The Culture vs. the Galactic Empire

Eddy the Very Great · Post by **Eddy the Very Great** » 2003-04-12 04:54pm

What kind of story would these books have. You can't have a problem if the tech can solve it so easily.

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-04-12 04:55pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Eddy the Very Great wrote:And I don't plan to. The culture is just too powerful for me to find interesting.
Its not about the tech stupid, its about the story, and the characters, like in ALL books.

Or have you not read one in the last seven years or so?

I'd say he's illitirate, but he can atleast read these posts, so that's a no... although it does explain why he doesn't seem to understand anything...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-12 04:55pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:What kind of story would these books have. You can't have a problem if the tech can solve it so easily.

With your stunning level of intelect, you might be better off not reading the books.

Eddy the Very Great · Post by **Eddy the Very Great** » 2003-04-12 04:58pm

It's a good question. Really, how can you have a problem when you have such powerful computers running everything?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-12 05:02pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:It's a good question. Really, how can you have a problem when you have such powerful computers running everything?

Rather then turn people into zombies (you know, mind controled), Culture likes to use secret contact organizations to alter and assist lesser societies.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-04-12 05:05pm

Alyeska wrote:
Eddy the Very Great wrote:It's a good question. Really, how can you have a problem when you have such powerful computers running everything?
Rather then turn people into zombies (you know, mind controled), Culture likes to use secret contact organizations to alter and assist lesser societies.

Also, I would like to point out that even though the Minds are powerful, they are in no way omnipoternt. They still make mistakes.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-12 05:07pm

I'm going to be honest with you, I've never read it. Doesn't matter though, if this guy's managed to make, what, eight books? with is, there's going to be plenty of story to tell.

Eddy the Very Great · Post by **Eddy the Very Great** » 2003-04-12 05:12pm

I thought they were millions of time smarter than humans. How does something like that make a mistake?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-12 05:14pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:I thought they were millions of time smarter than humans. How does something like that make a mistake?

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-04-12 05:17pm

Here's an example of how the books work: The Player of Games is about a guy named Jernau Morat Gurgeh who loves games of all kinds, and has played all of them the Culture has to offer. He has grown bored, and asks the Contact section to find him something to do. Out in one of the Magellanic Clouds is a civilization called the Empire of Azad. This empire is based entirely on a game called Azad. All the positions and roles within this empire are determined by playing this game, with the grand prize being the Emperor's throne. Contact ships him out there to play Azad. The book covers a short portion of his life on his home Orbital, his trip to Azad and his time there playing the game. A very good, engaging story with interesting plot twists. In my opinion, one of the best Culture novels.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-04-12 05:20pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:I thought they were millions of time smarter than humans. How does something like that make a mistake?

They make mistakes by not having all the information necessary for some particular situation, or by being forced into a particular course of action by forces beyond their control, or by any number of other mechanisms. They are not omnipotent, they are not omniscient, and they are not perfect.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-04-12 05:23pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:It's a good question. Really, how can you have a problem when you have such powerful computers running everything?

Well, for one, they could have some really fucking stupid kid who hangs around them and babbles about shit he doesn't understand, but they can't just go and kill him or easilly shut him up. I know that's a real pain-in-the-ass problem to deal with, especially when it occurs in the place you normally hang out...

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-04-12 05:39pm

XaLEv wrote:
Eddy the Very Great wrote:I thought they were millions of time smarter than humans. How does something like that make a mistake?
They make mistakes by not having all the information necessary for some particular situation, or by being forced into a particular course of action by forces beyond their control, or by any number of other mechanisms. They are not omnipotent, they are not omniscient, and they are not perfect.

If I may, the entire plot of Look to Windward was because Contact made a big mistake while rearranging the government of the Chelgians.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-04-12 05:43pm

WTF is the Culture?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-04-12 05:44pm

Darth Gojira wrote:WTF is the Culture?

You're not serious, are you?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-12 05:46pm

Darth Gojira wrote:WTF is the Culture?

