If the empire sets out to conquer the SG universe how...

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-10-18 06:12pm

Your entire post summarized: "Hey! It was hashed out in this very thread earlier! But I'm just going to ignore that and go back to repeating my claim anyway."

PunkMaister wrote:Still I would preffer to stick to cannon if you don't mind.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-19 06:15pm

Surlethe wrote:Your entire post summarized: "Hey! It was hashed out in this very thread earlier! But I'm just going to ignore that and go back to repeating my claim anyway."

PunkMaister wrote:Still I would preffer to stick to cannon if you don't mind.

Umm... I meant the show's cannon but I guess that since I did not noticed the debate turning into an AU version of SG earlier on that will have to do.

Too bad though...
I still think it would have been much cooler to keep the SGverse as it is...

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-19 06:25pm

Still don't get it do you PunkMaister... tsk tsk. The correct term is Canon.
A cannon is a projetile weapon capable of propelling a solid bullet distances and has a usual classifaction as artillery, though cannons on airplanes are bigger guns with slower rate of fire.
Then again when did this turn Alternate Universe? When they did have knowledge of the Starwars Universe? Laughable though.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-19 06:55pm

jareth1138 wrote:Still don't get it do you PunkMaister... tsk tsk. The correct term is Canon.
A cannon is a projetile weapon capable of propelling a solid bullet distances and has a usual classifaction as artillery, though cannons on airplanes are bigger guns with slower rate of fire.
Then again when did this turn Alternate Universe? When they did have knowledge of the Starwars Universe? Laughable though.

No is not laughable by any stretch of the imagination. In the show the refferences to both Star Wars and Star Trek are almost constant!

If you don't believe me go watch Prometheus Unbound. and then come back and tell me how laughable the concept really is. This is Stargate we are talking about not Star Trek. Now in Star Trek is a given they have no knowledge whatsoever of Star Wars. It has never been referenced in any of the shows or movies.

BTW thanks for correcting my grammar regarding canon and cannon.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-19 07:01pm

Then you haven't heard about humor then. They call them Cliche's. Its supposed to be funny.
The references about shields and stuff are jokes made to be funny. In addition they never mention any series by name due to copyright etc. So you cannot prove they know anything. They only hinting at the knowledge because the show is supposed to be in modern times with the same general knowledge we do with a few exceptions. In startrek they never mentioned any reference to starwars, but that doesn't mean they don't have a reference. Remeber they went through a armegeddon style WW3, during which the knowledge could have been lost.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-10-19 09:59pm

In 'Ascension' Teal'c explicitly says he has seen Star Wars nine times! AND O'Neill has never seen it AND they had the tape there with Pizza to have lunch with Carter.

Said plan they dropped when Carter was busy with her Boyfriend causing Teal'c and O'Neill to pick up Daniel and go to a strip club

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-20 07:04pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:

In 'Ascension' Teal'c explicitly says he has seen Star Wars nine times! AND O'Neill has never seen it AND they had the tape there with Pizza to have lunch with Carter.

Said plan they dropped when Carter was busy with her Boyfriend causing Teal'c and O'Neill to pick up Daniel and go to a strip club

Thank you!

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-10-20 09:41pm

WRT harvesting energy from degenerate stellar objects- don't forget GPE.

The influx of matter into a neutron star is something like 60 times more efficient then hydrogen fusion is IIRC. Conservation of energy says the gravitational potential energy must be conserved and is thus released when it hits the stellar surface. Harvesting that would be very nice.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-20 10:13pm

PunkMaister wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:

In 'Ascension' Teal'c explicitly says he has seen Star Wars nine times! AND O'Neill has never seen it AND they had the tape there with Pizza to have lunch with Carter.

Said plan they dropped when Carter was busy with her Boyfriend causing Teal'c and O'Neill to pick up Daniel and go to a strip club
Thank you!

One thing you are taking from Chris remarks that make no sense is this, is regarding Teal'c love is for a program, a piece of fantasy his world has(the same as ours)

To give an example, let's have Kirk meet SG-1....do we now have the SG-1 team have internal knowledge of Kirk, Spock and crew because of a television program from their world?

One thing is a joke, another is a violation of Suspension of disbelief, but granting what you've shown, I doubt you understand the conudrum.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-20 10:26pm

One thing is a joke, another is a violation of Suspension of disbelief, but granting what you've shown, I doubt you understand the conudrum.

