Nova Cannon Funtime (40K/BFG)

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Sorry, I was wrong, the Vau Victus does not have a Nova Cannon, it was the Argus, which is a Battleship.
My bad.

Here's some quotes regarding it's firing tho:
Deep in the bowels of the Argus, the fifty-metre wide door of the nova cannon’s breech groaned shut as thousands of sweating naval ratings dragged the massive weapon’s recoil compensators into position. Hot steam and noise filled the long chamber, its cavernous structure fogged with the furnace heat of lifting mechanisms that hauled the enormous projectiles from the armoured magazines below.

The chamber ran almost the entire length of the ship and stank of grease, sweat and blood. A booming hymnal echoed from ancient brass speakers set into grilled alcoves in the wall accompanied by the droning chant of thousands of men. Senior gunner Mabon watched from his gantry above the firing chamber as a series of bells chimed and a row of lights lit up along a battered iron panel before him. He couldn’t hear the bells, his long service as a gunner in the Imperial Navy having deafened him decades ago.

The shell was loaded and he muttered the gunner’s prayer to the warhead as he squinted through a bronze optical attachment that lifted on groaning hinges from the panel. He clamped his augmetic monocle to the optical, lining up the thin crosshairs on the red triangle that represented his target. The target was closing on them so he didn’t have to make any adjustments for crosswise motion. It was a simple shot, one he could have easily made, even in the earliest days following his press-ganging on Carpathia. Satisfied that the shell would be on target, he lifted his head and ran his gaze across the chamber, checking that his gunnery crew gangs were clear of the greased rails that ran the length of the chamber and that each had their green flag raised to indicate that all the blast dampers had been closed. He reached up and took hold of the firing chain that hung above his station.

He grunted in satisfaction and pulled hard on the chain, shouting, ‘Spirits of war and fire, I invoke thee with the wrath of the Machine God. Go forth and purify!’
Steam hissed from juddering pipes and a high-pitched screech filled the weapon chamber as the gravometric impellers built up power in the breech. Mabon rushed to the edge of the gantry and gripped the iron railings. Seeing a weapon of such power discharge was a potent symbol of the might of the Imperial Navy and he never tired of the sight.

The screeching rose to an incredible volume, though Mabon was oblivious to it, until the nova cannon fired, and the enormous pressure wave slammed through the chamber. The weapon’s firing sent the three-hundred metre barrel hurtling back with the ferocious recoil. The air blazed with sparks and burning steam as the grease coating the rails vaporised in the heat of the recoil, the stench of scorched metal and propellant filling the chamber with choking fumes. Mabon roared in triumph, gagging on the stinking clouds of gas that boiled around him. Juddering vibrations attempted to topple him from the gantry, but he had long since grown used to them and easily kept his balance.

The smoke started to clear and his gunnery overseers began whipping their gangs into dragging the massive weapon back into its firing position once more. The armoured bays in the floor groaned open and the looped chains descended to be attached to a fresh shell. Mabon had drilled his gunnery teams without mercy and he prided himself that he could have the nova cannon ready to fire again within thirty minutes. This time would be no different.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Using HDS' fifty meter apature quote, I decided to do some low end calcs on the KE of a nova cannon warhead. If we assume that it's a fifty meter cube (I know that's a rather unlikely shape, but bear with me) made of solid iron. (Again rather unlikely, but I would imagine that the shell is much longer than its width.) Now, taking the quote about the speed things are fired from a bombardment cannon (Nearly 1/4 C) found in Excecution Hour and the quote in the BFG rulebook that states a nova cannon firing at 'close to' C, I will take 1/4 C as a low end velocity.

Volume of Shell : 125000 M^3
Density of Iorn : 7874 kg/m3
Mass of Shell : 984250000 Kg.
1/4 C : 75000000 M/s

KE of Shell : 2.768203125 e+24 J(I do love such useful ready reckoners.)

2.768203125e+24 joule = 661,616,425.669216 megaton [explosive]

This says a lot about the energy capabilities of Imperium Ships, specifically the Graviometric Impellers, and about their materials strength, given that they can withstand this recoil (Admittedly only along their forward axis) Unfortunately the weapon is a standoff blast, so this isn't the energy delivered to the target.

