When did Wolverine become so wanky?

[KrauserKrauser]

The most recent regenerate from nothing I can remember is the bare adamantium skeleton that was left over after Nitro burned everything off. He appearantly regrew from the small amount of cells that were left over and was somehow concious of this happening before presumably his brain had fully regenerated.

[lance]

Am I the only one waiting for Magneto to fuse Wolverines skeleton together to make him a very morbid statue? I'm sure the writers will reverse it a couple issues later, but until then we can have funny scenes with Wolverine being left in the sun too long, and blink once for yes and two for no.

[Setzer]

I hate that. A superpower should be a superpower, not an ass you can pull plot devices out of whenever convenient.

[Kon_El]

The most recent regenerate from nothing I can remember is the bare adamantium skeleton that was left over after Nitro burned everything off. He appearantly regrew from the small amount of cells that were left over and was somehow concious of this happening before presumably his brain had fully regenerated.

He even healed so fast he was able to run after and catch Nitro.

[Tsyroc]

Actually, I sort of liked what they did with Wolverine at that point. His healing factor was constantly fighting off the adverse effects of the foreign adamantium in his body in order to keep him alive. Without it his healing factor was at full strength. It is one of the few times I thought Wolverine was handled intelligently.

I kind of liked that too except for the lame assed bone claws but technically those came earlier. I wasn't crazy with how the post adamantium Wolverine looked, all bestial and such, but I had liked the idea that there was a cost to him living with the adamantium and that it wasn't something that could just be done to anyone and have them survive.

I think now he's supposedly got some special modified version of adamantium that doesn't interfere with his body's ability to make red blood cells so it doesn't put the drain on healing factor like it used to. All to free up some more of that super regen Wolver-wank.

[avatarxprime]

Actually, I sort of liked what they did with Wolverine at that point. His healing factor was constantly fighting off the adverse effects of the foreign adamantium in his body in order to keep him alive. Without it his healing factor was at full strength. It is one of the few times I thought Wolverine was handled intelligently.

I kind of liked that too except for the lame assed bone claws but technically those came earlier. I wasn't crazy with how the post adamantium Wolverine looked, all bestial and such, but I had liked the idea that there was a cost to him living with the adamantium and that it wasn't something that could just be done to anyone and have them survive.

Well that was all supposed to show his connection with Sabertooth. Sabertooth's healing factor wasn't attenuated by having adamantium and that's why he was all big and beastly. When Wolverine lost his adamantium and his healing factor kicked back in he had no control over it and rapidly beastified, increasing his physical powers but at the expense of his "humanity".

I think now he's supposedly got some special modified version of adamantium that doesn't interfere with his body's ability to make red blood cells so it doesn't put the drain on healing factor like it used to. All to free up some more of that super regen Wolver-wank.

Hmm, when did that happen? I thought Apocalypse just gave him bog standard adamantium. I was under the impression that the difference now is that Wolverine has conscious control of his healing factor from that time Tyler tried to put Cyber's adamantium in Wolverine. Also, apparently Wolverine can't die because whenever he does he has to have a fight with some guy for his soul. Wolverine always wins so he is denied the ability to pass on. After that all he has to do is wait for his body to regenerate. So even if you genuinely kill him, Wolverine still won't die unless he loses that spirit fight.

[Steve]

I remember that comic, ugggh. It reeked of being some quick explaination for how Logan can survive some of the shit he has.

[Darth Yoshi]

Hmm, when did that happen? I thought Apocalypse just gave him bog standard adamantium. I was under the impression that the difference now is that Wolverine has conscious control of his healing factor from that time Tyler tried to put Cyber's adamantium in Wolverine. Also, apparently Wolverine can't die because whenever he does he has to have a fight with some guy for his soul. Wolverine always wins so he is denied the ability to pass on. After that all he has to do is wait for his body to regenerate. So even if you genuinely kill him, Wolverine still won't die unless he loses that spirit fight.

That's just bad. I've read poorly written fanfiction that's better thought-out than this.

