Moronic technology of the Matrix

[Junghalli]

About the food problem: the machines apparently do have a way of creating enough food to keep the current human population alive. Otherwise the Matrix's inhabitants would all starve to death in their pods. As a guess I'd say the human resistance was planning on adapting it to create food for the liberated humans.

Of course this makes the whole idea of the Matrix even more nonsensical, as whatever process they're using to create or synthesize that food would almost certainly use up more energy than they get out of the humans they're feeding it to...

[PeZook]

Of course this makes the whole idea of the Matrix even more nonsensical, as whatever process they're using to create or synthesize that food would almost certainly use up more energy than they get out of the humans they're feeding it to...

Naturally. This and other problems are exactly why they should've drooped the entire "matrix as a powerplant" angle in th sequels. Or not do sequels at all, which probably would've been so much the better solution.

[Gandalf]

Remember to when Neo was liberated. They had to rebuild his muscles, and then deal with the psychological impact of everying he'd even known being part of a big simulation.

How are they going to do this for the human population?

[PeZook]

Remember to when Neo was liberated. They had to rebuild his muscles, and then deal with the psychological impact of everying he'd even known being part of a big simulation.

How are they going to do this for the human population?

They are very similar to modern anarchists. I'm guessing they just want to destroy the system and hope everything works out by itself.

In short, they live in la-la land, or are fully aware that 99% of the enslaved population will die when the system is destroyed, they just don't care.

After all, they are indoctrinated during their training to treat everyone inside the Matrix as an enemy. How many civilians must've died when Neo went to get Morpheus back, bombed the building and crashed a helicopter into an office block? Lots, probably. But they just don't care, just as they don't when they kill cops in droves.

[Big Orange]

After all, they are indoctrinated during their training to treat everyone inside the Matrix as an enemy. How many civilians must've died when Neo went to get Morpheus back, bombed the building and crashed a helicopter into an office block? Lots, probably.

I imagine at least thirty people died when that military gunship crashed into the side of that office building (unless the building was mostly empty and was being renovated) - the Agent's HQ was described as "military controlled" and the elevator bomb explosion that spread throughout the ruined lobby full of dead/incapacitated military troops perhaps did not outright kill any civilians in the building (although the explosion's shock may have injured people in the office floors or pedestrians wanderin the street outside).

But they just don't care, just as they don't when they kill cops in droves.

The heavily armed guards in the lobby area and on the rooftop looked more like army/marine soldiers dressed in urban BDUs rather than Police SWAT - but Neo and Trinity's very casual attitude towards killing many dozens of ignorant, relatively innocent law enforcement and military personnel is pretty shocking.

[KrauserKrauser]

Every person they don't kill is an Agent in waiting, preumably they are helping them out by making sure they don't get reprogrammed into an Agent, which looks to be a one way transfer.

It makes sense that they would kill them to be able to accomplish their mission, the good of the many and all that.

[PeZook]

It makes sense that they would kill them to be able to accomplish their mission, the good of the many and all that.

Oh, come on. Trinity could have easily incapacitated the cops who were in that room with her, but she started killing them in extremely painful ways. If they cared at least a little bit about the people they were supposedly trying to "save", they would have made sure their guys have a way of dealing with people other than "shoot them" or "mangle them in hand-to-hand".

Of course, everyone is an agent (in their eyes) so it's ok to murder them. You know, pre-emptively.

[PeZook]

Ghetto edit: I meant in the room at the beginning of the first movie, sorry.

[Big Orange]

Every person they don't kill is an Agent in waiting, preumably they are helping them out by making sure they don't get reprogrammed into an Agent, which looks to be a one way transfer.

If it was a one way transfer then how come the body of the Agent that Trinity shoots in the head immediately reverts back into the army/marine helicopter pilot he was possessing? But when a Agent's signature possesses random bystander or one of their minions (like the pilot, that lone SWAT teamer and the soldiers guarding the corridor) how do you think the process is permanent and lethal? It’s implied that Neo (when still plugged in) was possessed by Agent Smith following their interrogation the plantation of that bug - it was odd that he suddenly found himself back in his apartment.