Now, to try and find an image or description of the shells in more deatil.

NB, I'm not going to bother trying to factor reletavistic mass increase here, lets leave it Newtonian for a while shall we?
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
2000AD
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6666
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:32pm
Location: Leeds, wishing i was still in Newcastle

Post by 2000AD »

Wouldn't a sphere be a more likely shape than a cube?
Ph34r teh eyebrow!!11!Writers Guild Sluggite Pawn of Chaos WYGIWYGAINGW so now i have to put ACPATHNTDWATGODW in my sig EBC-Honorary Geordie
Hammerman! Hammer!
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

2000AD wrote:Wouldn't a sphere be a more likely shape than a cube?
It would indeed, altough I imagine a cylinder would be more so...
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
2000AD
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6666
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:32pm
Location: Leeds, wishing i was still in Newcastle

Post by 2000AD »

probably.

Is 661,616,426 MT the same as 661,616 GT ? (rounded)
Ph34r teh eyebrow!!11!Writers Guild Sluggite Pawn of Chaos WYGIWYGAINGW so now i have to put ACPATHNTDWATGODW in my sig EBC-Honorary Geordie
Hammerman! Hammer!
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

2000AD wrote:probably.
Indeed, looking at the illustrations, I am not surprised to discover that the apature is circular.

Is 661,616,426 MT the same as 661,616 GT ? (rounded)
Yes. Or 662 TT.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

NecronLord wrote:This says a lot about the energy capabilities of Imperium Ships, specifically the Graviometric Impellers, and about their materials strength, given that they can withstand this recoil (Admittedly only along their forward axis) Unfortunately the weapon is a standoff blast, so this isn't the energy delivered to the target.
Nova cannons are pretty much guaranteed to be one-shot kill weapons aren't they tho?

And I dunno about this saying anything about their energy abilities since it uses gravity to move it forward, such systems are usually total foobar when it comes to things like real-life physics, mainly because it'd require DS level energy abilities to get just a few G's.

Also, how far away are the nova cannons deadly to ships?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
2000AD
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6666
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:32pm
Location: Leeds, wishing i was still in Newcastle

Post by 2000AD »

So am i right in assuming that's easily enough to take down a star destroyers shields?
Ph34r teh eyebrow!!11!Writers Guild Sluggite Pawn of Chaos WYGIWYGAINGW so now i have to put ACPATHNTDWATGODW in my sig EBC-Honorary Geordie
Hammerman! Hammer!
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

I think the solid iron thing won't work out, the missile's KE has nothing to do with the damage it deals out, I think the missile is light and it's mainly just there to contain and detonate the explosive warhead it carries, which is what deals out the real damage anyway.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

His Divine Shadow wrote: Nova cannons are pretty much guaranteed to be one-shot kill weapons aren't they tho?
The rules don't simulate what would happen if they actually Hit you, as it's immensely unlikely. The only way that KE could be used against a target would be planetery bombardment. Instead the warhead implodes (Don't ask me how it works) and creates a blast the size of a small planet, which is able to kill a light cruiser if you're near the centre, otherwise it's only able to destroy unsheilded escorts.

And I dunno about this saying anything about their energy abilities since it uses gravity to move it forward, such systems are usually total foobar when it comes to things like real-life physics, mainly because it'd require DS level energy abilities to get just a few G's.
You're right, we have no idea how Graviometric Impellers work, but I think we can assume they must take their energy from somewhere.

Also, how far away are the nova cannons deadly to ships?
The maximum range is 150 cm. By my reckoning that's somewhat under 150,000 Km, given that an earthlike planet is reccommended as 16-25. So that's a maximum range of less than half a light second, (After that I would assume the limitation is targeting) You also can't detonate it before 30Cm.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

2000AD wrote:So am i right in assuming that's easily enough to take down a star destroyers shields?
I dunno about that, I doubt the whole 2e24j figure anyway, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes, the nova cannon works on an explosive warhead to deliver damage omni-directionally, I don't see any reason for it to be solid, infact if anything it's probably gonna be as light as they can make it.

