Transhumanism: how would you enhance yourself?

[Junghalli]

A question I'm curious on seeing general reactions to. Assuming you lived in a society where transhumanism was possible, would you choose it, and if so to what degree.

Assume a realistic/hard SF-ish scenario, so you can't enhance yourself in ways that break the basic laws of physics, but within that you have plenty of room (at a high end, for instance, you could turn yourself into something like this). Also, assume an AI-enabled effective postscarcity society; cost of your augmentations will not be a problem, and neither will negative economic consequences of not being augmented.

For purposes of better guaging what people would and would not choose, I've divided your options into 4 general categories:

(1) Uploading: complete abandonment of your fleshy form. Assume a scenario where brain/body simulation is good enough that your mental processes and sensory experience need not be changed unless you wish it, and you can keep an apparently human-like form if you want (remote controlled meat puppet, very realistic human-like robot etc.). Also assume a scenario where computers are available that are substantially better than the human brain pound for pound.

(2) Enhancement: you keep an organic body of some sort but intend to enhance it substantially with either biotechnology, cybernetics, or some combination of both. For purposes of this scenario, you can enhance yourself substantially while keeping an externally human appearance (though obviously there are limits).

(3) Peak humanity/immortality: you don't intend to substantially alter yourself from humanity, but within that you may improve yourself substantially. You may increase your lifespan, increase your capabilities to peak human level, make yourself physically attractive etc.

(4) None: you wouldn't enhance or change your body in any way.

Particular commentaries on how people would prefer to enhance themselves are welcome. However, I ask that we try not to make this a debate about transhumanism's general merits or plausibility, but simply stick to what you as individuals would prefer for yourselves, thank you.


Also, a secondary question for those who would not choose to enhance themselves, suppose instead you were in a transhumanist society that did not have AIs doing everything; one where effective scarcity economics still applied and you would not be eligible for many jobs because they would require transhuman workers (or would be easier for transhuman workers, so transhuman applicants would be preferred). Let's call this Scenario 2, where the first is Scenario 1. Would you change your vote?

[Stark]

Why not combine two? Two Starks are clearly better than one. Or maybe nine like in Terrahawks.

[K. A. Pital]

One. I become one with the nanotech cloud, or I become the nanotech cloud.

Then I start playing with earth-forming and architecture if we have sufficient resources (post scarcity or communism of sorts). If we are still limited in resources heavily, whether they are centrally administered or privately, I start working somewhere in the construction sphere or the like, possibly travel around the world until I get bored.

[Formless]

I find it funny and telling that you chose to put the silliest/least plausible option first... but I digress.

I would go with either #2 or #3. Mind uploading is for people who aren't comfortable with their human limitations, but of course don't realize that they are trading in for whole new (admittedly higher end) limitations they probably won't even know existed until they are already made of silicon. There are already so many things an ordinary flesh and blood human being can experience that I would like to experience that there just isn't much to be gained for me by leaving my body behind. Physical immortality is good enough for me, especially since there will probably always be more new things to experience as a good old fashioned meatbag.

[adam_grif]

I'm content to rid myself of all of my body bar my brain, which I will replace component by component over a period of years.

7' tall cyborg body for me. I'd like to remain aesthetically human, with no obvious external signs of being a cyborg.

[Anguirus]

Whichever option lets me keep my penis as well as building a bitching rad machine gun into my arm.

Naturally, I would take care to put the safety on one when utilizing the other.

[Formless]

Whichever option lets me keep my penis as well as building a bitching rad machine gun into my arm.

Naturally, I would take care to put the safety on one when utilizing the other.

I think that would fit under option #2.

[Junghalli]

Mind uploading is for people who aren't comfortable with their human limitations, but of course don't realize that they are trading in for whole new (admittedly higher end) limitations they probably won't even know existed until they are already made of silicon.

If you're worried about losing experiences you'd have as a flesh and blood human I did specify that:

Assume a scenario where brain/body simulation is good enough that your mental processes and sensory experience need not be changed unless you wish it

Technology in this scenario is advanced enough that you can have a functionally perfect simulation of what you'd experience if you still had a human body.

I may have misunderstood your concern though.

[Formless]

I may have misunderstood your concern though.

