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As far as improvements go, first of all I would like my memory improved and my attention problems fixed. After that, the ability to connect my brain to the net from anywhere I can find wireless would be awesome, especially if you can combine that with an augmented reality scheme. This would probably only work in cities, of course, but that's okay, I'd plan to do a lot of traveling and having google maps up at will is going to be useful. As for physical improvements, increasing my reaction speed would likely do a lot of good in the most situations I can think of; trying to improve my physical strength has a lot of problems of the "your arm is stronger than your back" sort, so that's a bit of a non-starter.

This board's population is heavily self-selected for enjoying science fiction (and being relatively frequently exposed to transhumanist concepts), and more generally I imagine for general technophilia.

As you say, this is not going to represent the population as a whole. The kind of people who come to boards like these are:

- More open minded about technological advances
- More likely to understand the implications of technology
- Have had time to think about this in the past

As a technology, transhumanism in its many forms is extremely attractive. You can make up for physical or mental inadequacies with a surgical procedure, and you can become a veritable Ubermench without having to stick to a rigorous training regime. It confers huge benefits with minimal effort on your part. It's fitness in a pill (metaphorically, of course).

Then it adds in power fantasies about being able to lift cars with one arm, being able to think harder, better, faster, making Olympic athletes look like a bunch of untrained cripples, and so on.

I imagine the best way to go about it would probably be to use a utility fog. A good utility fog could probably give you abilities comparable to Odo (Star Trek DS9). It could even approximate his ability to change apparent size drastically if the foglets have extendable arms like in the proposal I linked to; it could vary between being solid and mostly air by volume, and in doing so dramatically change its volume.

Perhaps, but I'd prefer to leave advanced nanotech out of it for now.

I don't really care about improvements beyond fixing what's already wrong with me (my back and my vision). Other than that, give me a downloadable consciousness into new clone bodies ala Cylons and I'll be satisfied. I'm not terribly interested in giving up my fleshy bits.

you do realize I'm a diabetic with shitty vision, a family history of insanity, alcoholism, cancer and other fun stuff, right?

^ So, you're an option 4 guy. Right?

The Yosemite Bear wrote:you do realize I'm a diabetic with shitty vision, a family history of insanity, alcoholism, cancer and other fun stuff, right?

I would think you'd want an internal insulin pump and sugar capturing implant at least.

Not to mention an immune system upgrade and addiction center neutralizer.

But if you went for a full body download you could pick and choose which vices to keep.

Starglider wrote:

I know because like Eleas I have ADD and have experienced this kind of change using medications (which I can no longer take-- but that's another story).

Correction of biological misfunction (relatively minor misfunction at that) is nothing like structural enhancement beyond biological norms.

I know you're not really this stupid, but the statement is idiocy in several ways.

Firstly, in this context, the word "biological misfunction" (despite the academic gravitas it laboriously strives to project) is a subjective value judgement, based on your own anthropomorphism as opposed to meaningful reality. The reason ADD, Aspergers, etc are considered flaws is because these syndromes are clearly noticeable and aggravated today. They also confer benefits.

In other words, we see the syndrome as a flaw because we're told it is one. Less intelligent people are also treated like shit, and many do not receive aid for their problems, unless they're literally child-like. When does differing capacity of a brain become "misfunction"? ...ah yes, don't tell me. At the point when it gets a fancy name and becomes a syndrome.

Setting aside such parochial nonsense, however, the comparison I gave remains valid and unadressed. If you're blind and then given sight, you are going to be operating beyond your previous norms. Whether you were "broken" before but are now "corrected" is irrelevant to the point at hand. The issue is whether we, as individuals, can know what it is like to be radically upgraded. And we can.

Secondly, during your grandiose oratory, you offered the distinction of "biological norms," apparently something you conjured up yourself. Nobody in this thread before yourself stipulated the necessity of reordering the basic structure of the brain, or indeed having the new container work as anything more than a wet-ware simulation. You draw arbitrary lines in the sand to box in concepts and declare them unknowable, when the truth is, we can't know anything perfectly. Our attempts to abstract and model such behaviour - any behaviour - will have to suffice.

