Terminator 3 (sub in the t-1000)

[SylasGaunt]

The T-1000 was 3 feet from John within swiping distance, ,why would it ooze into the car which would have taken more time.

So it wouldn't get blown off the back of it maybe?

this would have never ever ever happen, the T-X is the dumbest shit terminator yet. The T-1000 would have looked like a cop coming out of the car, or the boyfriend, and the T-1000 always had its handgun, especially after that scene with the cop car and T-X in T3, ,it would have just gotten one of the cops guns. So the T-X comes out of the car, walks slowly towards kathrine, starts to transform back into the T-X default form, then the terminatrix starts to transform her arm into the plasma gun, just as arnold arrives and blasts here.

Yep always had a handgun.. like all those times it tried to stab or cut at the connors right? And did the feds it was with even have guns on them that we see?

Now lets rewind and think about the T-1000 and its characteristics,
It gets out of the car, with a handgun drawn(it even pulled its gun at the sound of alarm bells in T2)
It gets out of the car, either starts pumping off rounds right away at Kathrine (arnold is still on the other side of the cemetary, racing to the scene with his car)

Yeah the T-1000 certainly did that when it was chasing a 10 year old on foot. Or how about how it had that handgun right there and blazing away when it was chasing john in the truck?

Or as we've seen before, going by observed characteristics, the T-1000 starts running towards her pumping off rounds at 35mph.
Its no comparison.

Yep 35 MPH.. just like in the asylum you mean?

I believe there was a miscommunication, I thought that it was said that the T-X's flamethrower would melt the mimetic polyalloy.

Ah.

t-1000 arrives as a cop,

Assuming it runs into a cop anywhere along the way.

"are you kathrine brooster" "no" says the lady with the cat "do you know where she is" "over there" says the lady with the cat, t-1000 walks into the vet office and kathrine brooster comes out, sees the cop and goes "is there a problem officer" POW POW POW.

Assuming she doesn't get clear in the time it takes to pull the gun. The T-1000 is many things, but a quick-draw it ain't.

the T-X was just so stupid.

For being wrong? It runs across a female human at a vet's office in the middle of the night. Who do you think it should assume that is, especially without any photo ID that isn't years out of date?

As soon as the T-X saw the cop it should have taken that form so its 'friendly' and people would help it out,

It did just fine without asking for anyone's help. Remember unlike the T-1000 the T-X could access the computer nets and as we saw in the car chase it was already tapped into the police net. It didn't need to assume the cop's shape.

the T-1000 knew this, thats why it was asking the kids on the street in T2, which helped it find John.

Now kindly show me where the T-X needed to go around asking the locals where she was? She managed to locate her on the first try. Plus a cop's uniform isn't neccesary for you to ask a person if they've seen somebody. Not to mention the fact the T-X had multiple targets, one of which presented a fairly good chance of getting ahold of Kate again. Hell the only reason the T-1000 ever got another chance after the mental institute was because Sarah got it into her head to try and change the future. If not for that the T-1000 would most likely have never been able to locate the Connors at all.. and its cop facade could only hold up on the short term.

The T-X did go into a military base, nothing to say a T-1000 could not aswell.

Maybe, maybe not. Unlike the T-X the T-1000 doesn't have any hacking abilities.

As for the T-1000 'keeping the pressure on' it didn't have multiple targets to split it's attention among either. Brewster was just one target of several it had to eliminate.[/quote]

[SylasGaunt]

What sort of injury did it inflict on JOhn or Kathrine? zero.

Through numerous circumstantial happenings. Such as when it had Katherine in a position to kill her it needed to keep her alive because a higher priority target was in the area.

what did the T-1000 do?
slashed sarah
shot sarah
stabbed sarah

What injury did it manage to inflict on its actual target? Zero.

[Omega-13]

So it wouldn't get blown off the back of it maybe?

it was inches away from getting him, he was trapped in the back seat.

Yep always had a handgun.. like all those times it tried to stab or cut at the connors right? And did the feds it was with even have guns on them that we see?