Massively. I can simulate experiences in real life too; its called a video game. That doesn't mean the real thing isn't preferable. For one thing, who writes the simulation? Real life has no author pulling the strings, and I like that. Furthermore, the simple fact that real life does not have cheat codes means you can have an actual sense of achievement for experiencing truly remarkable things that strain the limits of your ability. Simulations also lack the risks associated with that thing we call "life" that makes said state of being so fun. But hey, if you want to make this one of those pointless threads where one option is so wanked that no rational human being would chose any of the others, be my guest. After all, if you have simulations so good they can fool human senses, you can simulate a whole universe where people get to have the other options free of charge. Or they could be elves from Tolkien. Or furries. Etc. That's just cheating.

Edit: And besides, the text you quoted has nothing to do with losing experiences anyway. I was saying that most people who want mind uploading (and transhumanism in general) want to improve themselves because they think of their human limitations as bad or are otherwise uncomfortable with them. The thing is, perfection is impossible; you can always find ways to improve. But in a situation where I can arbitrarily improve myself via magic technology, its a moot point, and I would just move on to "what do I want to accomplish in life?" My answer (since it seems the world in this scenario has already been rid of the problems of today) is that I want to experience new things, and that does not require my mind be on a chip. Immortality on the other hand means I can maximize how much I get to experience.

Note that mind uploading has one small drawback most people overlook: I value my family and friends, and most of them I know wouldn't like to be uploaded (for one thing most of them are at least nominally religious). Uploading myself would likely alienate me from them, and more-so vice verse. Being that I'm not a sociopath, that's a bit of an issue.

[Ryan Thunder]

I think I could settle for a prehensile penis of controlled variable length.

Purely for S&G, of course.

[Starglider]

The physical stuff is trivial compared to mental enhancements. Everyone can imagine what it would be like to be immortal, super-strong, able to dive and fly without equipment, etc etc (to a lesser extent, what it would be like to be an exotic robot form). It's basically impossible to imagine what it would be like to be a mind without the crushing limitations of human cognitive architecture - it's very hard to work out the consequences even on a formal/theoretical level. You can imagine thinking so fast the world seems to be paused around you, of never forgetting anything, of having all your favourite reference books and computer software instantly available at a thought, but that's just scratching the surface of the potential. This is why the Singularity is defined (by Vernor Vinge, in the original and superior conception of it) by non-human intelligence, not just posthuman enhancement.

[Formless]

It's basically impossible to imagine what it would be like to be a mind without the crushing limitations of human cognitive architecture - it's very hard to work out the consequences even on a formal/theoretical level.

If we cannot imagine what it would be like, why the fuck should we care? Do you not see the contradiction? There is no objective reason to think that a different cognitive architecture is desirable to everyone. In fact, I would argue that to tinker with the way my mind processes information effectively makes me no longer me, even if we assume the resulting entity retains my memories. See also the issue I have with alienating my family and friends: what you propose only further worsens that problem.

[Junghalli]

Massively. I can simulate experiences in real life too; its called a video game. That doesn't mean the real thing isn't preferable. For one thing, who writes the simulation? Real life has no author pulling the strings, and I like that. Furthermore, the simple fact that real life does not have cheat codes means you can have an actual sense of achievement for experiencing truly remarkable things that strain the limits of your ability. Simulations also lack the risks associated with that thing we call "life" that makes said state of being so fun.

I'd point out that just because you have a simulation of having a human body doesn't mean your whole world has to be a simulation. You could, say, walk around in an advanced robot body that looked just like a human body and felt just like being in a human body (only with vastly greater performance if desired). That would allow you to experience most of the desirable things usually associated with not living in a simulated world (sense of having "real" accomplishments and experiences).

[Formless]

Oh, and one more thought, we already can alter our cognitive architecture, at least for short periods of time. Its called "drugs."

[Formless]

Massively. I can simulate experiences in real life too; its called a video game. That doesn't mean the real thing isn't preferable. For one thing, who writes the simulation? Real life has no author pulling the strings, and I like that. Furthermore, the simple fact that real life does not have cheat codes means you can have an actual sense of achievement for experiencing truly remarkable things that strain the limits of your ability. Simulations also lack the risks associated with that thing we call "life" that makes said state of being so fun.

