When did Wolverine become so wanky?

[Balrog]

Inspired while reading this thread and some of the responses.

Now I grew up with the old 90s Saturday morning cartoon version of the X-men, where Logan ran around in a yellow costume, had an attitude, cool claws that cut through stuff and could survive some hard knocks. However, that was about it. You could still knock him out and do some serious damage to him that would require time to heal, none of this 'survive nuclear explosions' crap. His fighting style was very much the "charge-in-and-hack-shit-to-ribbons", no "he knows every form of martial arts". And it was always Cyclops that came up with plans and acted as team leader while Wolverine usually ran off and did his own thing.

Now suddenly Wolverine is everywhere; he shows up the other mutants in the X-Men movies (especially the second and third IMO), he gets his own spin-off movie, and the latest cartoon has him in the title leading the team.

So my main question is, when did Wolverine become so damn wanky? Is there some defining moment or writer responsible for this interesting but ultimately second-tier superhero becoming so freaking awesome and cool and he can't be killed and he has a bad attitude but he's a great guy inside who is perfect at doing everything? Or am I letting my nostalgia color my view and making me overly cynical about his current depictions?

[General Zod]

I like to blame the Wolverine vs Lobo matchup in the Marvel vs DC crossover event in the 90s. Wolverine actually somehow managed to win thanks to fanboy votes, but the writers were dickless cowards who wouldn't actually show how he won.

[Pablo Sanchez]

In the mid-late 80s comic books experienced a kind of renaissance with the publication of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, with the side effect that grim, dark, and extremely violent characters and plots became heavily emphasized. This trend reached the level of self-parody during the 1990s, with artists Todd McFarlane and Rob Liefeld becoming superstars (Liefeld is well-known as a talentless hack, whereas McFarlane is probably a pretty talented artist but his vanity series Spawn is practically the best example of the 90s grimdark comics).

Wolverine road this wave like a motherfucker, for obvious reasons--his superpowers are gruesome (he has invincibility but he looks like he's hurt, and he has knife-hands!) and he's violent, often crossing the superhero line and actually killing people. Wolverine was a character who could get shot a bunch of times and then murder a dozen henchmen with his face all hanging off--totally rad! He didn't use huge guns, so that's a minus, but he's was still archetypal for the time.

I think that he's actually a fairly interesting character in himself, but like all fairly interesting characters he's written like shit by most of the writers who use him.

[Eleas]

Wolverine road this wave like a motherfucker, for obvious reasons--his superpowers are gruesome (he has invincibility but he looks like he's hurt, and he has knife-hands!) and he's violent, often crossing the superhero line and actually killing people. Wolverine was a character who could get shot a bunch of times and then murder a dozen henchmen with his face all hanging off--totally rad! He didn't use huge guns, so that's a minus, but he's was still archetypal for the time.

Also, he was a ninja. Or ninja-samurai. (If that makes no sense, just remember I'm talking about an era where the difference was practically unknown in Western pop culture.) Although, to be fair, I think Daredevil adopted the same shtick at roughly the same time.

[Steve]

IIRC Wolverine's links to Japan were established before this stupidity and wank started working its way into comics. It was just another element of his "mystery man" background to some extent.

[Havok]

Frank Miller did it.

He's responsible for the majority of the GRIMDARK of the 80's and as Pablo pointed out, lead to further wankage of Wolverine.

[Ghost Rider]

Frank Miller did it.

He's responsible for the majority of the GRIMDARK of the 80's and as Pablo pointed out, lead to further wankage of Wolverine.

Somewhat. It's people who looked to his GRIMDARK and went "It made money!!!". Alan Moore actually despised most of the people of that era as well because pretty much they looked to his material and did the same reaction. Miller truly regretted at one point how everyone aped him but for the wrong reason. Course nowdays, he's become a parody of his old self, so who knows what his feelings are at the moment.

[Havok]

Oh for sure. Miller still started it though.

I also happen to think he is parodying himself on purpose at this point. Especially with All Star Batman and Robin. The awesome ridiculousness of some of the story is great. Not everyone sees it like I do though.

[Ghost Rider]

Oh for sure. Miller still started it though.

I also happen to think he is parodying himself on purpose at this point. Especially with All Star Batman and Robin. The awesome ridiculousness of some of the story is great. Not everyone sees it like I do though.

He's the one that popularized it, technically I would actually place more blame on Marv Wolfman/George Perez and Chris Claremont with a dash of Alan Moore. They all skewed away from the Silver Age and even late Silver Age leanings to a more dark and realistic approach to sex, violence and even general tone before Frank Miller. Miller's earlier works were nothing compared to even Year One or Dark Knight Returns and even gives some claim that Moore's and Claremont's writings were large influences on his works after a while.

And after the years, he really doesn't think of it as parody as much as he hates some things that much. I used to talk with him and he basically went from decent guy with some ultra violence love(Sin City) to basically fucking nuts. He pretty much views that all comic should bend to Sin City view rather then not. On other subjects he's rather fun to talk with, but something, somewhere unhinged his personal view and he's in full hard on hate mode with anything DC and laughs anytime they allow him any sort of ability to screw with their properties.

[Count Chocula]

To add to the wank, when did Wolverine become immortal? I have a series of comics from the '90s that have Wolverine, sans adamantium but with his wacky regen powers, fighting in the Spanish Civil War. Then he disappears into the Canadian wilderness. WTF?

I think a lot of the Wolverine wank comes from the movies. Hugh Jackman just has more character as an actor than the other cast members (Halle Berry is really nice to look at, but her character is sooo one-dimensional). He just dominates the screen.