Finally, the other point I made was that while we can imagine quite a bit, you stupidly talked about how the difference would "feel", knowing perfectly well that your emotional reactions would be based on that same revamped cognitive structure. It's completely without meaning.



EDIT: Clarified a few statements. While on reflection I shouldn't have thrown out the word "stupid" quite so liberally, it does apply to Starglider's post, so it stands.

A bigger dick and multiple orgasms. I'm not asking for much here.

Destructionator XIII wrote:In short, I'm content with what I have.

Wow, I had you pegged as being in the upload camp, but I guess I was wrong. Your point about the economy makes sense, though. That's why I question that everyone will necessarily want to upload when they already live in post-scarcity luxury.

I'd go with 2, possibly 1 and then 3 in order of preference.

2 would allow me to do things that have bothered me beforehand. Personally, I would leave behind the fleshy body full of flaws and doubtful service life in exchange for one that does not get broken down whenever I ate something I desired but shouldn't have. No more restrained by random genetics!

Of course, 1 appeals to too because then I could do things faster, more efficiently and better than my puny human brain could dream of.

3 also sounds fine but not that much of an overall improvement than 1 or 2.

I mean, at some point, it's not really going to be individual people competing to win out. It's going to be no different from Formula One, with various automobile/posthuman companies advertising their products and with each athlete becoming a blend of both individual sportsman AND precision advertised corporate product!

Some would say that the Olympics are already like that: a race of who has the best genetics coupled with who can hide their drug-enchantments the best.

Turn me into a Terminator for the win.

Consider; I can interact with the world as a human, and with Cyberspace as a virtual/artificial intelligence.

I'd also want some variant bodies to plug into. I.e Mouse-Bot, Cat-Bot, Doggy-Bot, etc. Maybe a Giant wasp too....

Upload. I'd replace my puny meatbag body with a nano cloud without a second thought.

His Divine Shadow wrote:I like the form of "uploading" wherein your neurons are replaced one by one over a long time by artificial counterparts, it appeals to me since it is not a discontinuous process, could take decades to accomplish. Once free of the limitations of organics one can slowly grow and evolve over decades or centuries even in order to take advantage of what such a mind could offer. This method to me nicely sidesteps the "dying and having a copy of you uploaded" fear that many people have, including me, instead it is a gradual change, much like how your body replaces the components that make up itself over it's lifespan.

So I assume my choice it's a variation of #1, possibly a combo of 1 and 2.

I would go with this, at least until the process has reached the point where I'm over the meatsack fear of discontinuity. Though there isn't really any need to have it take years. It can be done over the course of days (assuming that the technology can handle that, of course) while still maintaining continuity of consciousness. And to Starglider, yes, I'm well aware that at many levels the continuity of consciousness thing is an illogical, overly emotional reaction. This is why I want to upload myself out of having to deal with near-on anxiety attacks when I think about the process too deeply.

I'd upload myself so that I can tour the galaxy. I will accumulate memories and sights of truly grandoise things throughout my travels onboard a small automated fleet of relativistic starships. I will stand upon the surface of acidic death-worlds and lush earthlike planets ; I will explore lifeless asteroids and bask in searing brightness of blue giants ; I will watch gamma-ray bursts as they happen ; I will see ecosystems rise and thrive, or shrivel and die out.

And thanks to my new artificial consciousness, I'll be able to perfectly recall each and every one of those experiences, and upon my return to Earth,share them freely with other individuals, so that everyone can marvel at the universe's glory. And, of course, our understanding of the cosmos will enter a period of unprecedented advance once humanity gains the capability to actually watch all those universal wonders we can only study from afar now.

You have pretty lofty goals, all I'd do with my upgraded body is live out in the country, shooting beer cans with my revolver from the porch, mind you the beer cans will be several miles away and I won't need anything but iron sights, and nomatter how much beer I drink I don't get a beer gut. Good times if they ever happen.

The limits of what I'd really want in terms of transhumanism is well within normal human limits, with one exception:

I think it would be awesome to be modified not to need sleep.

Simon_Jester wrote:The limits of what I'd really want in terms of transhumanism is well within normal human limits, with one exception:

I think it would be awesome to be modified not to need sleep.

I think it would drive me nuts. I have a hard enough time finding shit to do while I'm awake, I don't need to be bored for a whole extra 6+ hours.