I'd point out that just because you have a simulation of having a human body doesn't mean your whole world has to be a simulation. You could, say, walk around in an advanced robot body that looked just like a human body and felt just like being in a human body (only with vastly greater performance if desired). That would allow you to experience most of the desirable things usually associated with not living in a simulated world (sense of having "real" accomplishments and experiences).

I did say I would consider cyborg enhancements in this scenario, didn't I? In the end, its a matter of personal preference (I assume that's why you asked the question in the first place), and I just don't see why I would want to go all the way. Maybe after a few centuries of that kind of life I might change my mind.

[Junghalli]

I did say I would consider cyborg enhancements in this scenario, didn't I?

I'd say if you were walking around in a robot body with no biological components (which is what I was talking about) you'd be an upload.

[Formless]

I did say I would consider cyborg enhancements in this scenario, didn't I?

I'd say if you were walking around in a robot body with no biological components (which is what I was talking about) you'd be an upload.

*shrugs* I probably wouldn't go that far either, although it does lack the whole "uploads are technically copies" issue. I don't really know, because this is just a hypothetical at the moment. All I know is that full blown mind uploading is an unnecessary step for the things I want to do if I had the free time and resources, and when considering that I don't want to alienate myself from the people around me, I can safely say its not something I would do, at least at first.

[Guardsman Bass]

When you say "uploading", is it like transferring my flow of consciousness from my current body to the electronic form, or it is like making a duplicate of myself in electronic form (the old "does a Trek transporter kill people" type of debate)? If it's the former, then I'll go with Option 1, with my meat puppet (assuming it doesn't go fully robotic) being enhanced with stuff from Option 2.

Presumably Option 1 and the whole post-scarcity society allows me to do fun additional stuff like mentally control various robotic spacecraft, although distance would eventually become a problem.

[Junghalli]

When you say "uploading", is it like transferring my flow of consciousness from my current body to the electronic form, or it is like making a duplicate of myself in electronic form (the old "does a Trek transporter kill people" type of debate)?

Both options are available in this scenario, but when I said "uploading" I was more thinking of abandonment of the biological body, I'm not sure what creating a copy of yourself but still having your biological self around would count as.

[Shroom Man 777]

I'll buy the awesomest big-named brand consumer organs available! iBrains for my brains, and Kodiak optical implants so I can take digital pictures with my (cunts for) eeeeyes! I'll totally get new kidneys with SUPERIOR organic waste filtration nephrons and if I've got enough money, I can get myself a pre-owned/second hand liver so I won't be such a shit drinker anymore! Like, I can get Nike or Addidas-branded quality thigh muscles so I can have ENERGY LEGS and run totally fast, and I've got to make sure these are REAL brands and not generic or fake brands since they have a tendency of wearing down too fast! I'm not sure if I should get a gas-guzzling Ford or GMC V8 cylinder cardiovascular system, since they're totally awesomely horsepowerful, or if I should go with a Honda or Toyota hybrid cardiovascular system for more fuel economy. Should I buy American organs, or Japanese organs? I also do not know if I should go with diesel or unleaded red blood cells to fuel my organs! Help me out, guys! I'll totally upload my brainware with the newest MicroShroom OS 777 version and get a new antivirus so cyberpunk assholes and KHAAAAAN can't put brain worms in my head. A new multimedia system would be totally cool too, and I can totally download new 4D Smellovision with my brain but I'd need a bigger NINE HUNDRED GIGABYTE hard drive in my medulla oblongata. If I've got enough cash, I can totally get my face rebuffed and repainted with low radar cross section (RCS) paintjobs with radar absorbent materials and stuff! I will get my spinal cord upgraded with a General Electric fiber optic system and stuff! And, oooh-oooh, a GE airconditioning system for my lungs too since I hate the heat and humidity! Water-cooled systems, overclocked brains, maybe some Phizer or Johnson & Johnson endocrine system with branded pharmaceutical hormone glands (and not generic shit mandated by socialist government FDA progroms)! I'd love to get a new 56k brainmodem too so I can dialup to the brainternets to downloadd pornography and pirated movies with my brain with brain-to-brain software!!!

