Hamel wrote: There is no way she could not have been seen by them in
their elevated cabin.
Height of this is 59.47 pixels to the meter.
Assuming Saint Pankake is 1.75 meters tall (5' 8"); she comes out as 104 pixels tall.
From the following drawing, we see that a D9 operator cannot see Saint Pankake unless she is past 1351 pixels away; or 22.72 meters away, or 74 1/2 feet away, almost a foot-ball field's length!
And this is with a unmodified D9, without the anti sniper uparmor package which severely restricts vision anyway.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
LongVin wrote:You know what I find amazing. The very people she was there to defend would consider her a heretic and harlot and probably have her stoned to death.
Even assuming that this hasty generalization is true, how is it different from a black US soldier who fights to preserve the freedom of expression of a white supremacist group in America?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Sea Skimmer wrote:No houses where demolished the day she was killed, so the crime was what exactly?
The bulldozer was there to demolish the home of a doctor, supposedly because he was a "terrorist" -a clear violation of GC, which prohibits collective punishment and deliberate destruction of houses as retaliation. As this article points out:
The United Nations says that since the Al-Aqsa Intifada began in 2001, 582 Rafah homes have been demolished, another 721 have been damaged, and 5,305 people have been made homeless, more than in the rest of the Gaza Strip combined.
Now since the IDF has been on such a great lark, destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes in Rafah, when these armored bulldozers showed up it must have been obvious to the locals and ISM that they weren't there to put in a swimming pool.
LongVin wrote:You know what I find amazing. The very people she was there to defend would consider her a heretic and harlot and probably have her stoned to death.
Even assuming that this hasty generalization is true, how is it different from a black US soldier who fights to preserve the freedom of expression of a white supremacist group in America?
Because said white supremacist isn't in the majority or even a large minority of the population. As opposed to most Muslim people who actively favor Sharia law and call the west decadent and immoral.
Elfdart wrote:If someone was using a bulldozer to commit a crime (for example, smashing into a jewelry store) and ran over a person who could not or would not get out of the way, that driver is a murderer.
I'm not seeing why the fact she was murdered makes her any less stupid for walking in front of a bulldozer.
By that logic, the guy who stood in front of the tank at Tiananman Square was stupid. So were the black marchers beaten, firehosed and attacked with dogs at Selma. Dumbfucks should have got out of the way. The kids at Kent State must also have been morons.
Elfdart wrote:By that logic, the guy who stood in front of the tank at Tiananman Square was stupid. So were the black marchers beaten, firehosed and attacked with dogs at Selma. Dumbfucks should have got out of the way. The kids at Kent State must also have been morons.
Yes, that's correct; putting yourself in harm's way and refusing to remove yourself for an ideology is not exactly the most intelligent thing you can do. Of course, that's not to say the people who were invidiously responsible for the tragedies shouldn't bear the guilt.
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Elfdart wrote:The bulldozer was there to demolish the home of a doctor, supposedly because he was a "terrorist" -a clear violation of GC, which prohibits collective punishment and deliberate destruction of houses as retaliation. As this article points out:
Actually, no. According to Amir Segev-Sayag, a media officer for the Israeli consulate in San Francisco, the bulldozer was in Rafah "as part of an effort to prevent terror-related activities." He also said that the bulldozer was attempting to remove shrubbery to expose these tunnels, not to raze a Palestinian house.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
LongVin wrote:You know what I find amazing. The very people she was there to defend would consider her a heretic and harlot and probably have her stoned to death.
You are one dumb twat. Hamas only had success at the ballot box three years after she was killed. Even then, it owed more to the corruption of Fatah and the fact that Palestinians were sick of living under a quisling regime. Palestinians are among the most secular Arabs in the world. In the article I linked to above, it mentions how Corrie and the other ISM people (male and female) were welcomed by the Palestinians (though treated with suspicion at first), played soccer with local boys and so on. No mention of burkas in any of that.
Elfdart wrote:
The bulldozer was there to demolish the home of a doctor, supposedly because he was a "terrorist" -a clear violation of GC, which prohibits collective punishment and deliberate destruction of houses as retaliation. As this article points out:
No, that’s what ISM says they thought might be occurring. The Israelis say there where plowing up the earth to look for buried bombs (which blew up several Israeli tanks in Gaza) and that no houses where destroyed on that day. ISM has not claimed as far as I can tell that the house was actually destroyed, so I leave it to you to prove that houses where being destroyed at the time.
Now since the IDF has been on such a great lark, destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes in Rafah, when these armored bulldozers showed up it must have been obvious to the locals and ISM that they weren't there to put in a swimming pool.
