Stunning victory for Bundy family as all charges dismissed in 2014 standoff case
Cliven Bundy and sons cleared in case of 2014 armed standoff, a major defeat for the federal government that critics fear will empower far-right militia groups
A judge has dismissed conspiracy charges against rancher Cliven Bundy and his sons, marking an extraordinary failure by US prosecutors and a decisive victory for the Nevada family who ignited a land rights movement in the American west.
The Bundys, who led armed standoffs against the government in Nevada and Oregon, galvanizing far-right militia groups, saw all charges dismissed in Las Vegas on Monday. It was the second major court win for the ranchers in their decades-long battle to oppose federal land regulations.
Cliven Bundy, 71, and his sons Ammon and Ryan were accused of assault, threats against the government, firearms offenses and obstruction, stemming from the family’s refusal to pay grazing fees for their cattle in Nevada, which escalated into an armed conflict at their ranch in 2014. The judge declared a mistrial in December and ruled on Monday that prosecutors could not retry the case, arguing that the US attorney’s office had willfully withheld evidence and engaged in misconduct.
Angie Bundy, Ryan’s wife, said she hoped the ruling would boost states’ rights and encourage federal regulators to leave ranchers alone.
“The federal government is overstepping so many bounds. I’m hoping they will let states and counties do their jobs and stay out of our land,” she told the Guardian by phone from court. “I hear from ranchers all the time about the horrible abuses they are enduring. I’m hoping this will give some people relief.”
The stunning defeat for the government – which has also been accused of lying and deceptive tactics in their prosecution of the Bundys – outraged environmental groups that have advocated the punishment of ranchers who defy land-use laws and have supported tighter regulations to protect public lands.
“It’s just a horrific outcome,” said Kieran Suckling, executive director of the Center for Biological Diversity. “This is going to empower both the militia and the politicians who want to steal America’s public lands. It’s an absolute disaster.”
The Bundys first made international headlines in 2014 when the government attempted to seize their cattle, but retreated in the face of hundreds of supporters at the family ranch in Bunkerville, some heavily armed. Emboldened by the victory, Ammon and Ryan helped lead a takeover of the Malheur national wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon in January 2016 to protest against the imprisonment of two local ranchers.
That standoff ended after police killed one of the leaders and arrested the Bundys and their followers. US prosecutors subsequently charged the family and dozens of other men with conspiracy and other charges for both the Nevada and Oregon cases.
A jury found the Bundys not guilty in Oregon in 2016, a surprise verdict that increased pressure on the federal government to secure a conviction in Nevada. But the case unraveled after defense attorneys argued that prosecutors failed to disclose evidence relating to government surveillance cameras and snipers at the ranch during the 2014 dispute. Last month, the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, directed a US justice department expert to assist in the case.
Suckling pointed out that Bundy’s cattle continue to graze on federal lands in violation of the law and argued that the decision could encourage supporters to launch new conflicts to fight for unregulated grazing, mining and logging on public lands. “I’m really distraught and outraged at the prosecution and the FBI for their incompetence.”
Cliven Bundy, who became a hero to some rightwing activists in the west and has been in jail for nearly two years, emerged from court on Monday wearing a cowboy hat, telling reporters: “I’m feeling pretty good … I’m not used to being free. I’ve been a political prisoner.”
Angie said she was grateful to hear the judge Gloria Navarro reprimand prosecutors.
“Her words today gave me some hope in the justice system,” she said, adding, “We are so excited to get grandpa home and get our family back together.”
Like I posted in the thread back then about those assholes occupying a native american reservation and destroying artifacts - it would have been far better had the government just sent in the troops. Because I feared back then that nothing was going to happen - and now the prosecution clearly decided to throw the case.
These fucks continue to graze illegally on public land and continue to thieve from the public. Can we all agree that in the future the troops need to go in right from the start?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
The trouble with that line of reasoning is twofold. For one thing, the precedent it sets could be very problematic for Black Lives Matter, Antifa or some successor to Occupy should they start bringing armed security to protest marches, which for better or worse they probably will at some point.
The other problem is that, frankly, staging a sit-in protest because you think you're being overcharged for grazing your cattle on public land is not a terribly heinous crime in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not enough to justify the amount of bloodshed that would result from going in with the heavy mob.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
To be clear, are the charges related to the open-air standoff in or near the Bundys' ranch (translation: area in which they hunt feral cattle formerly owned by their rancher ancestors)?