The only downside I can imagine is that the epidermis of my skin will be marked with all sorts of shitty brands. Can you imagine having a glowing neon Honda symbol on your forehead? Or everytime you wake up and your brainware boots up (or when you sleep and shut down), the MicroShroom theme plays out? That sucks. Fuck posthumanity!

[Formless]

As usual, you win the thread, shroom.

[Shroom Man 777]

But yeah. If we're NOT in a utopian postscarcity HARD SCI FI LOL REALISTIC environment, it stands to reason that all these new awesome super-organoid systems would be provided by all sorts of pharmaceutical and biotech companies who'd probably behave not much different from modern companies selling consumer electronic crap to people - except instead of iPods and PS3s, these craps would instead be inside your body. Sure, there'd be awesome quality control, I guess, but still. These things would pretty much be expensive luxuries, perhaps manufactured in the Third World with Chinese wage slaves handmaking your crappy brand-name organs, and with Indians in call centers ready to take your call whenever your iBrain malfunctions and you need to debug it.

If transhumanism and posthumanity is handled like modern day extravagant products, like obscenely-priced shitty Starbucks lattes and frappucinos that the average starving African diamond mine slave-worker will never-ever be able to afford in his life, then I guess it's going to be pretty crap. It won't be dystopic or anything, but still these wonderfully awesome things are probably going to be available only to those lucky few with wealth and whatever. Meh.

I don't think it is so bad if my awesome new super biotech organs are all stamped with shitty brand names from companies I hate because they overprice their products and put obnoxious Apple/Mac commercials on TV, making annoying people harp whenever they've got the latest fashionable piece of consumer organic crap. It's just going to be another factor of life... or should I say postlife? Postorgans? Are we gonna be postmen?

Also, I forgot to say that I also want variable geometry genitals and secondary sex organs. Imagine a vagina that inverts and turns inside out, folding outwards so that a penis emerges from the hole. Or the penis itself sinks back and retracts inside your groin, disappearing and leaving only a hole that reconfigures itself into a clitoris. That would be really cool. Like a convertible.

I'd get one of those. Preferably a Porsche or a Ferarri. Painted hot red and with aerodynamic testicles! And WITHOUT shitty spoilers or dumbass "wings" like what people put on their crappy Honda Civics.

EDIT:

Since I'm too cheap to buy cellphones with cameras in them, when I am now able to take digital pictures with my post-eyes, I will so totally use my iBrain to post all over Facebook crappy self-pictures I take by myself using my Kodiak eye-cameras. I mean, sure, all these self-pictures are pretty much the same with me posing in front of the mirror and making stupid pouty faces to post in Facebook or MyShroom or devart or whatever, but meh. I can download Postphotoshop for my iBrain and like touch these self-pictures up to make them look "arteestic". You can use your own post-eyes to camewhore!

[Serafina]

Hm - i guess uploading might be a bit much right now.

Why? Well, because i actually lik to have a body to play with.
If i can keep it, i would jump straight to uploading - if it is a good robotic body with similar quality of perception as the human one or something similar.

Upgrading my body?
Damn, sure, of course - no matter how. Better is better.
Upgrading my brain?
Yup, i would do that, too. And more than just "well, i can now think really fast" - as long as it does not remove emotions (because i actually like those).

Mind you, thats mostly because i am still young. Give it another two or three decades, and most of the restrictions above would propably not apply anymore.

[adam_grif]

This thread reminds me of a question I wanted to ask:

What kind of range do you think you could pull off if you had to create a "shapeshifter face" using technological means? So a face with as many variable geometry and color things as possible. I'm thinking you'd need all sorts of tiny muscles all over to pull and stretch things in different directions, and some kind of artificial pigment that changes color when you need it to.

[Oskuro]

I'd totally get rid of my flawed organic body, and go all virtual. Of course, I'd try to make the jump after reaching a reasonable end to my natural human life, so that my relationships to other people can be fulfilled.

Afterwards, I don't know, I'd personally load up my consciousness into some sort of self-upgrading hyper spaceship, and rocket off into space to do some exploration, with the occasional visit back to Earth to see how humanity is faring.