300 people have clashed with police in London, reports The Telegraph.
Tottenham high street had been taken over by the rioters at 10.30pm GMT, reports The Guardian. It seem serious - reports of police cars and buses set alight, and a police station was looted.
"The police seem very frightened at the moment, people are unstoppable," Tottenham resident Maria Robinson told the BBC. "They've broken into various businesses, jewelery shops, bookies, it's absolutely crazy. They've beaten up a man for talking to the fire brigade."
The riots followed peaceful protests earlier in the day after the death of Mark Duggan. Duggan died earlier this week, after being shot in the backseat of a taxi by armed police officers. The incident was part of Operation Trident, which deals with gun crime in the black community.
More information here. The gist of it is that a local man was shot by police in somewhat dubious circumstances two days ago and a lot of people are extremely pissed off about it. A protest march was organised to pressure the police into a proper investigation, and somehow it all ended up snowballing. That Tottenham has the highest unempoloyment in London cannot have helped.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
300 people have clashed with police in London, reports The Telegraph.
Tottenham high street had been taken over by the rioters at 10.30pm GMT, reports The Guardian. It seem serious - reports of police cars and buses set alight, and a police station was looted.
"The police seem very frightened at the moment, people are unstoppable," Tottenham resident Maria Robinson told the BBC. "They've broken into various businesses, jewelery shops, bookies, it's absolutely crazy. They've beaten up a man for talking to the fire brigade."
The riots followed peaceful protests earlier in the day after the death of Mark Duggan. Duggan died earlier this week, after being shot in the backseat of a taxi by armed police officers. The incident was part of Operation Trident, which deals with gun crime in the black community.
Can any of our resident English explain this more?
Don't the UK police have tasers to prevent fatal shootings like this? (especially after they killed that poor Brazillian kid) Tasers are even safer for police since they IMMEDIATELY subdue a suspect, whereas a fatally shot suspect can still pose a threat.
ComradeClaus wrote:Don't the UK police have tasers to prevent fatal shootings like this? (especially after they killed that poor Brazillian kid) Tasers are even safer for police since they IMMEDIATELY subdue a suspect, whereas a fatally shot suspect can still pose a threat.
This particular incident happened whilst the deceased was in a car, which makes the use of tasers problematic, and in any case it seems to be pretty well-established that shots were fired at the police; the controversy stems from doubts being raised that the man killed by the police was the one who pulled the trigger. This is the Guardian's take on the incident; it's light on details, and it seems that the police are still trying to get the facts straight themselves.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
It must have been brewing for many months and the police killing of suspected career criminal in confused circumstances was the spark that set it off: I'm not surprised this is an area of sky high youth unemployment, clearly the Devil is making work of idle thumbs, but at the end of the day all this seems to be a wasted effort making a crap area crapper.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
Yeah, I think this was just the straw that broke the camels back - there were people on the news earlier talking about Smiley Culture getting killed earlier in the year, as well even older incidents.
The bloke who got shot the other day, if he was a ganger of some variety, may well have been some peoples only means of income, so that can usually elevate someone from 'bastard with a gun' to 'hero who gives us money'
EBC: Northeners, Huh! What are they good for?! Absolutely nothing!
Cybertron, Justice league...MM, HAB SDN City Watch: Sergeant Detritus
Days Unstabbed, Unabused, Unassualted and Unwavedatwithabutchersknife: 0
Dartzap wrote:The bloke who got shot the other day, if he was a ganger of some variety, may well have been some peoples only means of income, so that can usually elevate someone from 'bastard with a gun' to 'hero who gives us money'
That seems to be a pretty big "if" at this point; if he'd been a crook then there wouldn't have been even lip-service to the idea of a peaceful protest.
And as I type this, a senior police officer is claiming on the BBC that the peaceful protest was "hijacked" by some unidentified group from outside the area, and the fact senior police commanders were completely ignoring repeated calls to come out and address the comncerns of the crowd had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.
How someone rises to be senior enough in the Met to be trusted to make a statement to the press whilst being so spectacularly inept at bullshitting is quite beyond me.
