Sci Fi power ranking

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-10 04:16pm

Braedley wrote:I think these rankings should be based soley on tech levels, not military might, size of an empire, etc.

In an all out war millitary might and numbers are matters. This is supposed to be a power ranking after all. Tech levels should be measured in terms of performance in this reard.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-10 04:16pm

InnocentBystander wrote:
SirNitram wrote:S8472? The group so pathetic they can't destroy an Intrepid-class with their uberguns and retreat if they lose like twelve starships? Let's not waste bandwidth on Monsters Of The Week.
Weren't we supposed to be looking at overall tech, not competence in using it?

If you can't pop a Federation science ship, your guns are pretty weak on this chart. If you lack the military size to accept twelve soldiers as losses without organizing a full fucking retreat, your military is pathetic in scope.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-04-10 05:53pm

Coyote wrote:Two things to bear in mind, we need to remember total overall tech, not just ass-kicking military applications. The "Dune" universe seems really light on military tech in any form, but they still have Galaxy-spanning ships that cross the void without even a thought to how unusual that is. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Total overall tech translates into military potency. Dune universe instant FTL would be a strategic advantage (although somewhat negated by the fact that all you'd have to do is take Arakkis and deprive them of spice and it would utterly destroy their civilization). Also, numbers count as well as tech. A lot of SF powers would be able to totally beat up the Dune Imperium if we were just counting tech but would never be able to overcome their huge numbers advantage.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2005-04-10 07:32pm

Which Dune universe? in the post-Leto perios, Ixian navigation machines and synthetic Melange had broken the guild's monopoly on space travel, and they had developed lasgun/shield space mines and undetectable no-ships, among other things.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-04-10 08:24pm

Where would the Daleks go?

They were a little below the Time Lords, but who isnt.

I think like Culture level, certainly above the Empire because they had time travel and DS-scale weapons on their individual ships.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-04-10 08:27pm

I'd put money on a stormtrooper shooting a dalek for no effect.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2005-04-10 10:57pm

Lord Zentei wrote: The same applies to your garden-variety planets, yes? Besides, the Craftworlds are hundreds of miles across - Deathstar sized colony ships. I'm not about to see the average Trek powers launch a credible attack against that.

True to a point I agree, and certainly with the possible exception of the NG Borg I don't see any Trek power bieng a threat to a Craft world, I was thinking more in relation to some more crediable universes.

Besides unless the Eldar craftworld was well and truely fubared the Trek powers could not in many instances reach them. I mean half a galaxy is roughly the range for most of them assuming access to the Bajorn wormhole.

My main contention is that I would expect the Eldar to be 2nd lowest of the 40K powers. Lack of numbers means they have to be careful and can't sustain too many attacks. (Tau would be lowest) On the offensive they are of course going to be much better off, but this is an overall chart and I fear the lack of numbers mean while winning every battle the Eldar have the cability to lose the war.

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-04-10 11:54pm

Junghalli wrote: Total overall tech translates into military potency. ... A lot of SF powers would be able to totally beat up the Dune Imperium if we were just counting tech but would never be able to overcome their huge numbers advantage.

I'm not saying military tech is a non-issue, but it is not the only measure of technical achievement in an overall ranking. For example, the Colonial Marines from "Aliens" showed superior military competence than the House Corrino Sardaukar, but that does not negate the fact that the Dune universe is technically more advanced.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 12:25am

Skelron wrote:My main contention is that I would expect the Eldar to be 2nd lowest of the 40K powers. Lack of numbers means they have to be careful and can't sustain too many attacks. (Tau would be lowest) On the offensive they are of course going to be much better off, but this is an overall chart and I fear the lack of numbers mean while winning every battle the Eldar have the cability to lose the war.

Their lack of numbers is made up for by precognition and manipulation skills: note that Grazkull's attack on Armageddon in the 2nd war of that name was engineered by the Eldar. They manipulate others into bleeding for them.

Of course if it is a straightforward one on one dukeout "two empires enter, one empire leaves" kind of thing then the situation changes. Anyway even being the third lowest of the 40K powers (above the Tau and Dark Eldar) there are still plenty left for them to trump.