Or are they related to the armed occupation of a site on... Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, now that I remember?
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-01-08 06:32pmThese fucks continue to graze illegally on public land and continue to thieve from the public. Can we all agree that in the future the troops need to go in right from the start?
No. Fuck your fascism and summery execution of people who's politics you disagree with. The Malheur occupation was rightly compared to the Colfax massacre, which was wrong then and would have been wrong now.
PS, just because the police said that they damaged artifacts doesn't mean that they actually damaged artifacts. I'm disinclined to believe that that actually happened because of the blatant lying that went around regarding vanilla isis's latrine pits.
This entire incident was a clusterfuck from beginning to end on every side. It started with a wildfire, which some cowliphate members try to keep off their land by starting a "backblaze" after being told not to. The backblaze gets out of control and forces some firefighters who were battling the first fire to withdraw. The government charges the cowliphs with "terroristic arson" instead of regular plain old arson, which carries a mandatory minimum sentence.
The judge says "that's bullshit" and sentences them to less than the minimum. The prosecutor in the case appeals (I didn't even know they could appeal a verdict, only defense), and gets a ruling that the Cowliphs have to go back to prison, having been let out after completing the below minimum sentence.
So already every person involved has done something that at least qualifies as "boneheaded". Also, why the fuck was this case not appealed to the supreme court? These are great defendants for a test case striking down mandatory minimums, IE they are white and probably reasonably rich if they own a lot of land and cattle.
Meanwhile Vanilla ISIS is in nevada going
Stop
Mobilize and listen#VanillaISIS back w/ a brand new militia
BLM grab the land so tightly
Illegally graze my cattle nightly
Bum dumb dumb da da dumb dumb. Bum dumb dumb dumb da da. Vanilla ISIS baby!
Then some more members of Y'all Qaeda get involved by... "occupying" a bird sanctuary and it's gift shop. WTF? What did you think that was going to accomplish? This isn't exactly storming the Bastille here. So people mostly just write off these Yokel Haram guys.
Including apparently the FBI who just sit and wait outside the bird sanctuary/gift shop. They don't restrict travel from or even to the camp, or try in anyway to restrict supplies to the Yee-hawdists. They were driving government owned trucks up to the local kmart on grocery runs.
Finally, several months later the fbi decide to ambush some of the leaders of the Talibundy while they are driving. During the ambush one gets out and decides that he wants to get martyred so he can go to heaven and get his 72 cousins.
And to cap off that that half-decade long dumpster fire, almost all of Yokel Haram's trials end in jury nullification.
What we really need to take from this is there are serious problems at the FBI. You don't get a case dismissed like this without breathtaking misconduct. This combined with one of their supposedly most elite agents getting busted for covering up firing his weapon during the Oregon case is telling. The FBI are a keystone cops operation. They got too used to framing up Muslims where no one gives a damn.
Frankly I'm infuriated at them because now the militias are right to say the government is out to get them and is acting illegally to do it. Also because I have to deal with the militia fuckwit problem as part of my job as a federal fire fighter. Thanks FBI for making my job harder and making it easier for morons to despoil things I care about!
Simon_Jester wrote: ↑2018-01-08 09:00pm
To be clear, are the charges related to the open-air standoff in or near the Bundys' ranch (translation: area in which they hunt feral cattle formerly owned by their rancher ancestors)?
Or are they related to the armed occupation of a site on... Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, now that I remember?
The charges just dismissed were related to the open air standoff in Nevada. The federal case in Oregon had previously been fucked by the government with the only convictions being those who pled guilty.
Zaune wrote: ↑2018-01-08 08:42pm
The other problem is that, frankly, staging a sit-in protest because you think you're being overcharged for grazing your cattle on public land is not a terribly heinous crime in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not enough to justify the amount of bloodshed that would result from going in with the heavy mob.
We have covered this already. This is not a sit-in. Why you falsely continue to assist it is despite being told exactly why it is not is beyond me.
Dominus Atheos wrote: ↑2018-01-08 09:12pm
No. Fuck your fascism and summery execution of people who's politics you disagree with. The Malheur occupation was rightly compared to the Colfax massacre, which was wrong then and would have been wrong now.
How are the situations even comparative?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-01-09 04:44amWe have covered this already. This is not a sit-in. Why you falsely continue to assist it is despite being told exactly why it is not is beyond me.
