A new Star Wars game?

Bob The Great · Post by **Bob The Great** » 2002-10-02 02:06am

thanks Darth. Like I said, I'm full of ideas, but have no programming experience. Anyway, good luck on your WC3 mod. That's a game that's brimming with modding potential!

WhiteStarPrime · Post by **WhiteStarPrime** » 2002-10-02 05:09am

I have always want to fly with out X Wing pilots on some mission. Or at the battle of Endor. Full Squadrons with voice commands an work together like a Squadron.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-02 06:09am

Seems like you missed that out, Whitestar.
1.There are already plenty of SW fighter games out there
2.This gonna be the first kick-ass capship battle simulator.

WhiteStarPrime · Post by **WhiteStarPrime** » 2002-10-02 07:30am

Cpt_Frank wrote:Seems like you missed that out, Whitestar.
1.There are already plenty of SW fighter games out there
2.This gonna be the first kick-ass capship battle simulator.

Star Wars X Wing Alliance type game. With team involvement. Like Counter Strike.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-02 08:12am

Xwing vs TIE fighter is that pretty much we need a kick-ass capital ship battle simulator. Why do something that has been done a million times before? This game could be revolutionary!

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2002-10-02 09:55am

I wouldn't say revolutionary. Different, but only revolutionary when compared to a 'X-wing game with more squadron work'. more like a refined hybrid between that kind of game and SW: Rebellion, with capital ship combat and tactics emphasis.

Star Wars Galaxies; now that's revolutionary. 30 years and no SW RPG untill now? What's up with that?

An original Star Wars version of Escape-Velocity might be revolutionary.

A team-based 3rd-person tactical game of a stormtrooper platoon might be revolutionary.

But this game, while potential, isn't revolutionary. Simply expanding X-wing: Alliance isn't different, either.

Dolman · Post by **Dolman** » 2002-10-02 01:25pm

Hi, Sorry I have not been around, I was moving to Uni and haven't had net access for a few days. Here is the latest update on the programming front: There is still no news on when DirectX 9 or its SDK is coming out so I started work on the physics architecture. Although documented as phase 2, I need some of the physics to make the graphics demo. This demo will be release soon after I get hold of DirectX 9 & SDK.

master_yoda · Post by **master_yoda** » 2002-10-03 11:04pm

hey maybe if the games really successful, after you could make a sw vs st add-on for it. It should be like not very easy (like 1 ISD vs heaps of GCS's)
Or maybe not..

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2002-10-04 12:58am

I dont really think it matters whether it is revolutionary or not. What matters is that this is a way to redress the balance of games currently in the market. Why should the trekkies have all the fun, with games such as Bridge Commander and the like.

ATM if we want to play those games with a starwars bent, we have to download Mod after mod, and hope and pray they dont stuff our machine or game.

The last crop of SW games that came out were great in gameplay, but left something lacking. And I believe that thing was the scope of the gameplay. Who wants to be a fighter jock, in which realistically if you fighter or yourself die, isnt going to matter in the grander scheme. Me, I prefer the idea of working on a larger stage. Id rather try and emulate ( Ok, Im dreaming

) Thrawn, than Wedge Antilles, or SoonTir Fel. Be in a position of command where whole systems are your targets, not just some petty starbase.

Letsee...a choice between admiral and starfighter pilot...I know which one I choose. The closest we came to it was (erk!) Rebellion...but still better than any trekkie orientated game.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-10-04 04:15am

hmmm how about Civilization in the SW galaxy?

