Do you agree with any of this?

[ShadowSonic]

This sort of verifies some of what I've believed to be true (or close to the truth) for a while now. Does anyone here have anything to say about this?

http://startrekdom.blogspot.com/2007/08 ... -trek.html

[Baal]

The Star Trek genre had already been pissed on quite heavily before UPN came along.

If UPN is to blame for anything it is for adding a few nails and bringing along the hammer to drive them into the coffin.

[Patrick Degan]

Please. Brannon Braga was actually proud of the fact that he was unfamiliar with TOS and gleefully pissed all over it at every opportunity. We don't even have the countervailing evidence of any effort on Berman and Braga's parts to try to put forth a good show only to get stymied by the suits at every turn. They approved and even co-wrote (some) of the craptacular material which polluted the airwaves for nigh on a decade and a half. They disposed of Ron Moore when he was no longer willing to write scripts the Berman/Braga Way and steadily cut Jeri Taylor (no genius either) out of her job on V'ger.

Sorry, but the article sounds like apologist bullshit. That the suits who ran UPN and Paramount have their share of the guilt, one salient question is overlooked:

If Paramount were dissatisfied with Berman and Braga, why didn't they fire their asses at the first opportunity?

What's also overlooked is how the network failed not because the Franchise failed but because the network's entire lineup of shows sucked —the only exception being the one and only quality show they ever had which got shitcanned after only one season: Nowhere Man.

[Sabastian Tombs]

The story doesn't confirm anything. The writer is simply making suppositions. At the end of the article, he even asks Rick Berman to provide the evidence he doesn't have.

Now, nearly 2 years after the cancellation of Enterprise and 1 year after the death of UPN, Rick Berman is writing his memoirs. Mr. Berman, come clean for us! Tell us what this network did and how they interfered with Trek. Tell us who is really to blame for the failures, faulty directions, and ratings ploys. Tell us, please, how UPN ruined Star Trek.

Perhaps when fans finally understand the details, your contributions to Trek will finally be celebrated for what they were in good times, not what you had to cover for in bad times.

In the meantime, this writer invites every fan to analyze what went wrong over the years. Ask yourself, "Should we really blame Rick Berman?

Frankly, a fanzine/blog with no apparent connection to anyone with inside information is a poor source for arguments.

[Sidewinder]

It is fairly clear that UPN is to blame for adding a catsuit to Voyager, a show that began as a feminist statement of sorts. In several interviews, Rick Berman recalled the horror of network suits at seeing Seven of Nine borgified. "Get her out of that junk!" they screamed while hoping for a quick fix that catered to the lowest denominator.

If UPN's suits demanded that Seven of Nine get out of her Borg "uniform," why wouldn't a standard Starfleet uniform do? I blame the producers, namely, B & B, for putting Seven in a catsuit.

[Shroom Man 777]

And what was wrong with the catsuit?

[Bounty]

And what was wrong with the catsuit?

Apart from looking stupid to anyone over 14, the first version made it hard for her to even breathe.

And Ryan looked much better in normal clothes.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Plus, the catsuit had built-in three inch heels. What is functional or efficient about that?

Give me 7 in a uniform any day. All the trek women looked better in it; Troi, Seven, Kira, fugheddaboutit.

Footnote: Dax looked best in the TOS skirt-and-boots combo.

[ShadowSonic]

To be honest, I'm kind of hoping that Berman's "Tell-all" book will have the effect of other former Trek writers/producers also coming out to give their side of the story to we can get a more complete picture of just what was going on during the UPN years.

Didn't they release a a book Piller wrote about his time with Trek before he died a while ago?

EDIT: Never mind, they never released it because the ownership is still in question and the guy who currently has it isn't allowed by Paramount to do anything with it yet.

[CDiehl]

why wouldn't a standard Starfleet uniform do?

She wasn't in Starfleet, and didn't seem all that interested in joining. There must be a happy medium between "Starfleet uniform" and "distraction in heels." Also, if she had to wear something close to the skin for some reason (I believe this was how they papered over the catsuit), she could wear that under a set of more conventional clothes, and therefore not be subject to the ogling of around half the crew.

[Singular Intellect]

why wouldn't a standard Starfleet uniform do?

She wasn't in Starfleet, and didn't seem all that interested in joining. There must be a happy medium between "Starfleet uniform" and "distraction in heels." Also, if she had to wear something close to the skin for some reason (I believe this was how they papered over the catsuit), she could wear that under a set of more conventional clothes, and therefore not be subject to the ogling of around half the crew.