Dude! It really would not be that much of a problem in the StarGate universe to explain away how a supposedly fantasy world all of a a sudden becomes all to real. There's plenty of people that have the ancients gene and in the SGverse one could say that GL have the gene and somehow saw real events on a faraway galaxy and filling with his imagination the rest made it into the films we all know and love...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-20 10:31pm

PunkMaister wrote:
One thing is a joke, another is a violation of Suspension of disbelief, but granting what you've shown, I doubt you understand the conudrum.
Dude! It really would not be that much of a problem in the StarGate universe to explain away how a supposedly fantasy world all of a a sudden becomes all to real. There's plenty of people that have the ancients gene and in the SGverse one could say that GL have the gene and somehow saw real events on a faraway galaxy and filling with his imagination the rest made it into the films we all know and love...

I see, you don't grasp what I said.

Okay, smaller words for the retard, because Suspension of Disbelief doesn't actually enter that thick skull of yours.

That vision of Star Wars is just a story, the GE in this scenario is a real organization.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-10-20 10:35pm

In other words, they would have very little "useful" information.

I think.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-20 10:39pm

Majin Gojira wrote:In other words, they would have very little "useful" information.

I think.

In essence. It would be akin to saying Angel meets Mal and warns them of an event from the telvision show because he saw it in 2002.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-21 02:12pm

see, you don't grasp what I said.

Okay, smaller words for the retard, because Suspension of Disbelief doesn't actually enter that thick skull of yours.

That vision of Star Wars is just a story, the GE in this scenario is a real organization.

Dude first of all you mentioned a conundrum. Now off course the GE being for real would be a lot larger than life than we have ever observed in the movies. If there is something I have learned in life is that reality is always stranger than fiction and I mean always. For example if we were to meet the GE for real anything that we saw in the movies, novels etc would pale in comparison to what the real M'ckoy could do. For instance I don't doubt that if there was a real GE outhere their fighters would be able to do things that we have never observed in the films such as doing 90 degree turns at the flip of a coin instead of maneuvering like combat aircraft through an athmosphere. In fact that is what I'm trying to portray in fanfic I've been writting.
Having said that however they would have a good idea of the policies and intentions the empire may have.

BTW: Regarding Earth being a backwater world they would not have much interest in us, except for the Ancients outpost in Antartica.
Knowing that a backwater world filled with savages hell bent on tribal warfare is in possesion of such a weapon would pick their interest.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-21 04:02pm

Except for the fact that Said weapon and world are partically minisucle as a threat to the GE.
1. Earth during SG-1 is divided and the stargate program is a secret. Meaning that an organized defense or offense would be questionable at best.
2. It really hasn't been proven that the ancient technology could actually hurt Imperial Warships.
3. Earth has no Space Navy to speak of. Their only planetary defense is one ship, some missle equipped fighters and powerful allies who either have similarly less powerful ships are powerful ships and few numbers.
4. Why would the Empire care about a primitive and divided world having advanced technology that they can't really manufacture more of or even replicate it.
5. How would one weapon with probably limited ammo really cause the Empire to divert ships to take this weapon that would probably be on par with concussion missles or torpedos?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-21 04:26pm

PunkMaister wrote:
see, you don't grasp what I said.

Okay, smaller words for the retard, because Suspension of Disbelief doesn't actually enter that thick skull of yours.

That vision of Star Wars is just a story, the GE in this scenario is a real organization.
Dude first of all you mentioned a conundrum. Now off course the GE being for real would be a lot larger than life than we have ever observed in the movies. If there is something I have learned in life is that reality is always stranger than fiction and I mean always. For example if we were to meet the GE for real anything that we saw in the movies, novels etc would pale in comparison to what the real M'ckoy could do. For instance I don't doubt that if there was a real GE outhere their fighters would be able to do things that we have never observed in the films such as doing 90 degree turns at the flip of a coin instead of maneuvering like combat aircraft through an athmosphere. In fact that is what I'm trying to portray in fanfic I've been writting.
Having said that however they would have a good idea of the policies and intentions the empire may have.

Selective jibbering nonsense does not make a rebuttal.

BTW: Regarding Earth being a backwater world they would not have much interest in us, except for the Ancients outpost in Antartica.
Knowing that a backwater world filled with savages hell bent on tribal warfare is in possesion of such a weapon would pick their interest.

Is this one single outpost that they limited the knowledge of activation going to turn any tide ikn an event of their imminent destruction?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-10-21 05:08pm

jareth1138 wrote:5. How would one weapon with probably limited ammo really cause the Empire to divert ships to take this weapon that would probably be on par with concussion missles or torpedos?

There is however, a distinct possibility that squids could penetrate imperial shields. Would they want a one-shot-one-kill anti-fighter missile system that needs no maintainance to kill rebel-X-wings? Is the pope a catholic?

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-21 05:46pm

Okay I admit, that if it did pentrate shields then yes the Empire would find it very useful, for either killing fighters or for the people like me who like to see lots of missles flying in space a one time.
I don't see the Rebellion doing well if their capital ships and fighters disappear under a cloud of the squids. Maybe that is a potentially good technology only made better by the Empire.
Though a little off topic, I hope the guys from homeworld never get their hands on it.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-21 08:14pm

Is this one single outpost that they limited the knowledge of activation going to turn any tide ikn an event of their imminent destruction?