Some mild combination of enhancement with immortality. I'm short-sighted so the most obvious would be to replace my eyes with ones that worked without external aid. Having immortality though or at least longevity would be more important than anything, where the enhancements are there to make the body more resilient. I'd rather live a long healthy life.

Generally speaking I don't like transhumanism - Simon_jester's comment that he'd like to eliminate sleep is a good example of why - but I like the idea that the quality of life can get better as technology progresses. Maybe that's transhumanism lite? The diet version. Whatever.

I think that my own preference would be to slowly move from my current (significantly) limited form to eventual uploading. Why slowly? Well, many of the things that I enjoy in my day-to-day life are reliant on my limitations as a human.

For example, the adrenalin rush and sense of achievement that I get from learning a new skating trick (or using an old one in someplace new) is totally dependant upon my physical fitness level and emotional response to overcoming my fear of injury. If I was to suddenly become a "perfect" physical specimen, that would change what I would enjoy doing with my body. Let alone what changes to my emotional responses/consciousness would mean for my view of the world.

So, I would likely prefer to move slowly upward through the stages of perfecting my body and then uploading my consciousness, thereby giving myself enough time to enjoy each possible step on the way.

This assumes, of course, that we're talking about scenario #1 here; if not being transhuman is the equivalent of being a crippled vegetable with Parkinsons in a scarcity society, then I would rather just go for uploading and be done.

Stofsk wrote:Generally speaking I don't like transhumanism - Simon_jester's comment that he'd like to eliminate sleep is a good example of why - but I like the idea that the quality of life can get better as technology progresses. Maybe that's transhumanism lite? The diet version. Whatever.

For me, personally, not needing sleep (or just needing a lot less) would be incredibly helpful, because I naturally tend to push myself to stay up too late for my own good. More than anything else, I'd like to be able to do that without the "for my own good" bit, without feeling so damn tired in the morning.

It wouldn't be right for everyone; I'm not suggesting it as a general mod for the human race, but I think on balance it would be good for me.

I think the option to postpone sleep could be very helpful, but I'm with Stofsk in that I wouldn't want to eliminate it. I'd miss my dreams

Stofsk wrote:Generally speaking I don't like transhumanism - Simon_jester's comment that he'd like to eliminate sleep is a good example of why - but I like the idea that the quality of life can get better as technology progresses. Maybe that's transhumanism lite? The diet version. Whatever.

I think that would count as general futurism/humanism.

I would do the Six Million Dollar Man route but thats about it. Other than fine Motor skill enhancement for modeling and gun smithing. Maybe even some thing for my attention span and concentration.

You know, much as I'm leery of transhumanism, in a situation where it's actually available, I'd probably upload. The lure of anything I could possibly imagine combined with godlike powers of imagination (plus secure immortality) are too much. A lot would depend on how the uploading process worked and how the philosophical issues work out.

Simon_Jester wrote:

Stofsk wrote:Generally speaking I don't like transhumanism - Simon_jester's comment that he'd like to eliminate sleep is a good example of why - but I like the idea that the quality of life can get better as technology progresses. Maybe that's transhumanism lite? The diet version. Whatever.

For me, personally, not needing sleep (or just needing a lot less) would be incredibly helpful, because I naturally tend to push myself to stay up too late for my own good. More than anything else, I'd like to be able to do that without the "for my own good" bit, without feeling so damn tired in the morning.

It wouldn't be right for everyone; I'm not suggesting it as a general mod for the human race, but I think on balance it would be good for me.

I'd like that as a component of parallel processing. There's no reason that with the brain properly designed you could do a rolling defragment/neural pruning on some sections while the others are active, with data being pushed around as necessary. That way you could simultaneously dream and reconstitute your personality / memories while simultaneously remaining active and functional. I'd like that, and of course the progressive replacement of all components of my body with robotics and then finally brain uploading. With immortality then in the offing I would prefer to be uploaded into the computer core of an interstellar vessel with a few friends, and spend the next tens of thousands of years travelling between the stars at relativistic velocities, running our own imaginary worlds in our simulations to have fun and bouncing ideas off each other to keep company, with nanite repair mechanisms to refuel and reconstruct segments of the vessel so that it would also be effectively immortal.