Uh. do you even remember the movie? it shot at them the entire way down the hall, and threw the gun away when it ran out of ammo,

Yeah the T-1000 certainly did that when it was chasing a 10 year old on foot. Or how about how it had that handgun right there and blazing away when it was chasing john in the truck?

do you not remember the movie? I won't comment on this

Yep 35 MPH.. just like in the asylum you mean?

uh? I guess John's motorcycle was only going at 15 mph? uh huh.
The T-1000 was picking up speed, it got shot in the chest and torso with a shotgun and kept going forward, it was gaining speed, as you could tell if you watch the movie, and see its arm swinging faster and faster as it was firing at them.

Assuming it runs into a cop anywhere along the way.

we'll never know if it would choose a cop or not given the opportunity, although with programming based around stealth, ...well its impossible to tell, best to stay away from this .

Assuming she doesn't get clear in the time it takes to pull the gun. The T-1000 is many things, but a quick-draw it ain't.

Sure not as quick as Doc Holiday, but it always went for the pistol, coming right around the corner behind the ARcade or coming through the bars
Instead of standing there like a moron, or not firing until its too late as in the cemetary (didn't even get to fire) the Tx that is.

For being wrong? It runs across a female human at a vet's office in the middle of the night. Who do you think it should assume that is, especially without any photo ID that isn't years out of date?

Should have asked, incase there were more there, assumptions are bad, i'm surprised she even made one.

It did just fine without asking for anyone's help. Remember unlike the T-1000 the T-X could access the computer nets and as we saw in the car chase it was already tapped into the police net. It didn't need to assume the cop's shape.

while that is quite true, it is still better to look like the good guy, you never know when it might help you out.

Hell the only reason the T-1000 ever got another chance after the mental institute was because Sarah got it into her head to try and change the future. If not for that the T-1000 would most likely have never been able to locate the Connors at all.. and its cop facade could only hold up on the short term.

we will never know.

Maybe, maybe not. Unlike the T-X the T-1000 doesn't have any hacking abilities.

that is true, although much more advanced stealth abilities.

As for the T-1000 'keeping the pressure on' it didn't have multiple targets to split it's attention among either. Brewster was just one target of several it had to eliminate.

I just found her very slow in her actions, she never put the pressure on it seemed when she was going after John,
Just a general feeling I got

[Omega-13]

What sort of injury did it inflict on JOhn or Kathrine? zero.

Through numerous circumstantial happenings. Such as when it had Katherine in a position to kill her it needed to keep her alive because a higher priority target was in the area.

while I do agree there, the T-1000 would have had a spike through her chest or arm, wreching the information out,

What injury did it manage to inflict on its actual target? Zero.

Kicked the snot out of the T-800, beat up on Sara, and almost got John

a lot better than the T-X did

[Steven Snyder]

What injury did it manage to inflict on its actual target? Zero.

Kicked the snot out of the T-800, beat up on Sara, and almost got John

a lot better than the T-X did

Umm

Excuse me Omega, but did you actually watch the movie? No seriously, I am not kidding here. You actually think that the T-1000 did better than the T-X? LOL!

T-1000 Mission:
Primary Objective: Kill John Conner - FAILED

T-X Mission:
Primary Objective: Kill John Conner's Lieutenants - Partially Successful (3/4)
Secondary Objective: Kill Robert Brewster - Successful
Secondary Objective: Kill anyone who could stop Judgement Day - Successful
Tertiary Objective: Kill John Conner - FAILED


Okay now those are the numbers. The T-1000 had but one objective and utterly failed to achieve it, the T-X had several objectives and did find a lot of success.


As far as you claiming that poly-mimetic alloy is not nanobots, please explain how they could have been used to infect other machines? You can't. The Nanobot Hypothesis is the best one we have, if you have a better one then please post it.

And on the topic of nanobots, I think Mr. Wong himself has already sounded off on that topic. Machines that small would be very vulnerable to heat, it would easily destroy them. So the Nanobot hypothesis is validated by the movies when we see the mimetic-polyalloy being destroyed by high temperatures twice.

Remember, the T-800 survived a fuel truck explosion and the subsequent inceneration. The same cannot be said for the poly-mimetic side of the T-X during the heliocopter crash.