I suppose one possible "in universe" explanation is that prior to coming to Voyager Seven was wearing skin tight material (ie: Borg suit) all her adult and most of her younger life. Perhaps that's why she preferred the catsuit, she was actually more comfortable in it.

[Shroom Man 777]

I admit, her in that green uniform is hawt

[ShadowSonic]

I understnad why they didn't, but I kinda wished they kept more of the Borg parts on her body than just the eyebow thing and the bits on her left hand.

I know that VOY wasn't allowed to tell much in the way of arcs, which would mean it wouldn't be budget-friendly to have Ryan in a getup that took 6 hours to put on, but it would've been cool (but not cost-effective) so I see why they didn't.

But I also agree she should've been in more normal clothes, she was hot regardless so UPN still would've gotten their sexy char without having to be so blatant with it.

But the in-universe explanation was that the skin-tight suits were regenerating her skin and had to be all tight and stuff to work. Wonder why she had to keep wearing them though,because it would've fully regenerated her after a few months IMO.

[Lord Pounder]

why wouldn't a standard Starfleet uniform do?

She wasn't in Starfleet, and didn't seem all that interested in joining. There must be a happy medium between "Starfleet uniform" and "distraction in heels." Also, if she had to wear something close to the skin for some reason (I believe this was how they papered over the catsuit), she could wear that under a set of more conventional clothes, and therefore not be subject to the ogling of around half the crew.

The Maquis crew wheren't starfleet eiter yet worse the uniform.

[Baal]

why wouldn't a standard Starfleet uniform do?

She wasn't in Starfleet, and didn't seem all that interested in joining. There must be a happy medium between "Starfleet uniform" and "distraction in heels." Also, if she had to wear something close to the skin for some reason (I believe this was how they papered over the catsuit), she could wear that under a set of more conventional clothes, and therefore not be subject to the ogling of around half the crew.

The Maquis crew wheren't starfleet eiter yet worse the uniform.

The assumption here might be that a good number of the Maquis were former Starfleet members. 7 was never anything of the sort.

[Big Phil]

This guy blames UPN for the (craptacular) quality of Voyager and the Star Trek franchise in general over the last decade, while excusing Berman and Braga for their role, is that about the size of it?

In that case, I agree that UPN is to blame for the fuckup that was Voyager, but to say that Berman and Braga were just pawns in UPN's web of idiocy is foolish. Everybody involved in that franchise contributed to its shitdom, including (GASP) Gene Roddenberry and his stupid-ass ideas for TNG.

[Sonnenburg]

"In the meantime, this writer invites every fan to analyze what went wrong over the years. Ask yourself, "Should we really blame Rick Berman?""

Yes.

When you are one of the creative parties involved in a high level for a program, and a situation exists that you know is producing a poor product, one that you are powerless to stop, you do what Ron Moore did. You resign. You don't cling to it until a network that was willing to give "Pig Sty" a whole season doesn't want it any more.

The network was undeniably responsible for some of the crap we had; their episode trailers were crafted by someone born without a soul. But the day to day running of the program was not handled well, as has been said again and again by those behind the scenes. The on screen evidence also shows this mismanagement, because I've often pointed out that "good" Voyager episodes are really just episodes that haven't been done stupidly - characters think, villains aren't stupid, cliches are avoided; the stories aren't even good, but because they're at least done right it's a breath of fresh air. So don't tell me that UPN was telling Berman to deliberate make the stories stupid. Don't tell me UPN told Braga to write so many hackney episodes he'd become a punchline. Don't tell me UPN told Taylor to make Janeway the annoying Mary Sue that she was. They produced crap, and they should have been capable of better.

[Stormbringer]

Did UPN and some of it's demands and practices have a negative impact on Star Trek? Certainly.

Does that excuse B&B from responsibility for their failure? Absolutely not.

The fact is that the decay has been going on since TNG and it noticeably accelerated under by the time B&B made themselves the uncontested rulers of Trek. That slow decline from the TNG peak alone should tell fans and observers that it wasn't just UPN's fault; there were serious problems for a long time. Movies like Nemesis, Insurrection, and even to an extent Generations and First Contact were less than stellar movies that were at best mediocre. Those are not affected by UPN and yet they still showed the same poorly envisioned, poorly written, and poorly executed material that dragged down Trek. At the very least those indicate problems going beyond the network.

