The Two Plot Flaws in TWOK: Chekhov and Ceti Alpha V.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-11-05 06:14pm

I think I've come up with a way to explain them:

1.) Khan Recognizing Chekhov, despite him not appearing until later in the show.

Checkhov must have been an enlisted crewman or a midshipman/lower ranked ensign on the Enterprise when "Space Seed" happened; and it was after that, that he passed the exams or whatever for promotion, or got promoted to the bridge crew; so it's reasonable that Khan could have seen and met Chekhov off screen in Space Seed.

2.) Why does nobody know about Ceti Alpha Five, Why make such a massive error in navigation?

The answer must be that the entire Space Seed episode was hushed up, and the basics flushed from the memory banks of the E-nil; since it would have been a huge political firestorm for the UPF; imagine some USN captain letting Hitler live in some island instead of bringing him in for justice? Basically same thing with Khan. The E-nil crew all got sworm to secrecy, with dire consequences mentioend for violation.

This explains why Captain Terrell didn't think anything was unusual about the Ceti Alpha System, and didn't know about or recognize Khan.

Plus, why Chekhov didn't say anything when the navigator said "hey we're going to Ceti Alpha". because then that would violate the oath he was sworn to.

As for the mixup; I don't think anyone expected Ceti Alpha V's climate to change so dramatically in just 20 years; so they just assumed that it had blown up; and didn't bother doing any detailed checks on spectrography against the 20 year old E-Nil astrographic records (The Reliant is a LOT smaller than a Connie, yet has nearly the same firepower; you got to reduce corners somewhere); so they either must not have had the necessary lab facilities or sensors to do such an analysis, or just didn't give a damn, since their mission was to find a suitable planet for GENESIS, not to find out where planet A went.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-11-05 06:37pm

Kirk's decision could have always been reversed if Starfleet Command found out about it and disagreed with it. I have to wonder if he hushed it up in order to cover up for his own rather glaring command incompetence in that episode. In other words, I wonder if anyone in Starfleet Command even knew about it.

I mean seriously, what the fuck was he thinking when he let Khan browse the goddamned technical manuals for the ship? And why wasn't there regular check-in for the guards posted at his door, so that somebody would notice Khan had escaped before so much time had passed that he was able to revive his entire crew, wait for them to achieve a fighting level of fitness, organize his plan, board the ship, and seize control of the engineering section?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-11-05 08:39pm

Fun Trivia

Khan's recognition of Chekov is a retcon, since "Space Seed" was produced before the character of Chekov was added to the television series. A humorous anecdote Walter Koenig likes to tell at conventions about Khan's recognition of Chekov: while Khan still had free reign of the Enterprise, he entered one of the ship's bathrooms. After waiting for Chekov to leave the only stall, and leaving Khan with no toilet paper, Khan exclaims "I never forget a face, Mr. Chekov!"

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2006-11-05 10:15pm

The first one can be explained away, but the second... How is is possible to miss the fact that a star system known to have at least six planets seems to be missing one of them?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-11-05 10:23pm

Patrick Degan wrote:The first one can be explained away, but the second... How is is possible to miss the fact that a star system known to have at least six planets seems to be missing one of them?

And what the fuck makes a planet spontaneously explode?

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2006-11-05 10:40pm

Patrick Degan wrote:The first one can be explained away, but the second... How is is possible to miss the fact that a star system known to have at least six planets seems to be missing one of them?

What I figured as a kid was Ceti Alpha VI blew up and the explosion sent Cetia Alpha V into an orbit very close to Ceti Alpha VI's. When the Reliant showed up it assumed perhaps that Ceti Alpha V exploded.

Of course that doesn't account for debris would still be in the general orbit of where Ceti Alpha VI was...or that an orbital shift like that would probably kill EVERYONE on Ceti Alpha V. Supermen or not.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-11-05 10:42pm

Mind you, if the planet's orbit had actually changed, you'd think someone would notice, if only because the planet wouldn't be where they expect it to be.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-11-05 10:44pm

This is the trekverse, where shit like this happens on a daily basis, remember?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-11-06 02:40am

MKSheppard wrote:1.) Khan Recognizing Chekhov, despite him not appearing until later in the show.

Checkhov must have been an enlisted crewman or a midshipman/lower ranked ensign on the Enterprise when "Space Seed" happened; and it was after that, that he passed the exams or whatever for promotion, or got promoted to the bridge crew; so it's reasonable that Khan could have seen and met Chekhov off screen in Space Seed.

Welcome to, like, 1983.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-11-06 04:00am

The only person who believed the planet exploded was Khan himself and he didn't exactly have a full astronomical laboratory with him.

Perhaps CA5/6 were a double planet or close planet/moon combination (like Earth and the Moon), where 6 was hit by a meteor or a piece of space debris leading to the environmental catastrophe on 5. To Khan, it may have looked like the planet simply blew up.

