BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5941
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Majin Gojira » 2020-01-21 05:31pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
2020-01-18 09:50pm
bilateralrope wrote:
2020-01-18 09:40pm
It sounds like someone had a completely unrelated story they wrote. Then someone decided to shove it into Discworld to try and make it sell better.
Sort of like what happened to the first "Starship Troopers" film? Bleah...
Nah, that was more active hate for the source material. Or, rather:

"Wow, this book is fascist as hell. Let's make a movie out of it to mock fascism!"

And also:

"I wanna make a giant bug movie, let's go with this since it has soldiers fighting giant bugs!"
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
Iroscato
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2346
Joined: 2011-02-07 03:04pm
Location: Great Britain (It's great, honestly!)

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Iroscato » 2020-01-21 09:04pm

I'm floored and fascinated at how wrong-headed this looks. The actual style and wardrobe, whilst odd, wouldn't necessarily kill it for me - I love me a shakeup of period setting a la Sherlock now and then - but the bastardisation of the source material and cringeworthy wokeness of it all is bloody awful to behold.
I was so looking forward to this, especially when they announced the casting for Vimes. Now I'll probably give it a peek just to see how badly they fuck things up.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

- SirNitram (RIP)

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12866
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Elheru Aran » 2020-01-22 11:49am

Iroscato wrote:
2020-01-21 09:04pm
I'm floored and fascinated at how wrong-headed this looks. The actual style and wardrobe, whilst odd, wouldn't necessarily kill it for me - I love me a shakeup of period setting a la Sherlock now and then - but the bastardisation of the source material and cringeworthy wokeness of it all is bloody awful to behold.
I was so looking forward to this, especially when they announced the casting for Vimes. Now I'll probably give it a peek just to see how badly they fuck things up.
Yeah, their version of Vimes, I can buy. Now normally I'd picture someone a little more Clint Eastwood-esque, but... this isn't bad. A run down cop finding his way out of the bottle, I can see this guy being. Angua is also not terrible. Carrot is meh.

Cherry though... ugh. And the wardrobe and shit? A distinct lack of effort is noted. Frankly, there's a distinct lack of effort about the whole thing from the looks of it...
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 19760
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-01-26 09:57pm

Iroscato wrote:
2020-01-21 09:04pm
I'm floored and fascinated at how wrong-headed this looks. The actual style and wardrobe, whilst odd, wouldn't necessarily kill it for me - I love me a shakeup of period setting a la Sherlock now and then - but the bastardisation of the source material and cringeworthy wokeness of it all is bloody awful to behold.
I was so looking forward to this, especially when they announced the casting for Vimes. Now I'll probably give it a peek just to see how badly they fuck things up.
What is "wokeness"? How does one define it? And why is it offensive?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5941
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Majin Gojira » 2020-01-26 10:11pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 09:57pm
Iroscato wrote:
2020-01-21 09:04pm
I'm floored and fascinated at how wrong-headed this looks. The actual style and wardrobe, whilst odd, wouldn't necessarily kill it for me - I love me a shakeup of period setting a la Sherlock now and then - but the bastardisation of the source material and cringeworthy wokeness of it all is bloody awful to behold.
I was so looking forward to this, especially when they announced the casting for Vimes. Now I'll probably give it a peek just to see how badly they fuck things up.
What is "wokeness"? How does one define it? And why is it offensive?
"Wokeness" is derived from being "Awake" or "Aware" of modern inequalities regarding race, sex, orientation, etc.

It's offensive to some people because it points out that despite advances made, equality between these differences is still a long way off, and they feel like because they aren't bigots who foam at the mouth, they can't be racist in anything they do.

Basically, a person worried about "Wokeness" missed the point of THUD and a lot of Terry's other work by MILES.

Though in this case, the books from over 30 years ago are more culturally sensitive and progressive than it's TV adaptation.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 19760
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-01-26 10:18pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2020-01-26 10:11pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 09:57pm
Iroscato wrote:
2020-01-21 09:04pm
I'm floored and fascinated at how wrong-headed this looks. The actual style and wardrobe, whilst odd, wouldn't necessarily kill it for me - I love me a shakeup of period setting a la Sherlock now and then - but the bastardisation of the source material and cringeworthy wokeness of it all is bloody awful to behold.
I was so looking forward to this, especially when they announced the casting for Vimes. Now I'll probably give it a peek just to see how badly they fuck things up.
What is "wokeness"? How does one define it? And why is it offensive?
"Wokeness" is derived from being "Awake" or "Aware" of modern inequalities regarding race, sex, orientation, etc.

It's offensive to some people because it points out that despite advances made, equality between these differences is still a long way off, and they feel like because they aren't bigots who foam at the mouth, they can't be racist in anything they do.

Basically, a person worried about "Wokeness" missed the point of THUD and a lot of Terry's other work by MILES.

Though in this case, the books from over 30 years ago are more culturally sensitive and progressive than it's TV adaptation.
Well, its certainly true that a lot of writers try to be progressive but, whether through mixed messages/trying to please both sides, or through lack of thought as to the implications of what they're writing, or overly simplistic writing, or because they were never really sincere progressives to begin with, end up botching it horribly. I could imagine this show going down that road, trying to be progressive and doing a really clumsy job of it, though I'll give them some benefit of the doubt for now.

But when that happens, its not because a show was "took woke" (how exactly can one be too concerned about the marginalization of women and minorities?). Its because its badly written.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5941
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Majin Gojira » 2020-01-26 10:24pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 10:18pm
Majin Gojira wrote:
2020-01-26 10:11pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 09:57pm


What is "wokeness"? How does one define it? And why is it offensive?
"Wokeness" is derived from being "Awake" or "Aware" of modern inequalities regarding race, sex, orientation, etc.

