First Contact Scenerio Between SG-1 & the Galactic Empir

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-03-18 06:42pm

It's some shapeshifty machine thing actually, but thanks anyway.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-18 06:47pm

I've no work now (bar revision) so I'll have a look in some physiology textbooks and on some online journals if you really want.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-03-18 06:53pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:This "Ancient Archive" is biological I assume. It is a big brain I suspect.

It doesnt have to be biological. The hatak's computers have been shown to be able to contain the 'soul' and knowlage of an Asgard mind when it was 'downloaded' by Ancient technology into the computer's memory banks. There was also the claim by Anubis that he could then extract information out of Thor's mind image with ease.

A neural network doesnt have to be hosted in what we would turn a biological, but the end result would be the same.

I don't know how you'd just read it into the neural net with a big computer given the human brain processes serially at under 100Hz but outdoes all modern computers by sheer parallel processing ability. So doing a Matrix and just scanning it in as you would a hard disk is a tad hard.

The Ancients have the technology to download a biological mind into a hatak's main computer via a small implant.

This happened when Thor had his mind hoovered into a Hatak's computer.

This happened again with Jonus, and then the ability to arbitrarily extract knowlage from another mind was demonstarted when they extracted the location of Jonus's homeworld and the information about Naquadiah.

Unless this particle manipulation can alter the neuron structure (as well as molecular) in which case it could conceivably "rewire" the brain fast enough provided it doesn't fry the cells. As far as I can tell.*

Asgard transporters & holographics senders are the basics of the technology you would need. The ability to artificially create an image (requires the maniuplation of photons) at an distance from the target is the bar bone basics for a particle manipulator.

Since the neuron's are encoded via chemical interactions and not nuclear, the ability to dump energy into something is the basic princible behind something which can rewrite a human brain.

Also Jack's head was stuck in there for a few minutes.

My take on it anyway if only because Mr. NecronLord asked me nicely to check it out.

No problem. Its good to have someone who knows what they are talking about contributing

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-03-18 06:53pm

Please do

Basically what it does is scan the subject, grab them by the head, and do something that appears to be at least partly optical, "I saw lights, coloured lights."

The subject then passes out, and when they revive, start gradually gaining knowledge of ancient outposts and technology.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-18 07:08pm

It is somewhat feasible.

If you have a device able to take a snapshot of every molecule in an object such as a biological neural net (obviously an artificial one is a lot easier to sort I/O problems out) the you could, given the technology, reproduce the structure and thus the memories encoded due to it. This would also replicate any molecular memory such as genes if need be.

Course, there are those like Penrose who see the brain as having a quantum fluctuation factor which lasts longer than 10^-13 seconds and so has an influence on conciousness making any replication nowhere near as exact as the original (I hate to say this, but it sounds like vitalism and the water isn't so clear thanks to Tegmark successfully refuting a hypothesis Penrose never brought up).

We are talking sci-fi here, so reading brains like floppies is commonplace and the likes of the Culture for instance can save a personality due to "Souldkeeper" devices backing up the brain image before possible brain death (irreversible damage to synaptic functions and neural sclerosis, necrosis etc.)

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-18 07:11pm

Blast, my spelling is dying. That's Soulkeeper there.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-03-18 07:14pm

Humm, so no easier way to do it than manipulating each molecule?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-18 07:22pm

From an initial standpoint, that would seem so unless you can still grow the cells with the exact conformation they have in the target so that the host has a brain which, on a cellular level at least, is identical to the target neural net.

I'm looking for a paper I saw a year or two back about rats and eye blink conditioning. They're a far simpler model than human subjects for mapping neural groups that make our memory circuitry.

I'll post what I find if I can find it tonight.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-03-18 08:02pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'm looking for a paper I saw a year or two back about rats and eye blink conditioning. They're a far simpler model than human subjects for mapping neural groups that make our memory circuitry.

The problem is the massive bulk of the information which was rapidly passed to into Jack's brain.

There is also the Ancient technology which somehow allows the transfer of a human neural network to another source(how its interpreted and information extracted is another matter) via an implant. This implant was good enough to cause a transfer similar to how the Asgard copy themselves from body to body.

The Asgard clearly have some type of neuron manipulation technology, since they put Thor back into an organic body after being a crystal.

Another supporting evidence for the remote particle manipulation theory is how Jack was cured.