The bulldozers do a whole lot more then just destroying houses, there mere presence is proof of nothing. The eyewitness accounts from ISM say that the bulldozer was pushing earth at the time. Why would it be pushing earth if it was flattening houses? Bulldozers move a whole lot faster with the blade raised you know. Plowing up earth does however jive with the Israeli claim that a search for bombs and a general clearing of debris to make observation easier was being conducted. So once more, prove it. I’ve yet to see a single picture of this destroyed house, and yet pictures of Rachel just after she was hit abound on the internet. So where’s the picture of the destroyed house? You’d think they’d want to document that to show just what she died for!
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LongVin wrote:You know what I find amazing. The very people she was there to defend would consider her a heretic and harlot and probably have her stoned to death.
You are one dumb twat. Hamas only had success at the ballot box three years after she was killed. Even then, it owed more to the corruption of Fatah and the fact that Palestinians were sick of living under a quisling regime. Palestinians are among the most secular Arabs in the world. In the article I linked to above, it mentions how Corrie and the other ISM people (male and female) were welcomed by the Palestinians (though treated with suspicion at first), played soccer with local boys and so on. No mention of burkas in any of that.
Yeah and I'm sure none of those people who "welcomed" her supported the killing of Israelis. These are also the same people who danced in the streets after 9/11.
MKSheppard wrote:Actually, no. According to Amir Segev-Sayag, a media officer for the Israeli consulate in San Francisco, the bulldozer was in Rafah "as part of an effort to prevent terror-related activities." He also said that the bulldozer was attempting to remove shrubbery to expose these tunnels, not to raze a Palestinian house.
According to the Israeli government, the massacre at Deir Yassin never happened and the attack on the USS Liberty was a "mistake". Of course only fan-whores for Israel would believe such bullshit.
Elfdart wrote:According to the Israeli government, the massacre at Deir Yassin never happened and the attack on the USS Liberty was a "mistake". Of course only fan-whores for Israel would believe such bullshit.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Elfdart wrote:By that logic, the guy who stood in front of the tank at Tiananman Square was stupid. So were the black marchers beaten, firehosed and attacked with dogs at Selma. Dumbfucks should have got out of the way. The kids at Kent State must also have been morons.
Yes, that's correct; putting yourself in harm's way and refusing to remove yourself for an ideology is not exactly the most intelligent thing you can do. Of course, that's not to say the people who were invidiously responsible for the tragedies shouldn't bear the guilt.
I wouldn't say Tianamen Square was stupid at all. While dangerous for the guy, it's probably one of them most opowerful Anti-ChiCom images ever and probably was more inspirational against the regime than anythign else he could have done with the past years.
Elfdart wrote:According to the Israeli government, the massacre at Deir Yassin never happened and the attack on the USS Liberty was a "mistake". Of course only fan-whores for Israel would believe such bullshit.
<Israeli Apologist Bullshit>
I suggest you read it.
Case in point.
MRDOD wrote:I wouldn't say Tianamen Square was stupid at all. While dangerous for the guy, it's probably one of them most opowerful Anti-ChiCom images ever and probably was more inspirational against the regime than anythign else he could have done with the past years.
No, he was a dumbass. Anyone who would risk his or her life for the life or liberty of another is stupid, according to the dickheads in this thread.
Elfdart wrote:If someone was using a bulldozer to commit a crime (for example, smashing into a jewelry store) and ran over a person who could not or would not get out of the way, that driver is a murderer. If you hit someone with your getaway car, pistolwhip the cashier too hard or he splits his head on the concrete floor, give an old biddie a heart attack when you point the shotgun in her face or in any other way cause the death of a person when you are committing a crime, you are a murderer.
Any attempts to smear and insult the victim ("Hey, the old man should have got out of the way when I made my getaway!") are the work of scumbags.
So closing down Palestinian arms smuggling tunnels is a "crime" now? What weird and distorted universe do you live in?
Elfdart wrote:If someone was using a bulldozer to commit a crime (for example, smashing into a jewelry store) and ran over a person who could not or would not get out of the way, that driver is a murderer.
I'm not seeing why the fact she was murdered makes her any less stupid for walking in front of a bulldozer.
By that logic, the guy who stood in front of the tank at Tiananman Square was stupid. So were the black marchers beaten, firehosed and attacked with dogs at Selma. Dumbfucks should have got out of the way. The kids at Kent State must also have been morons.
No, the guy at Tianmen square was not stupid because he knew the tank driver could see him and so it would be a deliberate choice to run him over. The driver of the bulldozer could not see Rachel Corrie, hence her reincarnation as St. Pancake.
fgalkin wrote:No, the guy at Tianmen square was not stupid because he knew the tank driver could see him and so it would be a deliberate choice to run him over. The driver of the bulldozer could not see Rachel Corrie, hence her reincarnation as St. Pancake.
He was thrown in jail and most likely executed, which means he's a dumbass. He did things on purpose that placed him directly in front of a firing squad. I guess we can call him St. Swiss Cheese, according to your cretinism.
fgalkin wrote:So closing down Palestinian arms smuggling tunnels is a "crime" now? What weird and distorted universe do you live in?