[Superman]

I suppose a tad bit of wankiness is sometimes acceptable, but what I want to know is why Asserine's writers throw him up against opponents like the Hulk and have them appear to be roughly in the same ballpark. How strong exactly is Wolverine? Those metal or bone toothpicks that come out of his hands aren't going to help much up against an opponent who rages into Superman levels of power. A raged Hulk wouldn't exactly be great about showing much restraint either... and they've fought how many times now? Throwing the Hulk up against Thor or Juggernaut makes sense, but Wolverine? Shouldn't that be about a 5 second fight?

[Havok]

I suppose a tad bit of wankiness is sometimes acceptable, but what I want to know is why Asserine's writers throw him up against opponents like the Hulk and have them appear to be roughly in the same ballpark.

You can't blame any new writers for that. That was how Wolverine was introduced and established him in the power range. If anything, you should blame the writers that depowered him to make him fit into the X-Men.

[Superman]

You can't blame any new writers for that. That was how Wolverine was introduced and established him in the power range.

I know Wanky's got claws and a healing factor (lol "factor"), but how strong exactly is he? Is he at Spiderman level strength? I guess Wolverine is basically immune to death (his "factor" even allows him to eat pieces of himself to stay alive... which makes him a perpetual motion mutant), but how are his attacks even putting more than a shaving knick into Hulk's big green nutsack?

Also wanted to ask, has Wolvie ever battled Thor?

[Anguirus]

^ AFAIK he's human-strong. Spider-man effortlessly slapped him around during the Secret War.

It's just his indestructibility and super-durable, super-sharp (apparently) claws. I also seem to recall he can't always summon the muscle strength to get the claws through things.

I don't think he's ever held his own against Juggernaut. Even movie-Wolverine was utterly trounced by movie-Jug, for what that's worth.

[Superman]

snip

I see. So if Spiderman is effortlessly slapping him around, but the Hulk or Punisher go into multi page battles against him... Wait, nevermind, I was almost expecting consistency from a comic franchise.

And not that the old DC vs. Marvel crossovers mean jack shit, but imagine the sheer silliness of that Wolverine/Lobo fight ending with Hulk comforting Lobo and saying, "it's okay, I've been there too." I just wish the writers would treat him more like a pesky mosquito that has to be occasionally be slapped away.

[SCRawl]

I suppose a tad bit of wankiness is sometimes acceptable, but what I want to know is why Asserine's writers throw him up against opponents like the Hulk and have them appear to be roughly in the same ballpark.

You can't blame any new writers for that. That was how Wolverine was introduced and established him in the power range. If anything, you should blame the writers that depowered him to make him fit into the X-Men.

If you're referring to Wolverine's first appearance (against the Hulk), he was never really in that fight. He was able to keep himself from getting killed, but he didn't pose a serious threat. Even during subsequent fights against the Hulk that I've read, Wolverine was never much more than an irritant. During the recent WWH arc, for instance, Hulk's solution to (temporarily) containing Wolverine was simply to bash his head hard and often enough to give him a heck of a concussion. Works for me!

I remember reading something a while back, though, about how if a certain writer had maintained control of Wolverine, he probably would have made him around Spider-Man's strength level (rather than where he settled, at the high end of human normal).

The thing about the Wolverine wank that gets me is how it infected other characters, too; quite a few heavy hitter types suddenly developed, along with their usual suite of powers, a "healing factor". It happened to Hulk, who formerly relied primarily on being (a) stupidly strong, effectively as strong as the plot required, and (b) difficult to damage in the first place. After a few years of Wolverine wank, Hulk suddenly became great at healing, too, to the point that he seemed to heal between frames of the comic book.

[KrauserKrauser]

Don't forget Angel. IIRC he was just man+wings and the whole lol healing messiah thing is a relatively new development because he was turning into the Aquaman of the X-Men.

[General Zod]

Even Iron Man can regenerate nowadays. (Ultimate version anyway). Fucking Orson Scott Card.

[Superman]

I remember the Wolverine fanboys in the 90's I would get into it with always loved to bring up his "healing factor," and even then I thought that was a unusually lame name for a power. The whole "factor" part. What is he, a damn math problem? (yes, I know what it actually means, no need for an explanation) "Douche Factor" somehow seems more fitting.

[Tsyroc]

I think now he's supposedly got some special modified version of adamantium that doesn't interfere with his body's ability to make red blood cells so it doesn't put the drain on healing factor like it used to. All to free up some more of that super regen Wolver-wank.

