The Two Plot Flaws in TWOK: Chekhov and Ceti Alpha V.

[Darth_Vagrant]

I'm normally not into the EU novels, but a friend loaned me a book awhile back that dealt with Khan's exile in between Space Seed and WoK, in which Chekov is part of the security detail that escorts Khan and his cronies to their new home. A reasonable explanation. The book actually wasn't bad... for a Trek novel. I think it was called "To Rule in Hell".

As for Ceti Alpha VI exploding, perhaps its core was really unstable. I'm not that up to speed on planetary science, but that's the best theory I can come up with. Who knows, maybe one of those Q guys blew it up. In science fiction, anything's possible!

[Stark]

Necro AND bad science, a twofer!

[Uraniun235]

Necro AND bad science, a twofer!

To be fair, we have topics dating back to October on the first page of the PST forum; a far cry from the busier forums around here, let alone elsewhere on the web. It'd be easy for someone to stumble in and trip up on that if they're used to other places where a thread from yesterday might be on page 3.

Vagrant, if you want to avoid this sort of thing in the future, you might consider setting your options so that you only see topics dating back two weeks.

[Stark]

Vagrant, if you want to avoid this sort of thing in the future, you might consider setting your options so that you only see topics dating back two weeks.

You can DO that?

[Stofsk]

Vagrant, if you want to avoid this sort of thing in the future, you might consider setting your options so that you only see topics dating back two weeks.

You can DO that?

Holy shit, so that's what that little thing at the bottom was for! The thing that says 'Display posts/topics etc'.

[Patrick Degan]

As for Ceti Alpha VI exploding, perhaps its core was really unstable. I'm not that up to speed on planetary science, but that's the best theory I can come up with.

Unfortunately for that theory, there is the fact that planets aren't bombs waiting to be touched off at the slightest instability.

In science fiction, anything's possible!

No, that's the case only for really bad science fiction.

[Stark]

Holy shit, so that's what that little thing at the bottom was for! The thing that says 'Display posts/topics etc'.

What thing at the bottom where? WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME?

[Uraniun235]

[Darth Wong]

As for Ceti Alpha VI exploding, perhaps its core was really unstable. I'm not that up to speed on planetary science, but that's the best theory I can come up with.

The word "unstable" does not explain where this enormous amount of energy came from. Our planet's innards are highly unstable, but that doesn't mean the planet is going to blow up. There just isn't the potential energy available to do that.

Who knows, maybe one of those Q guys blew it up. In science fiction, anything's possible!

Anything is technically possible but when it's well-written, there should be some kind of comprehensible reason why things happen. Even if you have to invent a fictional mechanism which exists outside real science, there should at least be rules, consistency, rationality. Far too many things happen in Trek just because the writers figured it would be convenient for their plot and didn't spare even one second to think about why it would happen.

[Darth Judas]

The first one can be explained away, but the second... How is is possible to miss the fact that a star system known to have at least six planets seems to be missing one of them?

And what the fuck makes a planet spontaneously explode?

One hint... The natives of Ceti Alpha VI called it "Alderaan."

[Darth Judas]

On a more serious note, the whole "I never forget a face" bit was just stupid. They were going in the right track with Chekov being on the Reliant, since he wouldn't (or should I say, "shouldn't") have known about Kahn and Ceti Alpha V. Especially if Kirk did, indeed, keep the whole thing hush-hush. After sticking the Ceti Eel in Chekov's ear, and asking a few select questions, it wouldn't be difficult to learn the Chekov had served under Kirk, which would still have set up Chekov's seeming betrayal. Beyond that, the rest of the movie would've progressed exactly as we saw it.

[Darth Wong]

On a more serious note, the whole "I never remember a face" bit was just stupid. They were going in the right track with Chekov being on the Reliant, since he wouldn't (or should I say, "shouldn't") have known about Kahn and Ceti Alpha V. Especially if Kirk did, indeed, keep the whole thing hush-hush. After sticking the Ceti Eel in Chekov's ear, and asking a few select questions, it wouldn't be difficult to learn the Chekov had served under Kirk, which would still have set up Chekov's seeming betrayal. Beyond that, the rest of the movie would've progressed exactly as we saw it.