The chart from page 1 from modern Earth to IoM:

Imperium of Man (WH40K)
Tyrannids
Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Orks (WH40K)
Scarrans
Peacekeepers
Concordiat
Vorlons & Shadows
Borg
Sephirotic metaempire (Orion's Arm)
Republic of Man (Resnick's universe)
Tar Aiym (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Tau
Zerg
Gao'uld
Dominion
Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
Kilrathi
Hominid Phylum
Imperium (Dune universe)
Protoss
Starfire universe
Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Puppeteers
Covenant
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Haloverse humans
Starcraft Terrans
Wraiths (SG:A)
Federation (Trek)
Romulans
Klingons
Known Space humans
Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Minbari
League of Nobles (Dune prequel novels)
Synchronized Worlds (Dune prequel novels)
Fifty Spacer Worlds (Foundationverse)
Earth Alliance (B5)
Narn
Terran Federation (SST movie)
Eldar
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
Gundam
The Alien universe
Dark Eldar
ID4 aliens
The Race
Draka (as of 2004)
modern Earth

Placing either of the Eldar below any of the B5 powers or Trek powers other than the Borg is just stupid. There is no other word for it than that. Moreover the Craftworld Eldar trump the Protoss and the Dark Eldar trump the Starcraft humans. Based on this the chart should be as follows (apart from other changes):

Imperium of Man (WH40K)
Tyrannids
Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Orks (WH40K)
Scarrans
Peacekeepers
Concordiat
Vorlons & Shadows
Borg
Sephirotic metaempire (Orion's Arm)
Republic of Man (Resnick's universe)
Tar Aiym (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Tau
Zerg
Gao'uld
Dominion
Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
Kilrathi
Hominid Phylum
Imperium (Dune universe)
Eldar - minimum
Protoss
Starfire universe
Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Puppeteers
Covenant
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Dark Eldar
Haloverse humans
Starcraft Terrans
Wraiths (SG:A)
Federation (Trek)
Romulans
Klingons
Known Space humans
Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Minbari
League of Nobles (Dune prequel novels)
Synchronized Worlds (Dune prequel novels)
Fifty Spacer Worlds (Foundationverse)
Earth Alliance (B5)
Narn
Terran Federation (SST movie)
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
Gundam
The Alien universe
ID4 aliens
The Race
Draka (as of 2004)
modern Earth

PS: the Gao'uld are way too high up.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2005-04-11 12:30am

Lord Zentei

Agreed with your arguments and minimum positions, not that I was hard to convince, I wanted to be convinced I'm an Eldar fan. I always forget the DE as a seperate race, but yeah they would be below the Craftworlders...

Heres a question based on what we know where would you place the Exodite Eldar, below or above the Dark Eldar?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 12:33am

Skelron wrote:Lord Zentei

Agreed with your arguments and minimum positions, not that I was hard to convince, I wanted to be convinced I'm an Eldar fan. I always forget the DE as a seperate race, but yeah they would be below the Craftworlders...

Heres a question based on what we know where would you place the Exodite Eldar, below or above the Dark Eldar?

Definately below. They tend to need protecting from the Dark Eldar by the Craftworld Eldar. Also, very limited technology.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 12:38am

Holy shit, I just saw the placement of the Tau and the Shadows+Vorlons. Whose bright idea was it to place the Eldar nine points above modern bloody Earth and the Tau way up in the upper third

Knock the S+V down a shiteload of places, and place the Tau below the Eldar. Crist's sakes.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2005-04-11 01:05am

COREverse would go somewhere above the SW Galactic Empire. Slightly slower normal FTL, but what seem to be more powerful weapons, larger and tougher vessels, man-portable surface-to-space weapons, quantum cybernetics, and control of large portions of five galaxies. A single (admittedly specialized) frigate can punch through over 2 kilometers of perfect battle steel with a single shot of its main cannon. Once the FAQ and errata come out correcting some typos in the main books I'll be better able to say just what CORE is capable of.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-04-11 01:19am

SCVN 2812 wrote:United Earth and Chigs (Space: Above and Beyond) should probably go above The Race and below the Alien Universe. Not knowing much or anything about the Dark Eldar, I can't really place them exactly.

Soo, how about Space: Above and Beyond making some revision of the list hmm?