Hmm, when did that happen? I thought Apocalypse just gave him bog standard adamantium. I was under the impression that the difference now is that Wolverine has conscious control of his healing factor from that time Tyler tried to put Cyber's adamantium in Wolverine. Also, apparently Wolverine can't die because whenever he does he has to have a fight with some guy for his soul. Wolverine always wins so he is denied the ability to pass on. After that all he has to do is wait for his body to regenerate. So even if you genuinely kill him, Wolverine still won't die unless he loses that spirit fight.

I thought it was supposed to be a return to status quo too but I read in the new hard bound version of The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z vol. 1 in the entry for adamantium that supposedly Wolverine's healing factor reacted with the base adamantium and turned it into adamantium beta which didn't interfere with the normal processes of bone.

A couple of problems with how it the article is written.

It implies that Wolverine was always like this when he had adamantium and that the same or similar things happened when Sabretooth and Cyber had adamantium bonded to them.

Clearly this is not the case because there is a fair amount of evidence backing up the fact that Wolverine needed his super healing ability to live with that much metal coating his bones. The first being when he had his powers neutralized in Geonosha. He was having a real bad time of it when he and Rogue were on the run without their powers. The second was when Wolverine and the Beast were put in a secret government prison where super powers were nulified by some energy field. Wolverine received regular injections to keep him from getting "adamantium poisoning". Which is not what his problem is/was but I'm sure some writer thought it would sound cool to the 13 year olds and it kept the word amount down. The third example is because of how his body and healing factor reacted after the adamantium was yanked out of his body. The whole deal with that storyline was that he has more power but the adamantium puts a strain on it. A semi well thoughtout idea that seems more ridiculous the older they've made Wolverine. I mean, his appearance stayed pretty consistent for about a hundred years and now he's going to go all Sabretooth?

Some of the problems with Wolverine's adamantium history are clearly the result of limited space for the entry causing the article to more brief and less accurate than it should be. They should have just left that whole beta crap for the Logan/Wolverine entry and left it at that.

[Tsyroc]

You can't blame any new writers for that. That was how Wolverine was introduced and established him in the power range.

I know Wanky's got claws and a healing factor (lol "factor"), but how strong exactly is he? Is he at Spiderman level strength? I guess Wolverine is basically immune to death (his "factor" even allows him to eat pieces of himself to stay alive... which makes him a perpetual motion mutant), but how are his attacks even putting more than a shaving knick into Hulk's big green nutsack?

Also wanted to ask, has Wolvie ever battled Thor?

The original intention was to have Wolverine about as strong as Spiderman.

When he ended up in the X-Men he appeared to be high end human to maybe slightly superhuman. IMO, given his size he's always been proportionately super human but since he's so sort he's not typically outside the "peak human" strength levels. That's pretty much where he was at during his early X-Men years and the Frank Miller limited series.

At some point, I'm thinking when they split the X-Men into Blue and Gold teams and started publishing the X-Men alongside the original the Uncanny X-Men his strength got re-designated as super human. The first two OHOtMU had Wolverine's strength at being able to lift around 500 pounds, which is in the peak human scale. By the third version he was bumped into the lowest super human scale which IIRC put him at 1,000-2,000 pound range.

As we all now, pretty much all comic book super heros/villains go through their power creep moments. It's the ones who don't change, or don't stay changed for long, who are the odd balls.

[Tsyroc]

Don't forget Angel. IIRC he was just man+wings and the whole lol healing messiah thing is a relatively new development because he was turning into the Aquaman of the X-Men.

If you've read the recent X-Force it's even worse than that.

Anyone who has read comics for a while sees the inherent problems with a character's sole power being flying. It's more obvious if that character flies by big assed wings. I mean, if hunters can shoot down fast moving small assed birds at close range, or really really fast airplanes at distance then a 6 foot flying dude with a 16 foot wingspan shouldn't be too hard to hit.

So those winged characters have been taking more hits and/or getting compensatory powers. Angel getting changed into Archangel and a bit of a bad ass was part of that, but more recently he was back to being Angel but they gave him super healing powers. Over in DC, Hawkman and Hawkgirl got some power help from Nth metal that originally just allowed them to fly (strength, healing, some protection, and a more just waiting to be seen).