And even if the networks were producing crap, these two were powerful enough to at least fight back. Guys like JMS, Joss Whedon, and Ron Moore have all fought for their shows and made headway. They certainly didn't just yes-man their work into a creative black hole. And B&B had to know, their own actors were bitching about the material and other creative people leaving, and yet they didn't do a thing about the actual creative content of the show. The network might have stuck their nose in but that's not an excuse because they do on every show. A good creative team would have at the very least worked hard to produce something other than utter dreck, even if the networks didn't have Shakespearean ambitions.

[Darth Wong]

I don't know why anybody would try so hard to make excuses for B&B. Just look at what they did in the last episode of ENT when they returned to work their creative magic. Trekkies everywhere still gnash their teeth over the sheer awfulness. If it was the network all along and not them, why did they create the worst ENT episode of all time when they supplanted Manny Coto and did the series finale?

[Knife]

What a stupid blog. Out of all the other arguments of why it's wrong, one can point to the movies which had absolutely dick to do with UPN to see that B&B sucked balls. On top of that, the decline of Trek started way before UPN or Voyager. DS9 and even TNG were on Fox, before there was a UPN.

I'm sure the 'suits' at upn did interfere, but it's no scape goat for B&B.

[Flagg]

What a stupid blog. Out of all the other arguments of why it's wrong, one can point to the movies which had absolutely dick to do with UPN to see that B&B sucked balls. On top of that, the decline of Trek started way before UPN or Voyager. DS9 and even TNG were on Fox, before there was a UPN.

I'm sure the 'suits' at upn did interfere, but it's no scape goat for B&B.

No, DS9 and TNG were syndicated until 1995 when DS9 was moved to UPN. Berman wasn't all that bad, he just stopped growing as a producer in 1994. Seriousely, watch any episode from the 7th season of TNG, then watch any episode from Voyagers 7th season or the first 2 seasons of Enterprise and tell me there is much of a difference from the way they were written and shot. DS9 was the only one that was different in tone simply because of the independance they had as the redheaded stepchild of the franchise, and it benefitted from that greatly.

[Uraniun235]

Let's not forget that Rick Berman is the man responsible for the utterly boring soundtrack for most of TNG, claiming that if it was too exciting it would distract the audience.

[Skylon]

No, DS9 and TNG were syndicated until 1995 when DS9 was moved to UPN.

Depended where you were. Here in the NYC area DS9 remained on the station that became WB here for it's entire seven year run, even after UPN was launched (which ironically held onto Babylon 5 for that shows first four years, despite being produced by Warner Bros).

[Ghost Rider]

If anyone considers that blog anything more then B&B cocksucking, they should get their head checked.

Sure, UPN may have some share of the blame...but to say all of it? This from the two idiots who basically faltered and showed signs of failed ratings as far back as Season 6 of TNG. Sorry, UPN wasn't there. The movies? No, UPN there.

And to claim at the end to CELEBRATE those fucker's contributions? Please, you can hear the vacuum noises from here.

In the end, it is one pathetic fan's attempt to place blame elsewhere, because he will not accept his golden calves failed him.

[Stormbringer]

Berman wasn't all that bad, he just stopped growing as a producer in 1994.

He wasn't all that bad is also a convenient way of saying he wasn't all that good either. Berman was the quintessential self-censoring studio Yes-Man at a time when even the studios were willing to be more daring! Berman was intensely cowardly and afraid of touching any social issues, and political topics, and even for doing a bit more with the story telling. It's worth noting that even stalwart network shows like Law & Order managed to have in the way of positive social commentary than Star Trek!

And lets leave aside from the fact that in many ways he regressed the ideas of continuity, storytelling, and the other things which might have kept Star Trek interesting. His decisions were in large part based not even on a lowest common denominator but on predicating near drooling retard levels on intelligence. Even fucking professional wrestling, a knuckle dragger demographic if there ever was one, can manage a basic story arc and consistent characterization!

DS9 was the only one that was different in tone simply because of the independance they had as the redheaded stepchild of the franchise, and it benefitted from that greatly.

It wasn't that different in tone from the previous series. And it had a lot of the faults that began in TNG and carried through to ENT. It did tend to have a bit more depth but it wasn't really that radical a departure from ST as fans would have us believe.