Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Crazedwraith
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2020-11-20 04:54pm This is followed up by the BBC's report today that Rishi Sunak is seriously considering a pay freeze for all public sector workers to help offset all the borrowing the government's doing to pay for Covid.

So all those who the government kept saying were key workers, critically important, vital to keeping things going, and encouraging everyone to clap for on Thursday evenings...yup, they're stuffed.

Yes this does include me, just in case the bitter tone didn't give it away. Bastards.

Of course we're not going to pay you more. We clapped didn't we? That's basically the same thing.

To be honest, I'd forgotten they'd ended the last pay freeze.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Well they sort-of did. They stopped capping pay rises at 1%, but said that anything beyond that had to come from existing budgets. So if you can shuffle stuff around, or get rid of some people, you can manage it.

Of course, the Ministry of Justice is replete with non-entities ripe for such a culling but alas they survived. Bastards.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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A good and watchable video on the ridiculous antisemitism stuff going on the UK.

https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/stat ... 2446263298
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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In related news, Corbyn is back in the party after suspension, but the whip has been withheld from him. Apparently he's not too happy about it.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2020-11-28 02:44pmIn related news, Corbyn is back in the party after suspension, but the whip has been withheld from him. Apparently he's not too happy about it.
He's not the only one. My local branch of Labour has had no fewer than four officers resign over it, and that just covers this town and a couple of villages on the outskirts. Doesn't help that Starmer is clearly acting out of spite because the National Executive Committee overruled him on the grounds that Corbyn hadn't broken any actual rules; the only action they took was an apparently non-binding request that he apologise for making the party leader look a bit silly in public.

At this point I wonder if Corbyn and his supporters wouldn't be better off splitting off to form an actual proper social democrat party while the centrist wing of Labour merge with the Lib Dems or something. And I know FPTP makes that kind of a gamble, but what do we have left to lose? Bad enough that anyone who thought Blair went too far has had their continued support of the party taken for granted for the last fifteen years, but when we finally decided that enough was enough and chose a leader who was willing to listen to us the party establishment were prepared to forfeit the election rather than work with him. I fail to see how we could be doing any worse as a separate party, even assuming we'd be a minority mostly composed of relative newbies like I'm sure the centrists will claim.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/sta ... 5020818434
Peter Mandelson just told me this at @JewishLabour conference: in short, he said, Labour can't allow the left to legalise party management as it did in the 1980s. So ERHC recommendation of an independent disciplinary process cannot stand.
I am utterly unsurprised at the hypocrisy. At this point I feel like it's the same as with Trump, he just keeps doing insane disgusting shit and eventually people stop caring so everything slides off him that would've destroyed any other politician.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2020-11-27 04:40am A good and watchable video on the ridiculous antisemitism stuff going on the UK.

https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/stat ... 2446263298
So, funny story, but the woman in that video (Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi) has been suspended from the Labour party, along with the chair of the CLP she's vice-chair of (Gary Lifley). The inciting incident appears to have been a local party meeting on Monday, where Lifley and Wimborne-Idrissi both spoke out against how Corbyn's been treated.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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We're now getting into gunboat diplomacy and prepping to send ships out to guard UK waters on Dec 31 if no deal is reached.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Britons told not to stockpile food ahead of January

What's the betting everyone will now stockpile just like the start if the year,
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Crazedwraith wrote: 2020-12-13 12:54pmWhat's the betting everyone will now stockpile just like the start if the year,
People stopped doing that over there?

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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0ct0r »

Raw Shark wrote: 2020-12-13 01:11pm
Crazedwraith wrote: 2020-12-13 12:54pmWhat's the betting everyone will now stockpile just like the start if the year,
People stopped doing that over there?
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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A friend of mine from England says that local people are against Brexit. But at the same time they are sick and tired of Brussels civil servants who constantly say Britain what to do in terms of its politics.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Russo Stark wrote: 2020-12-15 07:45am A friend of mine from England says that local people are against Brexit. But at the same time they are sick and tired of Brussels civil servants who constantly say Britain what to do in terms of its politics.
Point one - There are no civil servants deciding politics - there are elected Politicians doing it, and the member states leaders doing it.
What "civil servants" are telling the member states what they should be doing? Name one...

Point two - all decisions have to be done with one voice - each state has a veto. So anything implemented has been approved by the UK.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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I ordered a parcel from the UK recently. I wonder if it will escape the brexit chaos.

I am imagening the process will be something like this.

Image
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by LaCroix »

His Divine Shadow wrote: 2020-12-17 07:08am I ordered a parcel from the UK recently. I wonder if it will escape the brexit chaos.

I am imagening the process will be something like this.