Look to the link at the top of the OSF forum, please.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-12 06:00pm

I do enjoy the petty fanboy attacks about how the Culture is too powerful. Said fanboys then go and ejaculate pints over a Star Destroyer being able to vape the crust off a planet in hours. Hmm, hypocritical is an overused word I think, so I suppose sad will have to do.

Of course Mr. Banks doesn't give a shit for versus debates because he is writing a story and not a porn mag for the technologically challenged. Even if his ships were literal gods or rustbuckets the Pakled would shun, I doubt he’d really care either way.

How about I get you a copy of Popular Mechanics, Eddy, so you can go to the bathroom and let it all out if it's a little more realistic.

Oh by the way, going by some of the "logic" shown here, a Tom Clancy or Jeff Archer novel would be a better read than any Wars, Trek, Culture or whatever novel since the tech is not technowank turbolasers or Gridfire or antimatter or obscure magic. After all, those with the fallible and more real tech are obviously better stories (provided it suits the fanboy who can’t win the versus argument).

Eddy the Very Great · Post by **Eddy the Very Great** » 2003-04-12 06:18pm

I guess you're right.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-12 06:27pm

Eddy the Very Great wrote:I guess you're right.

I know I'm right.

Do yourself a favour, get some cash out of the piggybank, go to a local bookstore (or Amazon, they can be rare finds in non Commonwealth nations thanks to his publishers) and try and get one of Banks' Culture novels. You'll be pleasantly surprised, I can guarantee it. If you want help on picking a book, just ask.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-12 07:48pm

The local Barnes and Noble actually has Culture novels. Well, some of them, anyway.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-04-12 08:01pm

kojikun wrote:The local Barnes and Noble actually has Culture novels. Well, some of them, anyway.

Yeah, the only ones I could find were Excession and Look to Windward. Consider Phlebias, Use of Weapons, and Player of Games are nowhere to be found

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2003-04-12 08:14pm

Vorlon1701 wrote:
kojikun wrote:The local Barnes and Noble actually has Culture novels. Well, some of them, anyway.
Yeah, the only ones I could find were Excession and Look to Windward. Consider Phlebias, Use of Weapons, and Player of Games are nowhere to be found

Funny, I can find those three no problem but I can't get Excession or Look to Windward.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-04-12 09:13pm

You can sometimes find the earlier ones at sci-fi conventions, but I have found the price to be prohibitive(fricking signed first edition dealers).

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-04-13 03:57am

Eddy the Very Great wrote:It's a good question. Really, how can you have a problem when you have such powerful computers running everything?

Well, they try to enhance other civilizations to integrate them later, and to achieve that objective they use few, very subtle interventions, which means that a certain aleatory factor can mess up things at close lightspeed ( see : Look to Windward ).

Not to mention that, while they could use artificial, superior beings to do what they want with lesser civilizations, the Minds choose to trust humans to execute their requests ( "orders" is a politically incorrect term in the Culture, wether it refers to an AI asking a bio to do something or a bio asking a drone to do another thing ), and as far as humans are concerned, trouble is never far away...

Finally, while most galactic civilizations are far beneath the Culture in terms of tech/power/wealth, there are still races ( like the Homomdans ) that are equal or superior to the Culture. To put it simply, every superior civilization in the Galaxy use God-like IAs ( of course, the Minds of the Culture are those with the greater degree of free will ) to pilot ships or design tech. And when those AIs face each other, it can take the form of human-level plots ( a close example would be the human storyline of Excession ). The Culture isn't the only big badass in the area, it has allies, rivals and implacable foes.

One word about the tech : while the stories aren't about the tech, I feel free to enjoy what IMB shows us. The tech is original ( effectors, medical and funtech... ), and even if the power levels were scaled down to so-called "reasonable" levels, the stories could still work well. The mainframe of the Culture could be the set of say, some Orion's Arm stories : you keep the God-level IAs and orbitals and society, and you scale down everything else to "realistic" levels, and fine.

But of course, it's always fun as hell to piss off Warsies

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-04-13 03:59am

FUQ, the link isn't correct, try this

www.orionsarm.com

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Culture vs. the Galactic Empire

What happens when the Culture contacts the Empire?