Anyway going over the Colonial Marines Tech Manual looks like in terms of military tech SAAB and Aliens are relatively evenly matched at short ranges but the Colonial Marines and Aliens in general take it because of the more realistic ranges they fight at and their greater industrial base, some 200 charted planets at least some of which are probably inhabited.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-04-11 02:06am

Lord Zentei wrote:Knock the S+V down a shiteload of places, and place the Tau below the Eldar. Crist's sakes.

I'm not sure, don't the Tau, like actually have an empire (albeit a small one)?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-04-11 02:07am

Junghalli wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:Knock the S+V down a shiteload of places, and place the Tau below the Eldar. Crist's sakes.
I'm not sure, don't the Tau, like actually have an empire (albeit a small one)?

Very small. If the Eldar really wanted to, they could rape them sideways with a chainsword.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-11 03:31am

WTF are the IoM and the Orks doing so high? Gettem down.`

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 05:47am

NecronLord wrote:WTF are the IoM and the Orks doing so high? Gettem down.`

Yes, the list was inherited from the previous thread; I only modified the Eldar position in it.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 06:09am

Colour coded the various empires on a per-setting basis. Also:

* Borg to go below the Zerg, above the Goa'uld
* Vorlons, Shadows to go below Eldar, above Protoss
* Tau to go below Eldar. Also below V+S due to numbers disparity, though this is highly debatable due to firepower/engagement range disparity.
* IoM, Tyranids and Orks to go below SG1 Ancients and Farscape Ancients.
* Position of empires in white to be taken with grain of salt.

Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Imperium of Man (WH40K)
Tyrannids
Orks (WH40K)
Scarrans
Peacekeepers
Concordiat
Sephirotic metaempire (Orion's Arm)
Republic of Man (Resnick's universe)
Tar Aiym (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Zerg
Borg
Goa'uld
Dominion
Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
Kilrathi
Hominid Phylum
Imperium (Dune universe)
Eldar - minimum
Vorlons & Shadows
Tau
Protoss
Starfire universe
Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Puppeteers
Covenant
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Dark Eldar
Haloverse humans
Starcraft Terrans
Wraiths (SG:A)
Federation (Trek)
Romulans
Klingons
Known Space humans
Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Minbari
League of Nobles (Dune prequel novels)
Synchronized Worlds (Dune prequel novels)
Fifty Spacer Worlds (Foundationverse)
Earth Alliance (B5)
Narn
Terran Federation (SST movie)
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
Gundam
The Alien universe
ID4 aliens
The Race
Draka (as of 2004)
modern Earth

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-11 06:11am

Borg, Dominion still way too high... (sorry, clicked Submit instead of Preview)

Anyway: suggestions?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-04-11 06:32am

Why are the Zerg above both the Terrans AND the Protoss?

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2005-04-11 07:01am

Stofsk well the last time we saw them the Zerg seemed to be winning. Kerrigan was queen bitch of the galazy and the Protoss and Terrans where in retreat.

Now if Blizzard would hurry up and give us Starcraft 2 that may change...

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-04-11 07:57am

NecronLord wrote:WTF are the IoM and the Orks doing so high? Gettem down.`

Well the way orks work is they scavenge technology meaning they adapt fast. Also the way orks breed (fungus) if you get one ork on a planet you will never get rid of them. This allows them to take on pretty much anyone ignoring there military power.

I think they are in the wright place in the new colour list.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-04-11 08:10am

Now we have a working list let’s add in more universes.

Fist Peter F. Hamilton night’s dawn trilogies confederation.
No energy shields. FTL of 15 light years in a few seconds but they need to recharge after. Standard beam weapons (I can not tell you the power) robot combat drones (which can be armed with antimatter) fusion powered.

They have outlawed antimatter but have showmen they will use it when push comes to shove.

Affinity gene in the edenist allows them to control there organic technology with there mind and talk to other edenist.

Computers implanted into the brain allow adamist to control there mechanical technology.

They have a weapon that can bow up (or implode) and sun or gas giant. But this is likely lost technology.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-04-11 08:33am

Skelron wrote:Stofsk well the last time we saw them the Zerg seemed to be winning. Kerrigan was queen bitch of the galazy and the Protoss and Terrans where in retreat.

That has nothing to do with their power, and EVERYTHING to do with the idiocy of the Terran and Protoss leadership.