Image
You forgot the part where the Millenium Falcon has to stop and take a multi-day break on a (most likely flooded) parking lot in Kent before continuing to escape the blast :mrgreen:
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Vendetta »

Russo Stark wrote: 2020-12-15 07:45am A friend of mine from England says that local people are against Brexit. But at the same time they are sick and tired of Brussels civil servants who constantly say Britain what to do in terms of its politics.
They have been told by the papers to be sick and tired of Brussels telling them what to do, but cannot actually name a specific instance of that happening.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

Vendetta wrote: 2020-12-17 08:40am
Russo Stark wrote: 2020-12-15 07:45am A friend of mine from England says that local people are against Brexit. But at the same time they are sick and tired of Brussels civil servants who constantly say Britain what to do in terms of its politics.
They have been told by the papers to be sick and tired of Brussels telling them what to do, but cannot actually name a specific instance of that happening.
The only way any of it makes sense is as emotion and instinct winning out over reasoned argument and evidence. Brexiters believe in Brexit because it is emotionally satisfying to do so, and they find it emotionally satisfying because they are unhappy.

Why they are unhappy, I suppose, depends on who one believes the Brexiters to be. If it was indeed poorer northern voters who won it, then one can trace it back to the economic changes of the late 20th century, and arguably further than that. If it was the better-off and older generations who won it, then it was likely due to social changes from the 60's and 70's onwards. Either way, it was a population of closet reactionaries who hated the way Britain was going, and wanted to drag it back into a largely imagined past; whether it was a past where they had jobs they could be part of and a sense of belonging and contribution, or a past in which their values and beliefs were dominant, and they effectively had the right to shun and mistreat anyone who could not or would not live up to them. It may well be a bit of both.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Do they even know it's Covid time?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1339525764560134145
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

My brother sent me a link to that earlier. It's brilliantly put together - and savage.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Somehow, it got worse.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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I understand that a 'deal' of some sort might have been at least provisionally signed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 76088.html
Brexit trade deal agreed at last minute

A deal was stuck by chief negotiators David Frost and Michel Barnier in Brussels

Andrew Woodcock
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1 day ago

Boris Johnson caved in on fish to avert a no-deal Brexit, securing a last-minute trade and security deal with the EU which left business just seven days to prepare for seismic changes to the way they operate.

Industry leaders breathed a sigh of relief after the Christmas Eve announcement of a zero-tariff zero-quota free trade agreement on imports and exports totalling around £668bn a year.

But fishermen voiced “frustration and anger” as the prime minister settled for a cut of just 25 per cent in the EU’s share of the catch in UK waters, phased in over five and a half years – compared to the 80 per cent over three years initially demanded by the UK – and failed to secure an immediate 12-mile exclusion zone to protect inshore waters.

Barrie Deas, chief executive of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, said: “In the end it was clear that Boris Johnson wanted an overall trade deal and was willing to sacrifice fishing. I think the industry will be extremely disappointed.”

Mr Johnson accepted that the UK had given ground on access to fishing waters, but insisted that the compromise outcome represented “a reasonable transition period”.

“I can assure great fish fanatics in this country that we will as a result of this deal be able to catch and eat quite prodigious quantities of extra fish,” he said.

The prime minister said that the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement had allowed Britain to “win freedom”, hailing the removal of any role for the European Court of Justice in overseeing future relations.

“We have taken back control of our laws and our destiny. We have taken back control of every jot and tittle of our regulation in a way which is complete and unfettered,” he said.

“We have today resolved the question that has bedevilled our politics for decades and it is up to us all together as a newly and truly independent nation to realise the immensity of this moment and to make the most of it."

He said that the UK would be in a “giant free trade zone” with the EU but would not have to obey Brussels rules and would be able to strike further deals with other countries around the world.

But he wrongly suggested that the deal removed all non-tariff barriers to trade, when in fact the government admits that more than 200 million additional customs declaration forms annually will just part of the extra friction faced by UK business.

Downing Street pointed to what it claimed as a series of negotiation wins, including the defeat of an EU proposal for a “ratchet” allowing Brussels to penalise the UK automatically for diverging from its standards and regulations. Instead, either side will be able to take action only on changes which have a clear impact on trade and a panel of experts will arbitrate on disputes.

The prime minister took an emollient tone in his remarks following the conclusion of negotiations, declaring that the UK would remain “culturally, emotionally, historically, strategically and geologically attached to Europe” and suggesting that the EU will benefit from having “a prosperous and dynamic and contented UK on your doorstep”.

But European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen was regretful about the result of the Brexit vote of 2016, quoting the Beatles, TS Eliot and Shakespeare as she sent a message to Britain: “Parting is such sweet sorrow.”

She said the outcome of discussions stretching back to Britain’s formal departure from the EU on 31 January was “fair and balanced”.

But she echoed the feelings of many in the EU who are tired of battles with Britain when she said: “To all Europeans, I say, it is time to leave Brexit behind. Our future is made in Europe.”