It's offensive to some people because it points out that despite advances made, equality between these differences is still a long way off, and they feel like because they aren't bigots who foam at the mouth, they can't be racist in anything they do.

Basically, a person worried about "Wokeness" missed the point of THUD and a lot of Terry's other work by MILES.

Though in this case, the books from over 30 years ago are more culturally sensitive and progressive than it's TV adaptation.
Well, its certainly true that a lot of writers try to be progressive but, whether through mixed messages/trying to please both sides, or through lack of thought as to the implications of what they're writing, or overly simplistic writing, or because they were never really sincere progressives to begin with, end up botching it horribly. I could imagine this show going down that road, trying to be progressive and doing a really clumsy job of it, though I'll give them some benefit of the doubt for now.

But when that happens, its not because a show was "took woke" (how exactly can one be too concerned about the marginalization of women and minorities?). Its because its badly written.
The thing about TV writing (as well as movies) is that it has to get by a LOT of people in order to get put on the air and that can muddy or ruin things as it goes down. Throw in things adaptations have to worry about (IE: a budget) and it's probably why we have Cheery as she is described so far.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 19760
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-01-26 10:26pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2020-01-26 10:24pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 10:18pm
Majin Gojira wrote:
2020-01-26 10:11pm


"Wokeness" is derived from being "Awake" or "Aware" of modern inequalities regarding race, sex, orientation, etc.

It's offensive to some people because it points out that despite advances made, equality between these differences is still a long way off, and they feel like because they aren't bigots who foam at the mouth, they can't be racist in anything they do.

Basically, a person worried about "Wokeness" missed the point of THUD and a lot of Terry's other work by MILES.

Though in this case, the books from over 30 years ago are more culturally sensitive and progressive than it's TV adaptation.
Well, its certainly true that a lot of writers try to be progressive but, whether through mixed messages/trying to please both sides, or through lack of thought as to the implications of what they're writing, or overly simplistic writing, or because they were never really sincere progressives to begin with, end up botching it horribly. I could imagine this show going down that road, trying to be progressive and doing a really clumsy job of it, though I'll give them some benefit of the doubt for now.

But when that happens, its not because a show was "took woke" (how exactly can one be too concerned about the marginalization of women and minorities?). Its because its badly written.
The thing about TV writing (as well as movies) is that it has to get by a LOT of people in order to get put on the air and that can muddy or ruin things as it goes down. Throw in things adaptations have to worry about (IE: a budget) and it's probably why we have Cheery as she is described so far.
Yeah.

I'm a strong believer in democracy in general, but I make a big exception for writing decisions. ;) A couple of co-writers can work, if they know and respect each other and work together to compliment one another, and even the best writers do tend to require some editorial oversight to reign in their worst excesses, but nothing will ever convince me that "written by committee" tends to lead to good results more than having a clear narrative vision from the top.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

streetad
Padawan Learner
Posts: 239
Joined: 2011-06-12 01:02pm
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by streetad » 2020-02-02 04:25pm

It's not 'wokeness' per se, which I think most people would agree is a good thing, and which is already present in the original stories. Featuring a sub-plot about a female dwarf from a species where both males and females traditionally present the same way wants to explore human concepts of femininity and faces varying levels of prejudice or acceptance.

It's the terrible muddle-headed forced 'wokeness' of a corporation desperate to make sure everyone knows which side of the culture war they are on. Where some exec sees a character that has a superficial resemblance to non-binary individuals in real life and decides 'we really need to force that angle as much as possible. Bonus points if we upset some die-hard Pratchett fans on the Internet, so we can call them bigots and stir up some free publicity for the show'

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 19760
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-02-02 08:23pm

streetad wrote:
2020-02-02 04:25pm
It's not 'wokeness' per se, which I think most people would agree is a good thing, and which is already present in the original stories. Featuring a sub-plot about a female dwarf from a species where both males and females traditionally present the same way wants to explore human concepts of femininity and faces varying levels of prejudice or acceptance.

It's the terrible muddle-headed forced 'wokeness' of a corporation desperate to make sure everyone knows which side of the culture war they are on. Where some exec sees a character that has a superficial resemblance to non-binary individuals in real life and decides 'we really need to force that angle as much as possible. Bonus points if we upset some die-hard Pratchett fans on the Internet, so we can call them bigots and stir up some free publicity for the show'
Getting a bit conspiratorial, there. I don't think companies generally want to upset fans (though they generally manage to do so anyway, partly because a lot of fans are unpleasable, and partly because a lot of execs are morons). In fact my impression lately has been that the big companies tend to throw social justice under the bus when push comes to shove, to try to please everyone (See: Rise of Skywalker).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

streetad
Padawan Learner
Posts: 239
Joined: 2011-06-12 01:02pm
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by streetad » 2020-02-03 05:27am

Possibly.

There's a notable absence of any of the non-human Watch members in any of this pre-release stuff, which either points to budgetary issues (never mind the dwarfs, how do they portray a convincing Sgt Detritus, capable of emoting etc with a Doctor Who level budget?) or a lack of faith that the audience will 'get' the fantasy elements. Perhaps that's the only explanation needed for the changes to Cheery's character.

Another thing I noticed is that there is a also a conspicuous lack of the more 'comic relief' members of the Watch in the marketing material, which points a little bit to the type of show they are making.

User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6561
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: BBC America Greenlights "CSI: Ankh-Morpork"

Post by Zaune » 2020-02-05 08:04am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-01-26 10:18pm
But when that happens, its not because a show was "too woke" (how exactly can one be too concerned about the marginalization of women and minorities?). Its because its badly written.
The only way I know of for a work of fiction to be "too woke" is when hammering home the moral lesson the writer wants to impart takes priority over consistent characterisation and a plot that makes sense.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog

Post Reply