And as for the T-1000 being able to quickly disable the T-850. I have already posted, and you ignored, the serious beating the T-X gave the T- 850, on both occasions. Remember, the T-X is the Anti-Terminator Terminator, the same is not true of the T-1000.

[Omega-13]

T-X Mission:
Primary Objective: Kill John Conner's Lieutenants - Partially Successful (3/4)
Secondary Objective: Kill Robert Brewster - Successful
Secondary Objective: Kill anyone who could stop Judgement Day - Successful
Tertiary Objective: Kill John Conner - FAILED

it failed in its missions where the T-850 was protecting,

As far as you claiming that poly-mimetic alloy is not nanobots, please explain how they could have been used to infect other machines? You can't. The Nanobot Hypothesis is the best one we have, if you have a better one then please post it.

am i watching the movie?? When is the last time you saw it? download it please. the polymimetic alloy is not used to take over other machines, it uses its nanotransjectors (those assimilation tubules) if you will. Arnold talks about both of those seperately. It is never mentioned once that the polymimetic alloy is nano tech, in EITHER movie.

And on the topic of nanobots, I think Mr. Wong himself has already sounded off on that topic. Machines that small would be very vulnerable to heat, it would easily destroy them. So the Nanobot hypothesis is validated by the movies when we see the mimetic-polyalloy being destroyed by high temperatures twice.

the nanobots weren't destroyed when the truck blew up in T2, and they weren't destroyed in T3, the T-X wasn't even laying IN THE FIRE!
you think john and kathrine could stand 15 feet away from 2000C flames? c'mon please watch it again.

Remember, the T-800 survived a fuel truck explosion and the subsequent inceneration. The same cannot be said for the poly-mimetic side of the T-X during the heliocopter crash.

already answered

And as for the T-1000 being able to quickly disable the T-850. I have already posted, and you ignored, the serious beating the T-X gave the T- 850, on both occasions. Remember, the T-X is the Anti-Terminator Terminator, the same is not true of the T-1000.

YES! thats my entire point, she relies so much on her powerful plasma weapon that a quick shot submachine gun would do the trick. I'm not saying the T-1000 would kill the T-X , i'm saying the T-1000 is better for killing humans, i've said this all along. And to mention the fight scene between the T-X and the T-850 was very long, and very drawn out, he gave her a good run for her money, in which the t-1000 just man handled arnold

[The Prime Necromancer]

I'm not going to claim that the T-1000 would necessarily do better, but I am going to state a few points:

1. The heat energy released by the T-X plasma cannon. When she uses it against the T-850, it doesn't even *burn his shirt. The two times that she fires it and causes explosions, one is a hit on truck full of tanks of flammable gas, and the other is the engine and fuel tank of a truck. It seems to deliver far more purely kinetic energy, since it throws him back a good distance. I question just how much it will damage the T-1000.

2. Frankly, I couldn't care less about what the comic says, if it is contradicted by what we see in the movie. In the movie, the T-X takes a good number of seconds to prepare her cannon to use it. Against a nearby opponent that attempted to rush her, she wouldn't have the time. I've already voiced my opinion about the damage the plasma cannon puts out. Finally, the T-1002 in that comic stupidly poured itself past her to the otherside in an attempt to get behind her, leaving itself open to her weapon. Such a stupid decision on the part of the T-1000 would be necessary for her to use such a weapon in close-quarters against an opponent with similar strength.

3. The helicopter explosion. If the T-1000 would have been "turned into a puddle" at that point, it should have been so in T2 after the truck explosion, or after the helicopter crash. It wasn't. This means either that the poly-alloy the T-X used was far less durable, or it means that the alloy was blown off in the crash, and rather than take the time to reform it, it moved toward its target, which was nearby. Keep in mind, I don't even remember seeing a particularly big fire or explosion, nor do I remember seeing the alloy "melting off".

[Omega-13]

3. The helicopter explosion. If the T-1000 would have been "turned into a puddle" at that point, it should have been so in T2 after the truck explosion, or after the helicopter crash. It wasn't. This means either that the poly-alloy the T-X used was far less durable, or it means that the alloy was blown off in the crash, and rather than take the time to reform it, it moved toward its target, which was nearby. Keep in mind, I don't even remember seeing a particularly big fire or explosion, nor do I remember seeing the alloy "melting off".