Oh, and I might just sig this:
A guy I know, via Facebook wrote:The 80s: the decade that just keeps coming back.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
I wouldn't say the police were goody two shoes when Tottenham blew up on their watch, however what about the shop keepers and other residents that got burnt out of their buildings or the other innocent bystanders who got robbed by opportunists? They're the real victims in this.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
It seems that the Met were not entirely innocent in the matter according to eye witnesses when the low level street disturbance exploded into outright rioting:
One resident, Laurence Bailey, told the Guardian that the violence started after a 16-year-old girl 'threw something, maybe a stone, at the original riot police line'.
He added that this was met with a furious response, with around 15 riot officers pounding her with shields.
This description of events was corroborated by another local who spoke to BBC News. He said that the girl was 'set upon' by police and that the crowd surged forward in anger.
And it's not the shock of the century when I've learned that this low level disaster was partially caused by public service cuts, with cash strapped local youth groups scaling back with their activities and not giving older teens/young adults much to do. Bristol already had a riot almost as bad as the Tottenham disturbance earlier this Summer and I've got a horrible feeling that riots in deprived areas during this ongoing Neo-Depression are inevitably going to flare up now & again.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
The Guardian's now saying that a bullet found lodged in an officer's radio set was "police issue", or at least a hollowpoint of the kind the Met use. Doesn't really prove much either way without ballistically matching it to one of the weapons involved, of course, which is nigh-on impossible with hollowpoints.
Oh, and apparently it's all kicking off in Enfield as well now.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Zaune wrote:
Oh, and apparently it's all kicking off in Enfield as well now.
According to news reports and footage there's only around a hundred malcotents/opportunists that moved onto Enfield - a starkly more upmarket place than Tottenham - and the police were already locking down the place when it was still daylight.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
Quite clear this has nothing to do with the original police shooting. It's just that a lot of people saw an opportunity to get some free crap, hence why it's spread to other areas.
Cleary a perhaps legitimate cause for protest has now just descended into sheer criminality.
I would never place property above keeping people safe but I think the police should be more proactive and forceful in containing and dispersing the looters - many of the victims are small businesses.
It's not just council estates, London is very mixed with all kinds of residences on top of each other.
UnderAGreySky wrote:Hackney, Peckham and Croydon. 'Disturbances' reported in Birmingham, man reportedly shot (but not killed) in Leeds.
I think I'll start to get worried about people I know in this country now.
The pictures are looking pretty terrifying and I would imagine that these riots have successfully undone all the benefits of the Royal Wedding for London's tourist industry.
All of the little shops that are burning have residential flats above them too. Fuckers.
Teebs wrote:It's not just council estates, London is very mixed with all kinds of residences on top of each other.
The pictures are looking pretty terrifying and I would imagine that these riots have successfully undone all the benefits of the Royal Wedding for London's tourist industry.
All of the little shops that are burning have residential flats above them too. Fuckers.
True, but Hackney, Peckham, Walthamstow et al aren't exactly Chelsea, Kensington and Buckinghamshire.
I live in Croydon, so this is happening a few miles down the road. Public transport has been shut down in the town center and there is some smoke visible. To be clear, the affected area is not a 'council estate'; it is a shopping area. This is smash and grab under the cover of arson - at least in Croydon, they aren't burning the places they actually live in.
Teebs wrote:The pictures are looking pretty terrifying
They're 'terrifying' basically because no one can or will put up any resistance. The population is conditioned to rely completely on the police, and the police are either unable or unwilling to respond. Anyone attempting to defend their community would be derided as vigilantes and probably charged with a much worse sentence than the rioters. The rioters themselves don't seem terribly violent or willing to risk personal injury, they just see it as free stuff and a night of fun with virtually zero consequences. They won't even lose their benefits.
I bet taking their benefits would significantly reduce their proclivity to violence, right?
If they're nonviolent they'd be easy to scare off with any body of people; how could that possibly result in any charges?
And seriously anyone shocked that a 'legitimate cause for protest' has turned into a criminal riot is a fucking idiot; no shit. Maybe if the cops had a setting between 'do nothing' and 'kick the shit out of everyone' things wouldn't be so bad for you guys.
UnderAGreySky wrote:Hackney, Peckham and Croydon. 'Disturbances' reported in Birmingham, man reportedly shot (but not killed) in Leeds.
I think I'll start to get worried about people I know in this country now.
You and me both. My brother lives in Birmingham.
And Starglider? I realise this business affects you on a rather more personal level than most of us, but Stark being the voice of reason and good sense is a sign you need to take a few deep breaths.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