[Big Orange]

Oh, come on. Trinity could have easily incapacitated the cops who were in that room with her, but she started killing them in extremely painful ways. If they cared at least a little bit about the people they were supposedly trying to "save", they would have made sure their guys have a way of dealing with people other than "shoot them" or "mangle them in hand-to-hand".

Of course, everyone is an agent (in their eyes) so it's ok to murder them. You know, pre-emptively.

I too was taken aback by how she outright killed two or three of the police officers in a particularly ruthless manner when she could’ve very easily escaped or overpowered them without using lethal force (ditto for the rather soft and harmless looking security guards that Neo and Trinity mercilessly mowed down with SMG fire in opening seconds of the lobby battle).

[K. A. Pital]

They are very similar to modern anarchists.

They're worse.

Modern anarchists, especially the more sensible wings like anarcho-syndicalism, at least have some sort of plan and functioning structures (even if their scalability to the entire society is questionable).

The Matrix people have nothing, the destruction of the machines means certain death. No alternatives. No alternative power structures, no production capacities, not even _ANY_ human habitat (the Zion deep shelter was created by humans with the help of machines and was a machine idea all along - ain't that nice, eh?)

I was sort of thinking they were working to "liberate" humans in the Matrix first (to give them super-powers inside the Matrix) as a goal, but destroying the machines is nonsense.

[KrauserKrauser]

If it was a one way transfer then how come the body of the Agent that Trinity shoots in the head immediately reverts back into the army/marine helicopter pilot he was possessing? But when a Agent's signature possesses random bystander or one of their minions (like the pilot, that lone SWAT teamer and the soldiers guarding the corridor) how do you think the process is permanent and lethal? It’s implied that Neo (when still plugged in) was possessed by Agent Smith following their interrogation the plantation of that bug - it was odd that he suddenly found himself back in his apartment.

At no point do we see on screen an Agent take over random chode's body and then leave said chode until death where they then take over another random chode. Going from on screen evidence, when an Agent takes over another person, he replaces that person until death, where they abandon the construct of the person and take over another one. It is a one way process in that the agent takes over and the persson is discarded, they don't come back from being taken over.

You are pulling that "taken over by Agent Smith" thing right out of your ass. At no point was it assumed Agent Smith took over, just that they knocked him out and he woke up the next morning without much in the way of memories. Drugs will do that quite easily thank you very much. They can aapearantly rewrite code aletring the physical characteristeics of people, seems pretty trivial to restrict access to memories.

[Uraniun235]

It makes sense that they would kill them to be able to accomplish their mission, the good of the many and all that.

Oh, come on. Trinity could have easily incapacitated the cops who were in that room with her, but she started killing them in extremely painful ways. If they cared at least a little bit about the people they were supposedly trying to "save", they would have made sure their guys have a way of dealing with people other than "shoot them" or "mangle them in hand-to-hand".

Of course, everyone is an agent (in their eyes) so it's ok to murder them. You know, pre-emptively.

Much as I hate to quote this guy...

"You've worked as a policeman your whole life, protecting the innocent, enforcing the law. You retire with honors, then take a job as a security guard, working the metal detector on the ground floor of a skyscraper in order to help pay for your wife's arthritis medication. You're sitting there, on a slow day, reading your newspaper, when a girl walks in wearing a trenchcoat. She issues no demands, no warnings, no "freeze" or "drop your gun." She just tears you in half with a spray of machine-gun fire, then does cartwheels along the walls while killing all your friends.

Somewhere, faintly, you can hear a theater audience cheering."