And she pointedly contrasted Brexiteers’ isolationist concept of sovereignty with the strength gained by EU states by banding together.

“We should cut through the soundbites and ask ourselves what sovereignty actually means in the 21st century,” she said.

“It is about pooling our strength and speaking together in a world full of great powers. In a time of crisis, it is about pulling each other up instead of trying to get back to your feet alone.”

French president Emmanuel Macron, widely seen as the main obstacle to a deal, congratulated chief negotiator Michel Barnier for his “tenacity and commitment”, declaring: “European solidarity has shown its strength”. His comments removed any lingering doubt that the agreement will be approved by the 27 EU member states when their diplomats meet on Christmas Day.

And Sir Keir Starmer assured the deal of a safe passage through the House of Commons by announcing that Labour will vote for it when parliament is recalled on 30 December.

The Labour leader denounced Mr Johnson’s deal as “thin” but said his MPs had no other option than to back it to avoid the “devastating” consequences of no deal.

He warned the prime minister: “Up against no deal, we accept this deal, but the consequences of it are yours and yours alone. We will hold you to account for it every second you are in power … No longer can you blame somebody else. Responsibility for this deal lies squarely at the door of No 10.”

Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon said that the agreement was a reminder that Brexit was “happening against Scotland’s will”.

But in Northern Ireland – which stands to benefit economically by remaining a part of the UK inside the EU customs territory – first minister Arlene Foster welcomed “a new era” in relations between the EU and UK and said she wanted to “maximise the opportunities the new arrangements provide for our local economy”.

The director general of the Confederation of British Industry, Tony Danker, said the that the deal would come as “a huge relief” to British business, allowing companies to “begin our new chapter on firmer ground”.

And Helen Dickinson of the British Retail Consortium said: “Given that four-fifths of UK food imports come from the EU, today’s announcement should afford households around the UK a collective sigh of relief.”

Marley Morris, of the IPPR think tank, described the deal as a “remarkably weak” framework for future relations with the UK’s closest neighbour and biggest trading partner.

“In many respects this agreement isn’t far off a no deal,” he said. “Crucially, this deal will not prevent the introduction of major trade barriers between the UK and the EU in one week’s time.”
Well, Bojo had to concede on something, and it looks like it was fishing.

For all that, I sincerely doubt that this is over. Bojo is trying to ram this through parliament before anyone has had time to read it; or so it appears. The ERG has claimed that their 'star chamber' lawyers are going over it with a fine-toothed comb, and I strongly suspect that they will find things they don't like. For one, though not mentioned in this article, the zero-tariff agreement requires Britain to align with EU regulations; so any of the divergence Bojo has been loudly promising will result in tariffs.

Also, for some strange reason, Scottish seed potatoes are not included in the allowed foot exports. So we can quite possibly add Scottish potato farmers and fishermen to the independence vote. :lol:

As for the Labour Party, Starmer is claiming that he will support the deal, and that he will whip his MPs to vote for it; citing responsible statesmanship. As a result, he is facing a front-bench rebellion, and a lot of anger among supporters. Details are unfortunately thin on the ground. The Liberal Democrats have come out against it, as have the SNP.

The retains the potential to get interesting.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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He conceeded pretty much on everything - fishing is pretty much all gone the EU way, trade (which the EU will benefit from) is pretty much open, services (which the UK would benefit from) is pretty much not a part of this agreement.

All hinges on the UK keeping regulations close to the EU, even keeping up with regulatory changes that may come in the future (which the UK now has no say in, anymore), with the EU retaining the right to "corrective measures"when they see fit.

He pretty much rolled over, knowing that the no deal would explode into his face worse that this deal would. (Which he pretty much could have gotten years ago - this is pretty much exactly what was proposed by the EU at the begin of the transition phase.)

Now watch him trying to shift the blame/ignore the regulations/talk his way outof compliance, as usual.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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How long until his party loses power, and the party that replaces goes 'look, there all gormless idiots, can we come back in? With specific measures in place so idiots can't try to pull this again until say, 2070?'
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

Next election is in 2024 barring a vote to have it early. Given all scotland now goes SNP, there's little chance the Tories won't get back in unless things go really tits up.

Even then there's no real determination anywhere to raise Brexit again.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

The deal has been voted through; 521 to 73. It now must go to the Lords, and must become law before midnight tomorrow night.

I feel...not much of anything really.
Crazedwraith wrote: 2020-12-30 09:22am Next election is in 2024 barring a vote to have it early. Given all scotland now goes SNP, there's little chance the Tories won't get back in unless things go really tits up.

Even then there's no real determination anywhere to raise Brexit again.
Scotland going SNP at the very least, with outright independence seeming increasingly likely. At the very earliest something will happen next May, if the SNP or pro-independence parties control the Scottish Assembly.
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