That's not the reason why they would be interested.
The reason as others have posted is to get thei hands on the technology from the ancients outpost and no it would not make much of a difference if it came toa full scale invasion. The outpost could destroy some ships but it would run out of squids long before the empire runs out of ships.

And honestly to destroy a backwater world like ours serves no purpose.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-21 09:34pm

You forget however that only certain humans can use ancient Technology. While other humans in the galaxy can only the ones on Earth know how to find people with the ability to do so. Therefore the elimination of Earth puts a group of people with the knowledge of ancient technology and further reducing possible resistance. In addition ancient libraries are easier to draw information from then having to battle a operational battle station. To grab the technology from an entrenched military force. While the opposing military forces would be unsuperior why waste resources when you can decimate the planet, killing off possible resistance, and proceed to find an ancient library that would contain more data then a simple base would.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-21 10:05pm

jareth1138 wrote:You forget however that only certain humans can use ancient Technology. While other humans in the galaxy can only the ones on Earth know how to find people with the ability to do so. Therefore the elimination of Earth puts a group of people with the knowledge of ancient technology and further reducing possible resistance. In addition ancient libraries are easier to draw information from then having to battle a operational battle station. To grab the technology from an entrenched military force. While the opposing military forces would be unsuperior why waste resources when you can decimate the planet, killing off possible resistance, and proceed to find an ancient library that would contain more data then a simple base would.

Well for one Earth could very well be the birthplace of all the humans that inhabit their galaxy and if it is they would be destroying their very birthright. Besides I think we are more useful to them alive than turned into cosmic dust...

Besides as you said we know about the anciens tech more than they do so they would need to at least capture as much Earthlings that could be helpfull as possible. You can't do that by decimating the planet. Anymore than Darth Vader could hope to capture Luke by decimating the planet Hoth.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-10-22 12:45am

Why would the Empire care if Earth really was the origin of SW humans?

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-22 12:46am

And how exactly would we be more useful to them. America as the main organization for the Stargate Program is not going to bow down to the Empire just because their stronger. The Jaffa both free and enslave won't bow either. There is no way that Earth would actually surrender to the Galatic Empire. Remeber even when faced with total destruction SG-1 continued to fight, they did infact win over Aphopis but just barely and with inside aid.
As for Vader and Luke that is similar to this but that dealt with two individuals with similar power and abilities though not equal in strength.
But in this scenario we are talking about a WHOLE planet not 2 people. Besides we don't know that much about the ancients anyway. Besides basic stuff they only really data is held by ancient libraries, Atlantis and the Asgard. We could only provide the ability to find the able to use the technology. You could however somehow connect it with force abilities, if you tried really hard (somehow).
So do you think handing over a small amount of information in exchange for total tyranny is worth it???
Why would they care about their birthright and planet of origin. This is the Galatic Empire not a bunch of heart throbing Starfleet people. The Emperor is their "God" and Coruscant is the "homeworld". Its called Propoganda.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-10-22 12:53am

PunkMaister wrote:Well for one Earth could very well be the birthplace of all the humans that inhabit their galaxy and if it is they would be destroying their very birthright.

Tarken had no reservation destroying Alderaan, which was one of the earliest major planets colonised by humans.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2005-10-22 07:38pm

jareth1138 wrote:And how exactly would we be more useful to them. America as the main organization for the Stargate Program is not going to bow down to the Empire just because their stronger. The Jaffa both free and enslave won't bow either. There is no way that Earth would actually surrender to the Galatic Empire. Remeber even when faced with total destruction SG-1 continued to fight, they did infact win over Aphopis but just barely and with inside aid.
As for Vader and Luke that is similar to this but that dealt with two individuals with similar power and abilities though not equal in strength.
But in this scenario we are talking about a WHOLE planet not 2 people. Besides we don't know that much about the ancients anyway. Besides basic stuff they only really data is held by ancient libraries, Atlantis and the Asgard. We could only provide the ability to find the able to use the technology. You could however somehow connect it with force abilities, if you tried really hard (somehow).
So do you think handing over a small amount of information in exchange for total tyranny is worth it???
Why would they care about their birthright and planet of origin. This is the Galatic Empire not a bunch of heart throbing Starfleet people. The Emperor is their "God" and Coruscant is the "homeworld". Its called Propoganda.

In ST vs SW scenarios Earth is simply conquered. Why can't it work the same way for present day SG earth?
And if it came down to tyranny vs total anihilation the U.S and the rest of the world powers would choose unconditional surrender as the only viable choice...