[Molyneux]

If it was a one way transfer then how come the body of the Agent that Trinity shoots in the head immediately reverts back into the army/marine helicopter pilot he was possessing? But when a Agent's signature possesses random bystander or one of their minions (like the pilot, that lone SWAT teamer and the soldiers guarding the corridor) how do you think the process is permanent and lethal? It’s implied that Neo (when still plugged in) was possessed by Agent Smith following their interrogation the plantation of that bug - it was odd that he suddenly found himself back in his apartment.

At no point do we see on screen an Agent take over random chode's body and then leave said chode until death where they then take over another random chode. Going from on screen evidence, when an Agent takes over another person, he replaces that person until death, where they abandon the construct of the person and take over another one. It is a one way process in that the agent takes over and the persson is discarded, they don't come back from being taken over.

You are pulling that "taken over by Agent Smith" thing right out of your ass. At no point was it assumed Agent Smith took over, just that they knocked him out and he woke up the next morning without much in the way of memories. Drugs will do that quite easily thank you very much. They can aapearantly rewrite code aletring the physical characteristeics of people, seems pretty trivial to restrict access to memories.

The Matrix comics show people being abandoned by Agents several times. It IS a temporary thing; the human has no memory of being 'overwritten', but maintains any injuries that the agent suffered. (One woman in particular lost most of her arm and has no idea how.)

It's also been established that damage past a certain point can prevent someone from being taken over by an agent (or at least convince the agent to abandon their attempt to overwrite the human); check the man in "Detective Story".

On a weird side note - the director of "Detective Story" - Shinichiro Watanabe - has stated that he deliberately left the detective's fate ambiguous, similar to Spike's fate at the end of Cowboy Bebop. His death is not assured.

[FSTargetDrone]

Much as I hate to quote this guy...

"You've worked as a policeman your whole life, protecting the innocent, enforcing the law. You retire with honors, then take a job as a security guard, working the metal detector on the ground floor of a skyscraper in order to help pay for your wife's arthritis medication. You're sitting there, on a slow day, reading your newspaper, when a girl walks in wearing a trenchcoat. She issues no demands, no warnings, no "freeze" or "drop your gun." She just tears you in half with a spray of machine-gun fire, then does cartwheels along the walls while killing all your friends.

Somewhere, faintly, you can hear a theater audience cheering."

That site you mention says that:

Aaliyah and Gloria Foster were unceremonially dropped after shooting some scenes for Revolutions. What's wrong, guys? They didn't test well with the predominantly white Matrix audiences?

I believe Gloria Foster was recast because she, um, died before filming of the 3rd movie was complete, and her role was recast with another black actor. The singer, Aaliyah, also died before her filming was complete.

I don't like the movies, but the site is full of whiny bullshit, some of it inaccurate.

[FSTargetDrone]

I don't like the movies, but the site is full of whiny bullshit, some of it inaccurate.

And boo to me for not reading the rest of that site whose claims get progressively more ridiculous and seems to be a spoof.

[Darth Wong]

Claiming ethical justification for killing off innocent people in order to keep them from being taken over by Agents when none of this would be happening at all if not for your incursion is a nice dodge, but it doesn't work. The entire situation is still your responsibility.

This is like gunning down 50 Iraqi civilians for no reason and then saying "Well, we know the insurgents can't torture them now, and we know they can't turn into insurgents".

[KrauserKrauser]

I hadn't read the comics and have no idea where they rank on Matrix canon.

Going by movie evidence alone, teamed with the scenes in the Animatrix that also don't show a person coming back from possession, I'll be obstinant and stand by my theory.

These people aren't smart. They don't take much time to actually think about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Thusly it makes perfect sense to kill off all potential threats when they are on missions for the greater good. Even though their end objective will result in their extinction.

[Molyneux]

I hadn't read the comics and have no idea where they rank on Matrix canon.

Going by movie evidence alone, teamed with the scenes in the Animatrix that also don't show a person coming back from possession, I'll be obstinant and stand by my theory.