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
First of all fucktard, Israeli soldiers have no business in Gaza or the West Bank to begin with. Second, according to every reputable human rights organization (including the Israeli group B'Tselem) the demolitions have little or nothing to do with military necessity, but are part of a campaign of reprisals against Palestinians in general. Third, this kind of retaliation violates the Geneva Conventions. Fourth, maybe you, Yellow Rain Man and the Trolling Cunt should find one more perverted scumbag who also plays with his dick at the thought of murdered blondes and the four of you can go on an IDF-escorted pilgrimage to Gaza, do circle jerks and leave love puddles at the site where she was killed. In the mean time, go fuck yourself.
MKSheppard wrote:Detailed debunking of the USS Liberty Incident Mythology
I suggest you read it.
I've just read it. However, I've also read some studies based on Visual Analysis that came out since he even wrote. I can also note that our apologist can't even decide whether the 1st Israeli strike had rockets on or just AAMs.
Elfdart wrote:It's a relevant point. What crime did Rachel Corrie commit?
The ISM is barred from entering the Palestinian territories by Israeli law. She was committing a crime by her mere presence. She would also have had to lie to police and border guards to cross the border, another crime. She would have racked up quite a spree before ever getting in front of that bulldozer.
Hamel wrote: There is no way she could not have been seen by them in
their elevated cabin.
Height of this is 59.47 pixels to the meter.
Assuming Saint Pankake is 1.75 meters tall (5' 8"); she comes out as 104 pixels tall.
From the following drawing, we see that a D9 operator cannot see Saint Pankake unless she is past 1351 pixels away; or 22.72 meters away, or 74 1/2 feet away, almost a foot-ball field's length!
And this is with a unmodified D9, without the anti sniper uparmor package which severely restricts vision anyway.
While Mark's info above sheds the beginnings of light on the situation I'd like to add a little...since I'm actually fucking liscense to drive one of these things. Rather I should say the uparmored D7 (some reports seem to say D7 others D9 so I don't know) which I have ridden in. The driver's forward vision is through a single pane of bullet proof glass that measures about 18" wide and 6-10" high. That's it. The field of vision is EXTREMELY narrow and often times as an operator I've missed people who were standing no more than a foot away from the centerline of the vehicle.
Now none of this says anything about whether another vehicle could have been in radio contact with the operator and warned him off but I can say from personal experience that the operator himself carried a HUGE likelyhood of being unable to see a woman kneeling in front of the blad and given the size of the vehicle likely would never have even noticed he hit her.
Its tragic but its hard to hold the operator at fault unless you want to claim he is operating in a strict liability situation but that still doesn't get him for murder.
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I don't want to step too far into this mess since I only vaguely recall her death and such but couldn't there have been soldiers walking beside or riding on the thing to make sure things like this didn't happen? Maybe riding alongside in a hummer or something to act as an escort and eyes and ears since it is a recognized weakness in these bulldozers that you can't see well and there are people who will intentionally try to get in the way.
According to the account of what happened they were protesting for a couple of days when this happened so the Israelis were well aware people were routinely standing in front of these bulldozers at the time.
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As I said earlier, if this happened in, say, a city in New Mexico where residents were protesting a plan to build a new prison, there would be charges laid. Not necessarily murder charges, but the jury would be quite easily convinced that the driver, knowing that there were crowds of people around, should have waited until police could clear them and he'd be assured of safety before putting his foot in the gas.
Barrelling forward when you know you can't see shit and people are probably in your way would get your ass sued six ways from Sunday for criminal negligence causing death, and possibly charged criminally with vehicular homicide.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Elfdart wrote:It's a relevant point. What crime did Rachel Corrie commit?
The ISM is barred from entering the Palestinian territories by Israeli law. She was committing a crime by her mere presence. She would also have had to lie to police and border guards to cross the border, another crime. She would have racked up quite a spree before ever getting in front of that bulldozer.
Just to point out.
I see the Fourth Fapper has arrived.
One, Israeli law means dick in Palestine. The people who live there had no problem ISM being there (other than suspicion at first that they might be Israeli spies). Of course the West Bank and Gaza (until recently, though the IDF still tries to restrict entry and exit) are occupied in the name of Zionist Lebensraum, but there's nothing legal about any Israeli action there.
The only "crime" Rachel Corrie committed was to think of Palestinians as human beings with human rights, which is unforgivable and worthy of death, according to moral lepers like you.
I should think you would want more ISM people to go to the West Bank and Gaza, as well as other do-gooders travelling to the Middle East. Some of them might get killed and among the dead might be a few more blond women for you to beat off to like you've done with Marla Ruzicka and Rachel Corrie.