A random Asgard just touched him on the head. No funky lights or the like. One minute he wasnt fine, the next he was.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-03-18 08:12pm

Kinda beyond current technology, but it must have some special features if it is able to do those tasks without any major problems. Reminds me the Omega-13 device in Galaxy Quest.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-03-18 08:31pm

ggs wrote:
SirNitram wrote:You didn't watch Window Of Opportunity, did you? It's useless.
Useless as a time machine to wind back time for a large volumn of space. Sticking a large area in a type of time loop was the reason it was useless for its intended purpose. But what he proposes to expliot this.

What he proposed is putting Coruscant in a loop. I don't see how this would improve matters for or against them to any noticable degree; SGC and Earth was not 'missing days' by any indication when the loop closed.

Still waiting for the point. What's so snazzy about materials that are old?
Extreme reliability and durability for one.

Reliability I won't challenge. Durability? Well, let's see, an Acclamator's armor isn't dented if you detonate a fusion warhead against it..

So if the Ancient's purposefully toss a Stargate into a star, they can mimic what a purpose-built starfighter-scale vehicle the Empire built can do, only it takes them nearly an hour when the Suncrusher does it in moments.
Eh? It took a matter of minutes for the supernova to trigger when they dumped the stargate into the star.

15 or so, IIRC. And longer than that for the Gate to drift in.

Not to mention you need A) A spare Stargate just laying around and B) A Stargate near the event horizon of a black hole. Not exactly common or easy to get ahold of.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-03-19 06:13am

NecronLord wrote:Hey, antbrain, this isn't "Ancients vs the Empire" this is "What would the Empire do on finding the Ancient tech lying around as of the series."

Interesting question - An unimportant force user, say, Jerec, looks into the Ancient Archive from Lost City Pt 1 or The Fifth Race. Can they handle that knowledge or will they eventually suffer the detrimental effects that O'neill did?

I forgot. However I wasn't who started the versus. I only continued it.

About the Jedi, I would say that such a thing its unlikely. The Jedi don't appear to have enhanced memory habilities and will in time suffer the detrimental effects. However, an adequate mental training and selfdiscipline (and the Jedi are quite good at both things) will probably help to keep the affected mind sane for a longer time.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-03-19 06:16am

Humm...

How about Lobot then?

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-03-19 06:30am

NecronLord wrote:Humm...

How about Lobot then?

The man that talks with an completely alien bioship and manages to keep his identity? A man with a neural conection with the Holonet? For as long as his implants are undamaged, I would say that he would be perfectly able to absorb the information and, after some time, put it in use. That would make Calrrisian a very happy man.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-03-19 07:44am

Murazor wrote: The man that talks with an completely alien bioship and manages to keep his identity? A man with a neural conection with the Holonet? For as long as his implants are undamaged, I would say that he would be perfectly able to absorb the information and, after some time, put it in use. That would make Calrrisian a very happy man.

"Lando Calrisian, CEO of Stargates and Teleporters incorparated."

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-03-19 11:07am

NecronLord wrote:
Murazor wrote: The man that talks with an completely alien bioship and manages to keep his identity? A man with a neural conection with the Holonet? For as long as his implants are undamaged, I would say that he would be perfectly able to absorb the information and, after some time, put it in use. That would make Calrrisian a very happy man.
"Lando Calrisian, CEO of Stargates and Teleporters incorparated."

Any bets on how long it takes him to over take the Empire using Ancient enspired technology?

If nothing else, the medical market gets cornered even more completely than it does with Bacta. Civilan transportation (any were in the galaxy in near constant time!) would be radically revolutionized.

Prison cells would be solid blocks with no opening, and the prisoner is carted in & out via transporter

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2004-03-19 05:09pm

What he proposed is putting Coruscant in a loop. I don't see how this would improve matters for or against them to any noticable degree; SGC and Earth was not 'missing days' by any indication when the loop closed.

IIRC, the tok'ra had been attempting to contact the SGC for months.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » 2004-03-22 02:05pm

SirNitram wrote:
ggs wrote:
SirNitram wrote:You didn't watch Window Of Opportunity, did you? It's useless.
Useless as a time machine to wind back time for a large volumn of space. Sticking a large area in a type of time loop was the reason it was useless for its intended purpose. But what he proposes to expliot this.
What he proposed is putting Coruscant in a loop. I don't see how this would improve matters for or against them to any noticable degree; SGC and Earth was not 'missing days' by any indication when the loop closed.

Actually, as was mentionned, the Tokra had been trying to contact Earth for several months while the looping was going on.

The region of the loop was many lightyears; enough to encompass several (but not many) Stargates.

Makes me wonder if the Asgard slowtime device for the replicators was based on similar technology as the loop device.