These people aren't smart. They don't take much time to actually think about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Thusly it makes perfect sense to kill off all potential threats when they are on missions for the greater good. Even though their end objective will result in their extinction.

The Animatrix DOES show a possession being cancelled midway. That's the climax of "Detective Story".

[KrauserKrauser]

Cancelled midway =/= Completed and reversed without ill effects to the possessed person.

[Molyneux]

Cancelled midway =/= Completed and reversed without ill effects to the possessed person.

Do we have any reason to suspect that the Agents cannot un-possess a person? You're making an unfounded assumption.

[TithonusSyndrome]

After all, they are indoctrinated during their training to treat everyone inside the Matrix as an enemy. How many civilians must've died when Neo went to get Morpheus back, bombed the building and crashed a helicopter into an office block? Lots, probably.

I imagine at least thirty people died when that military gunship crashed into the side of that office building (unless the building was mostly empty and was being renovated) - the Agent's HQ was described as "military controlled" and the elevator bomb explosion that spread throughout the ruined lobby full of dead/incapacitated military troops perhaps did not outright kill any civilians in the building (although the explosion's shock may have injured people in the office floors or pedestrians wanderin the street outside).

It begs one to wonder what kind of relationship the Agents have with the unspecified government depicted in the Matrix films. They get unconditional compliance from pretty much any branch of this government, even though the reputations of these known terrorists likely preceeds them wherever they go, and anyone being assigned to confront them pretty much knows that they're going to be one from among the scores of men to die a la the Stormtrooper Effect. I know the films were shot in Sydney, but as none of the bystanders speak with Australian accents, is it fair to say that it takes place in the United States? Or some alt-world "Country X" that is largely America-like?

[Sephirius]

Just a thought I had, what if the APU's are unarmored to facilitate quick escape of the pilot in dire circumstances? I seem to recall pilots in TSR dying horribly as their arms and legs were still 'armored' in to their apus as the squiddies pulled them out. Also, maybe they figured the ability to actually fight off any tentacles (however small that capability might be) may be worth the unarmoredness, or it just wasn't worth it, as in if they get close enough to slash you up, you're fucked anyway, so you may as well have the better visibility.

[Jim Raynor]

Just a thought I had, what if the APU's are unarmored to facilitate quick escape of the pilot in dire circumstances? I seem to recall pilots in TSR dying horribly as their arms and legs were still 'armored' in to their apus as the squiddies pulled them out.

That doesn't make any sense. It's like saying tanks shouldn't have armor because their crews would have a harder time getting out if there was a fire. A completely exposed pilot would not live to get to the point where he would be worrying about a mechanical tentacle pulling him apart.

Also, maybe they figured the ability to actually fight off any tentacles (however small that capability might be) may be worth the unarmoredness, or it just wasn't worth it, as in if they get close enough to slash you up, you're fucked anyway, so you may as well have the better visibility.

Matrix Revolutions demonstrates just how retarded the lack of armor is. Mifune was killed by physical attacks which failed to significantly damage his APU, which was still usable when the Kid took it over.

[Molyneux]

Just a thought I had, what if the APU's are unarmored to facilitate quick escape of the pilot in dire circumstances? I seem to recall pilots in TSR dying horribly as their arms and legs were still 'armored' in to their apus as the squiddies pulled them out. Also, maybe they figured the ability to actually fight off any tentacles (however small that capability might be) may be worth the unarmoredness, or it just wasn't worth it, as in if they get close enough to slash you up, you're fucked anyway, so you may as well have the better visibility.

That's an interesting idea...perhaps they knew in advance that the squiddies, for whatever reason, weren't planning on using any ranged attacks? Given the facility with which their lasers cut through the Nebuchadnezzar's armor in the first film, it's unlikely that a reasonable amount of armor on an APU could withstand that type of attack for more than a few seconds, so they went for a lighter, more mobile model.

That still wouldn't explain why they can't move and shoot at the same time, or why the squids don't use ANY guns...