Anyway, I mention this because in X-Force it turns out that Angel never really grew back his original wings. Those big white feathery things are actually made of super small bits of Celestial tech that is almost impossible to tell from the real thing. Some whack jobs cut those wings off of Angel and did some blah blah blah story crap which set Angel off causing him to mutate back into Archangel, blue skin, metal wings and even the costume. Transforming him from a big flying bird into a multi-mach flying blue guy with super hard metal wings. At the end of the story he reverted back to plain old Angel. So going by that they can have pretty boy Angel and still whip out the Angel of Death if they want to do so.

I like the idea of a vulnerable feather winged Angel when not everyone with super powers has to be a super hero bad ass on a super team. If everyone has to be a combat monster on a super team then they might as well stay with the tortured crybaby blue skinned, metal winged killing machine.

[avatarxprime]

Don't forget Angel. IIRC he was just man+wings and the whole lol healing messiah thing is a relatively new development because he was turning into the Aquaman of the X-Men.

If you've read the recent X-Force it's even worse than that. *snip*

Wait, what now? So the regrown wings are actually Celestial tech? When did he even get that put into his body? I thought he was supposed to be a "real" angel, just like Nightcrawler was supposed to be a "real" demon. I think it would have been better to go with that and give Angel his psychic "I turn you into a pacifist" powers instead of this.

[Meest]

I didn't mind the way he was handled in X-Men 4-7, vol 2 with the Omega Red origin. He falls 10 stories and is so badly hurt Maverick has to inject a crapload of adrenaline to get this healing factor going. Don't remember how long he was out but it was at least half a day to a couple of days and still isn't 100% when he has to fight afterwards. Seemed to be all downhill from there.

[Tsyroc]

Wait, what now? So the regrown wings are actually Celestial tech? When did he even get that put into his body? I thought he was supposed to be a "real" angel, just like Nightcrawler was supposed to be a "real" demon. I think it would have been better to go with that and give Angel his psychic "I turn you into a pacifist" powers instead of this.

The Celestial stuff is supposedly how Apocalypse became so powerful and it's what he uses he supes people up into his horsemen. So Angel has had that stuff in him ever since he was turned into Death.

I think Angel is still supposed to be one of the "real" angels but according to the new X-Force book he's got a lot of that Apocalypse crap hidden inside him too. Incidentally, the people who took Angel's wings this time are the same ones who took Icarus' wings and killed him.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think it would be very amusing if the Hulk just stepped on Wolverine, utterly flattening all of his squishy bits, but his adamantium bones are intact. Then when he recovers with his "healing factor", he regenerates into this... shapeless mess of meat, with miscellaneous pieces of adamantium bones sticking out of odd corners. Like a meatwad of scar tissue and stuff. Like a tumbleweed made out of miscellaneous flesh, metal-coated bone, and organs. Then he'd have to undulate.

[avatarxprime]

Wait, what now? So the regrown wings are actually Celestial tech? When did he even get that put into his body? I thought he was supposed to be a "real" angel, just like Nightcrawler was supposed to be a "real" demon. I think it would have been better to go with that and give Angel his psychic "I turn you into a pacifist" powers instead of this.

The Celestial stuff is supposedly how Apocalypse became so powerful and it's what he uses he supes people up into his horsemen. So Angel has had that stuff in him ever since he was turned into Death.

I think Angel is still supposed to be one of the "real" angels but according to the new X-Force book he's got a lot of that Apocalypse crap hidden inside him too. Incidentally, the people who took Angel's wings this time are the same ones who took Icarus' wings and killed him.

Never was a fan of that revelation about Apoc or the one where his body can't handle his powers for some reason and is burning out. I don't see why Marvel sees the need to nerf him as much as they do.

I think it would be very amusing if the Hulk just stepped on Wolverine, utterly flattening all of his squishy bits, but his adamantium bones are intact. Then when he recovers with his "healing factor", he regenerates into this... shapeless mess of meat, with miscellaneous pieces of adamantium bones sticking out of odd corners. Like a meatwad of scar tissue and stuff. Like a tumbleweed made out of miscellaneous flesh, metal-coated bone, and organs. Then he'd have to undulate.

Considering that during Weapon X he was reduced to a quivering mass of flesh from being opened up on by semi-automatic weapons and then recovered, I doubt that would happen.