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2002-10-06 04:14am

Hoo boy, where to begin. I suppose I'll have to make a lot of little posts.
First off, damn. Really. I've been looking for you guys for about two years now. No one would listen to me that LucasArts is incapable of making a great game, one that actually captures the concept of Star Wars. The X-Wing games were pretty good, but they just didn't cut it. I can't say I've played much of the others, but I'm familiar with them, and so far there isn't anything impressive on the subjects of Stars and War. Furthermore, up till recently the world was severely lacking for space sims. There just wasn't anything that really defined the genre, and nothing that wasn't as much arcade as sim. Now, two big projects I've been keeping my eye on are I Found Her and Starshatter. IFH is a Babylon 5 freeware game that is being developed along with a marketed game called Homeplanet.
Starshatter is being developed by one guy named Milo, who has mentioned a potential price of around $20-$30. Starshatter is botha fighter sim and a capship sim, set in an original universe based on current naval strategy. It has a dynamic campaign and is quite moddable. It even includes a modeling tool, and will include multiplayer in the CD release. I mention it because it is an example of capship combat done simply but well. No bridge. Bare-bones but effective screens for fighter control and engineering. Weapon control is limited to a few settings for four weapons groups. Sensor stealth is a major issue. No troops, no boarding, no orbital bombardment. You can, however, send or fly down fighters for pinpoint strikes. Physics are almost entirely realistic, and include a fight control computer for the fighters which allows them to handle a bit like SW fighters do. All ship functions are controlled directly by the player, except for engineering, which has an optional autorepair AI. I had considered making some limited mods to SS and trying to convince some warsie gamers to join me. Milo himself mentioned the potential of a SWvST mod. There are quite a few problems with this, of course, since the game just isn't built around SW. Then, I came across this thread.
IFH is a fighter sim, but I mention it primarily because of the method by which it is being created. The game you guys are considering is far too ambitious not to sell. Plus, LA wouldn't stand for a freeware release of a game that's of a higher quality then their own products. The IFH method is to create a game that's almost exactly like what you want, particularly in the physics and gameplay departments, and soon after release put a near-indentical freeware game with different meshes, images, music and voiceovers up for download, or release a mod that makes a few changes to the exe and replace the meshes and images to make it Star Wars. You'd have a kickass game on your hands in an almost completely unexplored genre with a Star Wars theme in a semi-legit manner. And keep a low profile. I honestly don't see how you could accomplish it otherwise. Even so, that whole bit doesn't even need to be explored for about a year, giving time to be certain that the project will take off.
You may wish to talk to the developers of these games, they have a lot of experience in making professional games in a semi-pro fashion.
My later posts will address further points I've been stewing over for long periods of time.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2002-10-06 04:20am

It occurs to me that I made the link between Homeplanet and I Found Her seem more direct than it is. I'm not completely sure of the connection, honestly, except that at least one person is working on both. I really haven't payed that much attention. But that has little bearing on the rest of my post.

It's 4:20 am! Bedtime! Good thing tomorrow's Sunday, I can sleep in.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-06 11:59am

Akm72 wrote:As no-ones mentioned it yet I will; Damage modelling.
A lot of wargames make no effort to model damage in any realistic way.
ps. Did you see my offer on the previous page?

What about.......COMBAT MISSION Barbarossa to Berlin?

It does an excellent damage model....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-06 12:08pm

What I want is a game ENTIRELY from the Imperial POV, like TIE Fighter was.
No starting out as an Imp, like in Force Commander, and then Defecting...

Focus on cap-ship combat, not starfighter combat. We've got enough
starfighter shit in the X-Wing series to last us.....

But put the starfighters in as AI controlled entities that you can give orders
to....."Tie Squadron Gamma, attack that corvette, maximum speed, dagger formation"

I must say I like the concept of working your way up through the ranks in
the single player game.......

Bob The Great · Post by **Bob The Great** » 2002-10-06 01:12pm

What I want is a game ENTIRELY from the Imperial POV, like TIE Fighter was.
No starting out as an Imp, like in Force Commander, and then Defecting...

Yeah, me too, but there are always people out there that don't realize the inherant superiority of Imperial warships, and want to command Mon Cal cruisers and X-Wings instead of ISD's and TIE's. That's why I say to make it a decision point. That way, you could choose to remain loyal to Emperor or sell your soul to the rebellion. Plus, it adds another facet to the game, and allows for more variability when replaying it.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-10-06 01:16pm

Aaron Ash wrote:Fortunately as I said above the Lucasfil/Lucasarts lawyers should leave us alone because they have a policy of allowing anything so long as its free and no profit is made from it, as evidenced by the fan made films and the many many mods for other games that appear to have no problem from Lucas. It is however still a risk that they will just step in and put a stop to it, but it is a risk we can deal with and attempt to minimise.

They squashed a Monkey Island fan game once I can't see them allowing this to happen.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-06 02:16pm

Well because everything i would ever want in a game has alreeady been mentioned..... Aaron Ash and Dolman... We Worship you!