The fire that was near the T-X was no larger than something you'd see by a few campers and marshmellows, it was rediculous, she wasn't even IN the fire, she was several feet from a small one, heh
The claim is rediculous, for anyone who can download the movie and watch it

[Illuminatus Primus]

She was submerged in burning fuel for awhile before it burned off and she pulled herself from the wreckage.

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

[The Prime Necromancer]

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

No, since the T-1000 has already been shown to survive far greater temperatures with no damage (the truck explosion, and helicopter crash). Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the T-X polyalloy was less durable. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since the T-1000 was made in a universe where Skynet had a jumpstart from the chip and the arm.

[Omega-13]

She was submerged in burning fuel for awhile before it burned off and she pulled herself from the wreckage.

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

except we saw non of this
you mean the super hot jetfuel that made arnolds leather jacket start smoking or catch on fire? oh no, it didn't do that

you mean the super hot jetfuel that burned off in only 15 seconds?
the superhot jetfule that john and kathrine were standing 15 feet from?
right, keep digging

[Omega-13]

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

No, since the T-1000 has already been shown to survive far greater temperatures with no damage (the truck explosion, and helicopter crash). Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the T-X polyalloy was less durable. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since the T-1000 was made in a universe where Skynet had a jumpstart from the chip and the arm.

If we really want to start attacking the polymimetic alloy, we can also say it looked a lot different in both movies

T2, it was a lot more shiney and silver
in T3, it was darker

[Howedar]

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

No, since the T-1000 has already been shown to survive far greater temperatures with no damage (the truck explosion, and helicopter crash). Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the T-X polyalloy was less durable. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since the T-1000 was made in a universe where Skynet had a jumpstart from the chip and the arm.

However, we also know that the T-X came from an era where the T-800 equivilent was more powerful and durable.

If anything, the T-X should have better mimetic polyalloy.

[Omega-13]

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

No, since the T-1000 has already been shown to survive far greater temperatures with no damage (the truck explosion, and helicopter crash). Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the T-X polyalloy was less durable. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since the T-1000 was made in a universe where Skynet had a jumpstart from the chip and the arm.

However, we also know that the T-X came from an era where the T-800 equivilent was more powerful and durable.

If anything, the T-X should have better mimetic polyalloy.

we can't really even start guessing on this,
all we know is that in T2, the polymimetic alloy took a beating and kept on ticking

[Omega-13]

I just thought of something, maybe the T-X was damaged when the helicopter turned her into a pancake, ,and she could no longer control the polymimetic alloy properly, you could see at the end when arnold was pulling her towards him, it was dropping off her face,

[SylasGaunt]

1. The heat energy released by the T-X plasma cannon. When she uses it against the T-850, it doesn't even *burn his shirt. The two times that she fires it and causes explosions, one is a hit on truck full of tanks of flammable gas, and the other is the engine and fuel tank of a truck. It seems to deliver far more purely kinetic energy, since it throws him back a good distance. I question just how much it will damage the T-1000.

Already answered in the comics in the official T3 magazine. The T-1000 can take two hits at best.

2. Frankly, I couldn't care less about what the comic says, if it is contradicted by what we see in the movie.

Kindly point to where the T-1000 is hit with a plasma weapon anywhere in the movie.

In the movie, the T-X takes a good number of seconds to prepare her cannon to use it. Against a nearby opponent that attempted to rush her, she wouldn't have the time. I've already voiced my opinion about the damage the plasma cannon puts out. Finally, the T-1002 in that comic stupidly poured itself past her to the otherside in an attempt to get behind her, leaving itself open to her weapon. Such a stupid decision on the part of the T-1000 would be necessary for her to use such a weapon in close-quarters against an opponent with similar strength.

The T-1002 couldn't hit her with its blades no matter what it tried, and it certainly tried a lot harder than the T-1000 ever did.

3. The helicopter explosion. If the T-1000 would have been "turned into a puddle" at that point, it should have been so in T2 after the truck explosion, or after the helicopter crash. It wasn't.

