as the Avengers turns up. Mystique may be an excellent hand-to-hand fighter, but Black Widow at least matches her and if Hawkeye's with her, it's basically game over. She could maybe use her powers to cause some confusion but I doubt she'd be able to do much. Sabretooth might do well against Cap but I think he would struggle against Iron Man, who quickly figures out he's useless against Magneto.
As for Magneto himself...I would think that the 'magic' of Mjolnir would overwhelm Magneto's mutant powers. It's just on a totally different level of power. And I doubt any metal close to hand would be able to hold Hulk for very long.

[Coop D'etat]

I would think the Avengers would win this one pretty easily.

If we want a fun scenario, we should pit the "First Class" X-men team against the Avengers. Then the mutants have both Magneto as a physical heavy-weight (and insta-win button against Stark) and Xavier's telepathy in the ring against the Avengers big guns and a decent team of four (Mystique, Havok, Banshee and Beast, three of which would count as super-human combatants) to watch their backs.

I wouldn't underrate how much juice movie Magneto brings to the table either. The guy literally picks up and carries bridges, submarines and stadiums and is no slouch on fine control either. I'm pretty sure that's a bigger deal than what Thor has been able to do.

[TheHammer]

As for wrapping them in metal... good luck doing that if both of them rush him at the same time. I highly doubt Magneto could wrap both of them in enough metal to incapacitate them in the time it takes for one or both of them to reach him. And if Thor throws his hammer, Magneto's going to have to with that first before he even gets the chance to switch his attention to them. The best Magneto could hope for is to deflect Thor's Hammer when it's thrown at him... then promptly get punched in the face by either Hulk or Thor himself.

I think it greatly depends on the range at which the engagement begins. Again, there isn't a need to wrap either one in metal. If he could get them to ingest metal (or have it get inside their bodies via an open oriface) he could levitate them indefinitely. Short of tearing it out of their own bodies I don't see how they could stop him once he has them off the ground.

Obviously he would have to deal with them long term in order to complete his mission, but as they are more or less incapacitated he would have time to get creative.

[Elheru Aran]

Xavier's telepathy is just cheating. It's not developed nearly as far as it is in X2 when he's able to freeze everybody in a crowded shopping mall, but it's pretty powerful. He could just tell The Other Guy to shut down, and he likely would, unless he's epically pissed like he was in WWH.

Magneto's powers seem to be mostly effective within visual range; I don't think there's any demonstration of him doing anything much farther than that in the films. In the comics, well, things get ridiculous there, but this isn't the comics. If the Avengers can sneak up on Ellis Island (plausible), they can get close enough that he won't necessarily have a whole lot of time to attack them. He did allow the X-Men to get pretty close, after all...

[Kojiro]

In the original OP it all hinges on Magneto and the Avengers will know that. After he's down it's clean up.

In the First Class one it's a matter of approach. Charles and Magneto are too powerful to attack directly. Assuming they are (for whatever reason) still doing the Statue of Liberty scenario the Avengers will need to infiltrate, probably difficult to impossible with Charles scanning and the area otherwise abandoned- no psychic cover to speak of and the Hulk is probably a glaring psychic flare of anger so obvious any telepath could sense him a mile off. Unless the Avengers happen to arrive or sneak in while Charles isn't looking- possibly under the cover of rampaging Hulk as a distraction- it just won't matter. Their only hope is that Thor is somehow resistant to mind control.

[Batman]

The Avengers are good guys. They might accept collateral damage if they have no choice, but I doubt they wouldn't at least try to save Rogue.

If they know she's there and an innocent victim, yes. The X-Men did. Do the Avengers?