As for Chekov, it's not even an error. Space Seed aired before Chekov's first appearance in Catspaw, but the latter has a lower stardate (3018.2 versus 3141.9 for Seed)

Darth Quorthon · Post by **Darth Quorthon** » 2006-11-06 04:19am

In the novelization it states that Ceti Alpha Five and Ceti Alpha Six were "twin planets" where the planet and satellite were the same size, and that Ceti Alpha Six was tectonically unstable, causing it to explode. As for the missing planet, there's a passage about how the initial probe investigation of the system had been done sixty years before, and that errors in probe data and sloppy archival preservation were pretty common. The idea of "twin planets" seems ridiculous, but the idea of probe data being inaccurate seems reasonable. The book also says that Chekov was working on the night watch at the time of "Space Seed". As for Chekov not warning off the Reliant, it says he simply didn't remember, and that no official records were made of Khan. Khan says "ah, you ordinaries with your pitiful memories." Since the book's non-canon, take it with a grain of salt.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2006-11-06 06:29am

Darth Quorthon wrote:In the novelization it states that Ceti Alpha Five and Ceti Alpha Six were "twin planets" where the planet and satellite were the same size, and that Ceti Alpha Six was tectonically unstable, causing it to explode.
<snip>The idea of "twin planets" seems ridiculous

Not to mention a "tectonic" instability leading to a planet exploding, being incredibly stupid

Darth Quorthon · Post by **Darth Quorthon** » 2006-11-06 02:06pm

Mr Flibble wrote:Not to mention a "tectonic" instability leading to a planet exploding, being incredibly stupid

No argument here. I like Bounty's idea of an asteroid striking Ceti Alpha 6. Although I wonder why Reliant didn't pick up any debris. Since the novelization isn't canon, it's possible that they did have to navigate past some debris in the film, and this simply wasn't mentioned.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2006-11-06 03:41pm

Mr Flibble wrote:Not to mention a "tectonic" instability leading to a planet exploding, being incredibly stupid

Yeah, stupid, but this is not the only reference to exploding planets due to tectonic instability. Take that how you will

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2006-11-06 06:30pm

Maybe Ceti Alpha 6 was actually Krypton.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2006-11-06 07:26pm

Well, according to one of the New Frontier books, it went up because of a screwy Iconian-type gate. Of course, if that were the case, then Starfleet is even more screwed up because the away team that set it off came from a Fed starship.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-11-06 08:40pm

Thag wrote:Well, according to one of the New Frontier books, it went up because of a screwy Iconian-type gate. Of course, if that were the case, then Starfleet is even more screwed up because the away team that set it off came from a Fed starship.

How the hell does a funky transportation device blow up planets?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-11-06 08:45pm

E=MC^2? Technically speaking such transport involves massive amounts of power.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-11-06 08:50pm

Alyeska wrote:E=MC^2? Technically speaking such transport involves massive amounts of power.

Only if you can show that the matter has in fact been converted to energy. If it's merely been "transitioned into subspace" or some other technobabble, then it's still matter, not energy. And if it's matter, then counting its energy equivalent as proof of power handling would be like saying that a Toyota 4Runner can handle gigatons of energy because it can carry you and your friends around.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-11-06 08:50pm

Alyeska wrote:E=MC^2? Technically speaking such transport involves massive amounts of power.

Why don't you run E=MC^2 against the energy required to actually blow up a planet and the actual TRANSPORT does. The device facilitating it does not.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-11-06 08:57pm

Its power source might have been incredibly powerful. It seems like it should take an immense amount of power to transport people from one planet to another, which is what a gateway does.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-11-06 09:06pm

CDiehl wrote:Its power source might have been incredibly powerful. It seems like it should take an immense amount of power to transport people from one planet to another, which is what a gateway does.

Ah, another no-science guy. You calculate the amount of energy needed for a feat by comparing before and after energy states, not by going on gut impressions.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2006-11-06 10:45pm

Okay, I found the relevant stuff. From "Cold Wars", pg. 71:

"Your 'interface', as you call it, with the Gateway apparently set off some sort of alarm, which in turn set off a chain reaction. At least that's what the records of the Einstein indicate. It's our suspicion that you stumbled onto more than just a gateway world. There may have been other technology hidden there, waiting to be restarted by the race that had planted it there. But when you came upon it...
It blew up it up...rather than let it all be discovered, probed...the whole planet gone."

A self-destruct makes more sense than an accident, but it still doesn't help Starfleet's case when they HAVE records of the place going up and Reliant still doesn't know it.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-11-06 11:48pm

So the planet was Z'Ha'Dum.

Darth_Vagrant · Post by **Darth_Vagrant** » 2006-12-02 08:00pm

I'm normally not into the EU novels, but a friend loaned me a book awhile back that dealt with Khan's exile in between Space Seed and WoK, in which Chekov is part of the security detail that escorts Khan and his cronies to their new home. A reasonable explanation. The book actually wasn't bad... for a Trek novel. I think it was called "To Rule in Hell".

As for Ceti Alpha VI exploding, perhaps its core was really unstable. I'm not that up to speed on planetary science, but that's the best theory I can come up with. Who knows, maybe one of those Q guys blew it up. In science fiction, anything's possible!

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The Two Plot Flaws in TWOK: Chekhov and Ceti Alpha V.

The Two Plot Flaws in TWOK: Chekhov and Ceti Alpha V.

Re: The Two Plot Flaws in TWOK: Chekhov and Ceti Alpha V.