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-10-06 02:27pm

Bob The Great wrote:Yeah, me too, but there are always people out there that don't realize the inherant superiority of Imperial warships, and want to command Mon Cal cruisers and X-Wings instead of ISD's and TIE's. That's why I say to make it a decision point. That way, you could choose to remain loyal to Emperor or sell your soul to the rebellion. Plus, it adds another facet to the game, and allows for more variability when replaying it.

Having a defection point or several will also make for alternate endings!

Akm72 · Post by **Akm72** » 2002-10-07 08:10am

MKSheppard wrote:
Akm72 wrote:As no-ones mentioned it yet I will; Damage modelling.
A lot of wargames make no effort to model damage in any realistic way.
ps. Did you see my offer on the previous page?
What about.......COMBAT MISSION Barbarossa to Berlin?

It does an excellent damage model....

Combat Mission is precisely why I said 'a lot' and not 'all'.

ps. They have accepted my offer to help, based on this unfinished model

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-10-07 05:26pm

Maybe have a game where you play an Imperial, a storm trooper or elite shock troop or something. We have never seen a FPS through the eyes of the Imps

Bob The Great · Post by **Bob The Great** » 2002-10-07 07:18pm

[quote=NF_Utvol]Maybe have a game where you play an Imperial, a storm trooper or elite shock troop or something. We have never seen a FPS through the eyes of the Imps[/qoute]

Kind of like this one? Troopers

Granted it's a mod, not an original game, but it looks like it'll be good. And, we've never seen a competant SW fleet strategy game either.

Mr. Mister · Post by **Mr. Mister** » 2002-10-07 08:20pm

Wow, so many awesome ideas.

I really like the semi-linear idea. My thoughts regarding that, though, is that unless you die, no mission should be replayable. I mean, even at Endor or at Hoth (Yavin, I think, you wouldn't play in) you won't be in a position to affect the canonical outcome, so even if you lose your portion of the battle, that would be a non-ssue for the battle's outcome. I really think more games should take into account that sometimes, you lose. So if you come out of it alive, even if you "lost", deal. You could even make it so that excessive failure got you demoted, or transfered to a backwater system, or something. Plus, it forces your performance to affect the campaign.

For instance, suppose your mission is to command an Interdictor assigned to intercept a rebel convoy. If you succeed in decimating it, the rebel force is weaker in your next mission, because the local task force just didn't get that load of parts they needed for their X-Wings. On the other hand, if you bungle the mission, then your next mission, you're on routine patrol, spot a suspicious freighter, order it to stand down - and all of a sudden it turns into a rebel ambush with several light cap ships, because you didn't stop the freighters with the fuel they so desperately needed.

There's nothing I hate more than a single-player game with no real campaign to it. For me, a campaign means that if you lose a mission, that mission's done with - and your next one reflects it. Anybody remember Earthsiege? It was a Giant Robots game, like Mechwarrior and all that, but your available equipment was always dependent on your performance. For instance, there were missions where if you failed to protect a "prototype", then the game continued - only it was 4 or 5 extra missions before you got that weapon or 'mech. I like that sort of thing.

Also, I'm not sure how much your suboordinates should go with you - at least early in the game. That ought to be one of the things that goes with prestige. And maybe not even with rank. For instance, if you climb the ladder real quick, and end up an Admiral, but haven't really shown yourself to excell at anything, you might request one subordinate, with a lot of experience, and get an answer like, "Admiral Jimmy, Captain Bubba couldn't be assigned to you. He is currently commanding the Imperator-2 Puffball under Grand Admiral Thrawn." On the other hand, if you've built up a reputation, as, say, an expert at board-and-capture options with your little VSD, you might get, "Commodore Jimmy, message from sector command: Admiral Piett has assigned the Nebulon-B Elbow under Captain Bubba to our task group. He's a good tactitian, but he's mangled a few board-and-captures; you are expected to show him how it's done." Or, for instance, if your performance isn't what's required, you might get reassigned to another ship of the same class, but with a worse crew. Likewise, if you get a new ship (for instance, you are now the Captain of an Imperator-class), it might have a green crew. Or, maybe it's got a really experienced crew, but it's an older ship and some system just never works at 100%.

Bob The Great · Post by **Bob The Great** » 2002-10-07 08:54pm

Very sweet ideas, Mr. Mister. I completely agree that non-replayable missions would keep the game interesting. Maybe there could also be some missions where you absolutely must suceed, else Lord Vader will be very displeased. And we all know what happens to commanders who displease the Dark Lord (

"My Lord, I..*ghhkkk tthhkgkk*"). This would make certain critical missions unskippable, and let the storyline revolve around several known event outcomes. Certainly would make storyline coding easier too.