The rules for the nova-cannon are funky as well, it says it's only got a strenght rating of 1(560GT), but isn't it so that everything within it's explosive radius gets 3 damage(1.6tt)?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

His Divine Shadow wrote:I think the solid iron thing won't work out, the missile's KE has nothing to do with the damage it deals out, I think the missile is light and it's mainly just there to contain and detonate the explosive warhead it carries, which is what deals out the real damage anyway.
Indeed, However I imagine the volume would be far greater, given that the warhead is likely a cylinder. I also imagine the explosives would be fairly dense.
2000AD wrote:So am i right in assuming that's easily enough to take down a star destroyers shields?
No, they'd never hit it. A golden age of technology ship, with less chanting and more computers might be able to hit it, but an IoM one uses a guy sqinting through a cybernetic telescope to do it.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

which is able to kill a light cruiser if you're near the centre, otherwise it's only able to destroy unsheilded escorts
There should be some way of estimate the firepower of the warhead from this.
You're right, we have no idea how Graviometric Impellers work, but I think we can assume they must take their energy from somewhere.
But we have no idea how much energy it would be, the only workable solution that works with real physics is one that requires a DS level reactor.
The maximum range is 150 cm. By my reckoning that's somewhat under 150,000 Km, given that an earthlike planet is reccommended as 16-25. So that's a maximum range of less than half a light second, (After that I would assume the limitation is targeting) You also can't detonate it before 30Cm.
Is that the range of the explosion of the warhead? or the range of the cannon?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
2000AD wrote:So am i right in assuming that's easily enough to take down a star destroyers shields?
The rules for the nova-cannon are funky as well, it says it's only got a strenght rating of 1(560GT), but isn't it so that everything within it's explosive radius gets 3 damage(1.6tt)?
Everything in the centre of the blast takes D6 (a maximum of 3.2 TT) damage. Out on the periphery it is one automatic hit.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Micheal Ryans, Beta pilot
Jedi Knight
Posts: 919
Joined: 2002-12-17 01:07pm
Location: On the UNSC destroyer Resolute

Post by Micheal Ryans, Beta pilot »

His Divine Shadow wrote:Nova cannons are pretty much guaranteed to be one-shot kill weapons aren't they tho?
If you can hit something with it, that something is dead. The problem lies with hitting something of course.
Also, how far away are the nova cannons deadly to ships?
I'll check Shadow Point for that, see if it's stated.

The range is for the gun itself.

Necronlord: Nova cannon shells are given a velocity in Shadow Point of 'near lighspeed'. Hope that helps :wink: .
Titan Princeps of the Mecha Maniacs: Gloriam Imperator
"StarDestroyer.net: Even our idiots are smarter." - RedImperator
"A Terminator Space Marine. Also known as your worst nightmare." Stormbringer
"Know the ECM. Love the ECM. Cherish the ECM, for it jams thine enemys targeting."- Necronlord
HALOite, Robotech/Macross supporter, 40Ker, and part-time Warsie.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
There should be some way of estimate the firepower of the warhead from this.
Yes, see above for a quote based on the old 560.

But we have no idea how much energy it would be, the only workable solution that works with real physics is one that requires a DS level reactor.
I would do it under suspension of disbelief and say that they are 'graviometric' in some obscure way, and just assume they apply force.

Is that the range of the explosion of the warhead? or the range of the cannon?
That's the range of the canon. The blast is much smaller... Hang on while I try to find one.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

The nova cannon blast template is 5Cm across.

Would anyone mind if I split this, as it has nothing to do with the Tau or Geonosis? :wink:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

NecronLord wrote:Indeed, However I imagine the volume would be far greater, given that the warhead is likely a cylinder. I also imagine the explosives would be fairly dense.
I think the explosive is what'd take up the main mass of this.
Maybe it's a MA/AM reaction.