Then one might ask why it took so damn long to emerge from the gasoline fire.

[SylasGaunt]

while I do agree there, the T-1000 would have had a spike through her chest or arm, wreching the information out,

The difference being simple intimidation could work on someone like Katherine without having to risk her fainting or going into shock from injuries. No terminator's going to manage to intimidate any information out of Sarah Connor.

Kicked the snot out of the T-800, beat up on Sara, and almost got John

a lot better than the T-X did

You realize you didn't respond at all to the point I made which was that as you were so quick to point out for the T-X the T-1000 never managed to so much as touch John. The closest it came was when it imitated Sarah.

By comparison the T-X was actually able to accomplish most of its mission objectives compared to the T-1000 which didn't manage to accomplish any.

Further, unlike the T-1000 the T-X was actually able to at least lay a hand on its targets (indirectly in the case of John) and without the T-850 John and Kate had absolutely no chance of escape at Crystal Peak. If it hadn't crashed the helicopter in there that would have been it, whereas Sarah was 1 shotgun shell away from finishing off the T-1000 herself despite her injuries.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And besides, the less she was on fire, the worse it is for your case, because that means mimetic polyalloy is easier to melt.

No, since the T-1000 has already been shown to survive far greater temperatures with no damage (the truck explosion, and helicopter crash). Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the T-X polyalloy was less durable. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since the T-1000 was made in a universe where Skynet had a jumpstart from the chip and the arm.

If we really want to start attacking the polymimetic alloy, we can also say it looked a lot different in both movies

T2, it was a lot more shiney and silver
in T3, it was darker

Ooooooooooooooh it was shiney and silver. Therefore it has order of magnitude higher melting temperature.

[Omega-13]

The difference being simple intimidation could work on someone like Katherine without having to risk her fainting or going into shock from injuries. No terminator's going to manage to intimidate any information out of Sarah Connor.

no thats true, but the T-1000 didn't know the personality of Sarah Connor, it just did like it was programmed and put a spike right through her,

by comparison the T-X was actually able to accomplish most of its mission objectives compared to the T-1000 which didn't manage to accomplish any.

The T-X didn't accomplish any of its goals that the T-850 was defending, so same different,

Further, unlike the T-1000 the T-X was actually able to at least lay a hand on its targets (indirectly in the case of John) and without the T-850 John and Kate had absolutely no chance of escape at Crystal Peak. If it hadn't crashed the helicopter in there that would have been it, whereas Sarah was 1 shotgun shell away from finishing off the T-1000 herself despite her injuries.

A general reaction to this paragraph, instead of isolating certain sentences
I was quick to jump that the T-X didn't do as well, and you say here that without the T-850 john would have been toast at Crystal peaks, yes I agree fully, but lets think about T2.

John gets killed at Arcade
movie is over in 5 minutes

Its obvious without the friendly terminators, in both movies, it would have been over for our hero's.

[Omega-13]

Ooooooooooooooh it was shiney and silver. Therefore it has order of magnitude higher melting temperature.

you missed the point,
you are saying it melted in jet fuel
except two problems
1. the T-X wasn't in jetfuel
2. the 'hot jetfuel' wasn't enough to melt a leather jacket or give any burns to our human hero's....

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me,
The T-1000 also was in burning fuel, surrounded by fire and fuel, and it walked out after reforming. But now after 15 seconds of magic fuel, the polymimetic alloy is destroyed,
its stored internally (according to you) and even then, she can't control it properly, as it falls off like glass out of a water, when she is pulled under the door

it seems that she is unable to control the alloy after the helicopter crash, she was too heavily damanged, the only explanation to fit everything

[SylasGaunt]

no thats true, but the T-1000 didn't know the personality of Sarah Connor, it just did like it was programmed and put a spike right through her,

Which would have really screwed its plans up if she wasn't tough enough to stay concious through the pain of that.

The T-X didn't accomplish any of its goals that the T-850 was defending, so same different,

Even with the T-850 defending it still came far closer to killing its actual targets than the T-1000 did.