Hang on, hang on. Are these the guys who locked themselves in a closed park ranger's office, made an appeal for a supply run of Twinkies and beer on Twitter and got mailed a literal bag of dicks, or am I getting them mixed up with another group?
Although either way, I still don't think a dispute over grazing rights warrants blood being spilled, however big a bunch of posturing macho idiots the supposedly aggreived party might be.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-01-09 04:44amWe have covered this already. This is not a sit-in. Why you falsely continue to assist it is despite being told exactly why it is not is beyond me.
Hang on, hang on. Are these the guys who locked themselves in a closed park ranger's office, made an appeal for a supply run of Twinkies and beer on Twitter and got mailed a literal bag of dicks, or am I getting them mixed up with another group?
Besides that they also decided to point weapons at federal agents and positioned snipers.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
It's the same guys. The guys committed two... armed collective acts, let us say.
One act was an open air protest/standoff in the rural area near the Bundy ranch. There were issues with that (I do not recall) that led off to a standoff.
The other was the armed occupation of facilities on Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
These actions were committed by the same general group of people, and led by (among others) the Bundys.
...
I'm very frustrated at the FBI's mishandling of the charges.
Simon_Jester wrote: ↑2018-01-09 11:55am
I'm very frustrated at the FBI's mishandling of the charges.
Don't tell me you believe these were mistakes and not an intentional fuck up by the prosecution (not the FBI).
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
This entire incident was a clusterfuck from beginning to end on every side. It started with a wildfire, which some cowliphate members try to keep off their land by starting a "backblaze" after being told not to. The backblaze gets out of control and forces some firefighters who were battling the first fire to withdraw. The government charges the cowliphs with "terroristic arson" instead of regular plain old arson, which carries a mandatory minimum sentence.
The judge says "that's bullshit" and sentences them to less than the minimum. The prosecutor in the case appeals (I didn't even know they could appeal a verdict, only defense), and gets a ruling that the Cowliphs have to go back to prison, having been let out after completing the below minimum sentence.
So already every person involved has done something that at least qualifies as "boneheaded". Also, why the fuck was this case not appealed to the supreme court? These are great defendants for a test case striking down mandatory minimums, IE they are white and probably reasonably rich if they own a lot of land and cattle.
The defense attorneys for the Cowliphate may well not want to strike down mandatory minimum sentencing? Granted it's not certain, more of a speculation.
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-01-08 06:32pmThese fucks continue to graze illegally on public land and continue to thieve from the public. Can we all agree that in the future the troops need to go in right from the start?
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
It's hard to find people here that would argue deescalation on the part of law enforcement is a bad idea. It, generally, worked in this situation and the perpetrators were rounded up with little violence. When you start rooting for boots on throats because one faction of jokers can't (or won't) do their job, you're entering "fucking moronic" territory.
Anyways, doing some reading, there's a whole heap of resentment in agriculture against the BLM and EPA, at a level I haven't noticed coming out of Texas. Both flex their weight against private business in a manner they won't bother with when it comes to big business. I deal with the EPA,TCEQ, etc in my own way down here and the kids gloves way they handle midstream companies dumping tons of crude/brine on private property borders on criminal.
Either way, it might be hard to find judges and juries that are willing to give these jokers a fair shake, even less so when misconduct it easy to find.
I've got no love for the Bundy crew, but like the IRS: the EPA seems to enjoy going after people with less means to defend themselves and situations like this can end up being the price they pay.The Bundys themselves seem like a bunch of rich fucks, but it's still easier for a jury to side with them over the Federal Govt.
The Alt. Reich/militia types will of course take this as validation, as proof that what the Bundys did was legitimate, and that they were innocent victims. They aren't. They are domestic terrorists, who engaged in an armed insurrection, made threats (including to use women and children as human shields), and ought to spend the remainder of their lives in federal prison, and if they had done the exact same thing while being non-white and/or Muslim, we would have had every Right-wing talking head screaming for the National Guard to be sent against them.
But I am as angry as any conservative loon at the Federal government's handling of this situation. Through shear incompetence, the Justice Department and FBI have set a precedent that you can commit armed insurrection with near-impunity on American soil. I would consider this the greatest national security failing of Obama's Presidency, were it not for the fact that he closed his Presidency by allowing Putin to steal our government from under his nose.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