I dunno how much it'd require tho... given it's omnidirectional function it'd probably require the firepower of a hundred torpedoes, if it was as powerfull as say ~100 torps(a pie in the sky figure) it'd have a yield of 56TT, which I think would pretty much fry any ships too close to it when it detonates.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

His Divine Shadow wrote: I dunno how much it'd require tho... given it's omnidirectional function it'd probably require the firepower of a hundred torpedoes, if it was as powerfull as say ~100 torps(a pie in the sky figure) it'd have a yield of 56TT, which I think would pretty much fry any ships too close to it when it detonates.
I'd go with that as a 'ballpark' figure. It is apparently 'a force more potent than a dozen plasma bombs,' but given that we have no idea how powerful said plasma bombs are...
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Darth PhysBod
Youngling
Posts: 129
Joined: 2002-08-09 06:23am
Location: U.K

Post by Darth PhysBod »

In the 40K Rogue Trader rulebook there is a section on plasma bombs and the like (this when you could concoct ridculous things like a 9" radius Vortex missile). Apparently they can incinerate/vaporise a city block (paraphrasing until I get my copy back).

By the way could someone point me to this extract/quote that states a torpedo has a yield of 560GT
Master of the boffin, Formerly known as Evil S'tan

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Darth PhysBod wrote:In the 40K Rogue Trader rulebook there is a section on plasma bombs and the like (this when you could concoct ridculous things like a 9" radius Vortex missile). Apparently they can incinerate/vaporise a city block (paraphrasing until I get my copy back).
I'd be rather surprised if they couldn't. You sure this isn't a handheld version?
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Darth PhysBod
Youngling
Posts: 129
Joined: 2002-08-09 06:23am
Location: U.K

Post by Darth PhysBod »

NecronLord wrote:
Darth PhysBod wrote:In the 40K Rogue Trader rulebook there is a section on plasma bombs and the like (this when you could concoct ridculous things like a 9" radius Vortex missile). Apparently they can incinerate/vaporise a city block (paraphrasing until I get my copy back).
I'd be rather surprised if they couldn't. You sure this isn't a handheld version?
Positive, like I said I need my Rogue trader for the exact wording , but this is mentioned as being deliverable from space.

One thing I noticed about the Nova cannon quote:
The air blazed with sparks and burning steam as the grease coating the rails vaporised in the heat of the recoil, the stench of scorched metal and propellant filling the chamber with choking fumes. Mabon roared in triumph, gagging on the stinking clouds of gas that boiled around him.
They appear to be using a chemical propellent to launch this shell. It is highly dubious that they could achieve near c velocities with such a system, perhaps the BFG rulebook is refering to an energy based weapon?.
Master of the boffin, Formerly known as Evil S'tan

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Darth PhysBod wrote:They appear to be using a chemical propellent to launch this shell. It is highly dubious that they could achieve near c velocities with such a system, perhaps the BFG rulebook is refering to an energy based weapon?.
It must be a mistake. The BFG rulebook's fluff and this extract are both quite clear that it's launched using grviometric impellers. Presumably it's talking about lubricants, not propellants.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Darth PhysBod wrote:One thing I noticed about the Nova cannon quote:
The air blazed with sparks and burning steam as the grease coating the rails vaporised in the heat of the recoil, the stench of scorched metal and propellant filling the chamber with choking fumes. Mabon roared in triumph, gagging on the stinking clouds of gas that boiled around him.
They appear to be using a chemical propellent to launch this shell. It is highly dubious that they could achieve near c velocities with such a system, perhaps the BFG rulebook is refering to an energy based weapon?.
Earlier on in the same quote though:
Steam hissed from juddering pipes and a high-pitched screech filled the weapon chamber as the gravometric impellers built up power in the breech. Mabon rushed to the edge of the gantry and gripped the iron railings. Seeing a weapon of such power discharge was a potent symbol of the might of the Imperial Navy and he never tired of the sight.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
Darth PhysBod
Youngling
Posts: 129
Joined: 2002-08-09 06:23am
Location: U.K

Post by Darth PhysBod »

About the plasma bomb. On page 98 of Rogue Trader:
"A plasma Bomb is a large missile typically used by or against spacecraft. They are also used for planetary sieges. The missile energies at launch, converting into a mass of seething plasma - each missile becomes a ball of boiling energy sufficient to melt a city block".

The extract about the Nova canon at the start of the thread is bizarre. It mentions both "gravometric impellers" building power in the breach but then also mentions propellent "filling the chamber with choking fumes".

Can anyone point me to this apparent 560GT torpedo quote?
Master of the boffin, Formerly known as Evil S'tan

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Post Reply