John gets killed at Arcade
movie is over in 5 minutes

Its obvious without the friendly terminators, in both movies, it would have been over for our hero's.

Before they knew what they were up against. However unlike the T-1000 at no point did the humans actually come anywhere close to killing the T-X on their own. Again, if Sarah had possessed one extra shotgun shell she would have offed the T-1000 whereas John and Kate couldn't even scratch the T-X.

There's also the matter of targets to consider:

T-1000-
10 year old boy.

T-X-
Adult with weapons training.

[Illuminatus Primus]

you are saying it melted in jet fuel
except two problems
1. the T-X wasn't in jetfuel
2. the 'hot jetfuel' wasn't enough to melt a leather jacket or give any burns to our human hero's....

So the mimetic polyalloy is piss weak and absorbs heat like you'd expect from a colony of nanomachines. Your point being?

The mimetic polyalloy skin was destroyed in that fire. The end. That only establishes a lower limit.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me,
The T-1000 also was in burning fuel, surrounded by fire and fuel, and it walked out after reforming. But now after 15 seconds of magic fuel, the polymimetic alloy is destroyed,

I suppose an idiot like you doesn't know the helicopters don't run off the fuel of a trucks.

its stored internally (according to you) and even then, she can't control it properly, as it falls off like glass out of a water, when she is pulled under the door

Uh, the T-X was fucking damaged to being cut-in-half and obviously suffered enough full-body damage to destroy its primary coating of mimetic polyalloy, so I'd expect it to not be able to maintain all its fucking functions perfectly. I suppose you neglected to notice it also couldn't activate any of its weapons against John or Kathryn. Obviously its functions were quite impaired.

it seems that she is unable to control the alloy after the helicopter crash, she was too heavily damanged, the only explanation to fit everything

No shit, but either the polyalloy was destroyed in the fire/crash or vanished without a mechanism. Guess which?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Mimetic polyalloy makes no sense other than as a colony of nanomachines.

I suppose you believe in "programmable molecules."

[Omega-13]

Which would have really screwed its plans up if she wasn't tough enough to stay concious through the pain of that.

the T-1000 didn't get anything from Sarah anyway, so it didn't make a difference, except to put her through shit. She was also about 2 miliseconds from death before the T-1000 got hit from behind.

Even with the T-850 defending it still came far closer to killing its actual targets than the T-1000 did.

er? How do you figure that, it came close once, and that was in the particle accelerator, where our human hero's stopped the T-X.

The T-1000 was slicing and dicing the back of the car, until it got blown off
the T-1000 shot sarah in the leg, sliced her back, put a hole through her arm. Was about 3 feet behind John on the motorcycle, AFTER it went off the bridge in the truck, it was unrelenting,
the T-X was a pussycat.

Before they knew what they were up against. However unlike the T-1000 at no point did the humans actually come anywhere close to killing the T-X on their own. Again, if Sarah had possessed one extra shotgun shell she would have offed the T-1000 whereas John and Kate couldn't even scratch the T-X.

The T-X was fucked 3 ways from sunday on the particle accelerator, for all we know, only a few more seconds could have totally shut her down, massive magnetic fields aren't great for anything.
As for the shotgun shell, the T-1000 was damaged from the nitrogen, and it was 5 feet from john about to take his head off, if Sarah didn't show up from behind.

There's also the matter of targets to consider:

T-1000-
10 year old boy.

T-X-
Adult with weapons training.

its not the targets, its who's helping defend the targets

John and Kristine were cannon fodder for the most part, Sarah connor kicked some friggin ass, her and arnold still got their asses kicked from the T-1000.

[Omega-13]

Mimetic polyalloy makes no sense other than as a colony of nanomachines.

I suppose you believe in "programmable molecules."

oh yea great, laugh it up

I suppose you believe in Hypermatter? rofl rofl rofl

don't be a moron, it was never even stated, or suggested that polymimetic alloy was nanocontrolled,
not even SUGGESTED or hinted, they keep saying ALLOY each time, in each movie,
and arnold specifically said nano transjectors to control machines,
he was talking about the T-X, ,said alloy, ,then specifically said nanobots when talking about how it controls machine