Accumulated resources on both sides are cool too. <-i.e. your example of failing to intercept supply convoys and then later having to face the ships they were supplying. Likewise the demotion thing, or having valuable ships reassigned elsewhere. I do think that no matter how bad you fail, you should always to involved in the main storyline in some way. Perhaps one way to do this would be to still have you participate in the same battles or missions, but under someone elses command. If you had screwed up bigtime earlier, you would be given a minor part of the battle, whereas if you perform well, you would be the one in command of the entire scenario.

I hadn't really thought about having your staff transfered out from your command before. It's an interesting idea though, especially the part about reputation and rank playing a part in it. Being able to throw your prestige around, and build up a kick-ass group of officers could open up a very interesting facet of gameplay. The crew experience thing and older or battle damaged ships not performing to thier full potential would be cool too.

Dolman · Post by **Dolman** » 2002-10-09 08:34am

Heres the latest tech report,

Some people were interested in what spec will be required to run this game, and as we want the game to look good when its finished it does have a relatively high system spec to support the graphical features, but the game it's self will still run on lower spec systems when finished.

Recommend system spec:
256Mb of RAM
2Ghz Processor
GeForce 3/4TI, or Radeon 8X00

Here is a more detailed break down of some of the features of the graphics and physics engine:

Graphics:
Cameras*
Lights*
Vertex Shaders *
Meshes - DONE
Skinned Meshes - DONE
Pixel Shaders *
Specular Highlights *
Dot Product 3 Bump mapping *
Explosions
Point Sprites (for particle effects)
Fog (for planet atmosphere and other stuff)
Stencil Buffer
Volumetric Shadows
Some cool light speed effect for “Hyper Drive”

Physics:
Newtonian Mechanics - NEALLY DONE
Gravitational Fields
Planets
Ship Engines *
Collision Detection
Relativistic Mass, (this will prevent you reaching light speed in normal space) *
Weapons
Shields

*These parts of the graphic engine are currently being worked on, but development of graphics features is being held up pending the release of DirectX 9, and me getting a new graphics card.

When the game gets to the stage of programing single player missions there will be a dynamic campaign and a random mission generator. The dynamic campaign, will as mentioned above, let you fail missions and move onto the next one (unless you are killed), effecting the story line and what the following missions are, giving you multiple endings to the game and good single player re-playerbility.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2002-10-11 04:49pm

Yay, my comp can run it with room to spare!

Okay, time to post some thoughts on physics. Most of it should be obvious, but it's sortof like venting, so bear with me.
The biggest part of physics is the movement of the ships. We all know that ships move using three engine systems: repulsorlifts, conventional drives, and hyperdrives.
Using just conventional drives (ref. Starshatter) it wouldn't be necessary for the gravitational field of a planet to be modeled beyond atmospheric fighter combat, because ships' computers and nav officers would automatically adjust the ships course etc. to deal with it. However, repulsorlift drives are quite capable of use as a low-power-consumption, fuelless drive within a certain range of a gravitational fied. In addition, some ships are massive enough for their own mass to induce a gravitational field which must be delt with (Death Star, anyone?). As such, you'll have to use up the processing power to deal with gravity of objects within a certain distance. Furthermore, the physics of repulsorlift drive makes it dependent on the masses it must deal with, so someone far smarter than myself is going to have to figure out how the things work.
Conventional drives are mostly simple, but it should be noted that turning and nonforward movement will be due in part to thrust vectoring from the main drives. I'm unsure whether it would be better to actually model thruster emplacements and thrust vectoring, or to simply take that into consideration when deciding the location of the turning axis of each craft. I'm glad that you noted the relativistic mass issue, that actually has to be delt with at these accellerations. The major problem with all of this is that no one has the damnedest clue what these ships mass. There's not much way to know. What with the possibility of ultradense fuel tanks and neutronium in the armor, ships may well mass quite a bit.
I'm confident that when the two drive types above above are accurately modeled, and the mass issue delt with, ships will handle in a way very similar to that seen in the movies.
More to be said, but I have to leave.

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A new Star Wars game?

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