[General Zod]

To add to the wank, when did Wolverine become immortal? I have a series of comics from the '90s that have Wolverine, sans adamantium but with his wacky regen powers, fighting in the Spanish Civil War. Then he disappears into the Canadian wilderness. WTF?

I think a lot of the Wolverine wank comes from the movies. Hugh Jackman just has more character as an actor than the other cast members (Halle Berry is really nice to look at, but her character is sooo one-dimensional). He just dominates the screen.

Wolverine's regen was basically a license for writers to go "lol he regenerates so that means he gets old really really really slowly". Sadly they seem to be stuck on the brainbug that it also means he can't die. Not even if you throw him into the sun. (I'm seriously not making that one up).

[Stark]

That's just standard comicbook no-limits crap. This is what happens when comicbook nerds grow up to be comicbook writers and use books to win arguments or make characters what they 'should' be to cheesey-fingered nerds.

[Havok]

Well here's to hoping I get in somewhere eventually. I'm going to tap some of you guys to help me ruin fan boys.

[Stark]

Hell yes. You need to get into online debates first, so that you can later say SEE I GOT PUBLISHED YOU LOSE.

[Ghost Rider]

Hell yes. You need to get into online debates first, so that you can later say SEE I GOT PUBLISHED YOU LOSE.

That doesn't deflect or even hinder the fuckers.

I'll be blunt Hav, you will turn one of two ways.

1. George Perez: Have a wonderful wife, flirt with the good looking women while having a rosy outlook that you are doing the thing you love and people either praise you or call you a cockmonger and all you do is thank them for putting in $200 to get a sketch from you.

2. Everyone else: 90% of fans are hatfuckers who if you had a power you would have them stick their virgin dick into their own asshole just so they can die knowing what having sex is the second they go "But why?!".

[Ender]

I saw a page or 2 last fall that was the way Wolverine wank should be written - him trashing a bunch of danger room robots because they tried to distract him from watching Hockey and eating Tim Horton's. If you are going to play up a character to the point of stupidity, make it entertaining. Wish I could find it now, it was great.

[Pulp Hero]

One thing that is just so offensively stupid to me is how he can now regenerate from nothing, like coming back fully formed from one cell or surviving in the wilderness by cannibalizing himself. (Both canon examples.)

I think it would be awesome if he had a metabolism to go with the superhuman regeneration. Just should him always eating tons of food. All sorts of sight gag potential with that.

[Fiji_Fury]

Wolverine's regen ability really jumped the shark at the point where Magneto wrenched all the adamantium off of Logan's body simultaneously. Or rather it jumped the shark shortly after that point: the event itself nearly killed Wolverine and for a few comics afterward his healing factor was essentially spent... then it somehow kicked into-hyper overdrive. I'm not sure of the editors, writers, artists (or even the year for that matter) of these particular issues, but that point there is the last time in my memory of X-Men comics that Wolverine was every really threatened by any damage done to him.

[Havok]

Wolverine's regen ability really jumped the shark at the point where Magneto wrenched all the adamantium off of Logan's body simultaneously. Or rather it jumped the shark shortly after that point: the event itself nearly killed Wolverine and for a few comics afterward his healing factor was essentially spent... then it somehow kicked into-hyper overdrive. I'm not sure of the editors, writers, artists (or even the year for that matter) of these particular issues, but that point there is the last time in my memory of X-Men comics that Wolverine was every really threatened by any damage done to him.

Actually, I sort of liked what they did with Wolverine at that point. His healing factor was constantly fighting off the adverse effects of the foreign adamantium in his body in order to keep him alive. Without it his healing factor was at full strength. It is one of the few times I thought Wolverine was handled intelligently.

I'll be blunt Hav, you will turn one of two ways.

1. George Perez: Have a wonderful wife, flirt with the good looking women while having a rosy outlook that you are doing the thing you love and people either praise you or call you a cockmonger and all you do is thank them for putting in $200 to get a sketch from you.

2. Everyone else: 90% of fans are hatfuckers who if you had a power you would have them stick their virgin dick into their own asshole just so they can die knowing what having sex is the second they go "But why?!".

Damit GR, don't pigeon hole me! I'd like to just be honest and carry what I've learned from this board to the masses. And flirt with the good looking women.

[Ar-Adunakhor]

As someone who knows very little about comics, I have to ask: If his bones are coated in the adamantium and it was all yanked out... wouldn't the connection between his brain and spinal cord be severed while the brain itself was pulled out and crushed to a gooey paste? You can't just re-grow a brain and spine, can you?

[Shroom Man 777]

He can.

[Ghost Rider]

He can.

Don't spam.

[Crazedwraith]

He can.

He can know. At that point his healing factor wasn't really that wanky.

Magneto didn't just crudely rip it straight off and out though, he sort of peeled it off and made it ooze out of Logan's wounds in streams.

[Manus Celer Dei]

One thing that is just so offensively stupid to me is how he can now regenerate from nothing, like coming back fully formed from one cell or surviving in the wilderness by cannibalizing himself. (Both canon examples.)

The regenerating from a single cell thing wasn't a typical example of his ability though, there was some magical gem thing involved, wasn't there? His blood fell on it or something and it amplfied his healing factor. Shitty writing, but by no means the worst use of his healing.

Not even if you throw him into the sun. (I'm seriously not making that one up).

When did that happen?

[General Zod]

Not even if you throw him into the sun. (I'm seriously not making that one up).

When did that happen?

It was during the Xorn/Magneto storyline or something, I don't recall an exact book. Phoenix and Wolverine were stranded on an asteroid or spaceship or something that was slowly sinking into the sun and while he was going through the corona he was still able to just barely stay alive by regenerating his flesh as it was getting melted off.