Besides, nobody's perfect. Even today, we have people who are more than twice as smart as regular people, and they're still not perfect. It would have been hilarious if Khan had fucked that up.

KHAN: "And you ... I never forget a face. Mister ... Ramirez."

CHEKOV: "Um, no. My name is Chekov."

KHAN: "No, no, I never forget a face. Ramirez!"

TYRELL: "No, his name is Chekov."

KHAN: "Silence! I told you I never forget a face! His name is Ramirez!" *motions to aide* "Give them the worms!"

TYRELL and CHEKOV: "No, no ... aaaaaahhhhhh!!!!"

KHAN: "There. That's better. Now say it. Your name is Ramirez."

[Darth_Vagrant]

I'm a history major, dammit, not a scientist! Just throwing in my 1 1/2 cents.

Edited to add: Also, it's not like I replied to a topic 5 or 6 pages in.

[CDiehl]

Who knows, maybe one of those Q guys blew it up.

In other words, A Wizard Did It.

In science fiction, anything's possible!

So you think, because it's science fiction, a planet can blow up suddenly, its debris can switch places with a neighboring, intact planet, and no astronomer anywhere notices this miracle taking place.

Ah, another no-science guy. You calculate the amount of energy needed for a feat by comparing before and after energy states, not by going on gut impressions.

Yes, and on what basis am I to calculate something? I have no idea how much energy it takes to perform a standard transport from orbit to a planet's surface, or how the energy requirements change with distance. I do know that a gateway has to convert matter to energy, send a coherent signal to a location in another solar system, possible dozens or hundreds of light-years away, then convert the energy back to matter, all on its own. Also, the gateway has to be able to continue functioning for hundreds or thousands of years without maintenance and still be able to do its job properly. At what point does this sound like it takes a small amount of power to accomplish?

[Stark]

Good boys don't quote pictures.

Ah HA! I don't use that format, and ... er... 'the white one' doesn't seem to have that item (certainly not in the same place). I'm NOT going mad after all!

[Darth Judas]

On a more serious note, the whole "I never remember a face" bit was just stupid. They were going in the right track with Chekov being on the Reliant, since he wouldn't (or should I say, "shouldn't") have known about Kahn and Ceti Alpha V. Especially if Kirk did, indeed, keep the whole thing hush-hush. After sticking the Ceti Eel in Chekov's ear, and asking a few select questions, it wouldn't be difficult to learn the Chekov had served under Kirk, which would still have set up Chekov's seeming betrayal. Beyond that, the rest of the movie would've progressed exactly as we saw it.

Besides, nobody's perfect.

Indeed. I just realized that I wrote, "I never remember a face," instead of "forget."

[Cao Cao]

Good boys don't quote pictures.

Ah HA! I don't use that format, and ... er... 'the white one' doesn't seem to have that item (certainly not in the same place). I'm NOT going mad after all!

What. This white one?

[Darth Servo]

Ah, another no-science guy. You calculate the amount of energy needed for a feat by comparing before and after energy states, not by going on gut impressions.

Yes, and on what basis am I to calculate something? I have no idea how much energy it takes to perform a standard transport from orbit to a planet's surface, or how the energy requirements change with distance. I do know that a gateway has to convert matter to energy, send a coherent signal to a location in another solar system, possible dozens or hundreds of light-years away, then convert the energy back to matter, all on its own. Also, the gateway has to be able to continue functioning for hundreds or thousands of years without maintenance and still be able to do its job properly. At what point does this sound like it takes a small amount of power to accomplish?

The point where you are completely unable to show that any actual work has been done.

[Stark]

What. This white one?

Oh so it's only inside individual forums. No WONDER I couldn't find it!