Sacked troops, tribes threaten U.S. with war
`I will turn my 6 daughters into bombs'
Bremer: `We will stay until job is done'
ANDREW MARSHALL
REUTERS NEWS AGENCY
BAGHDAD—Thousands of sacked Iraqi soldiers swarmed angrily around U.S. headquarters in Baghdad yesterday, as squabbling tribal leaders told the Americans they could face war if they did not leave soon.
"The entire Iraqi people is a time bomb that will blow up in the Americans' face if they don't end their occupation," tribal chief Riyadh al-Asadi said after meeting a U.S. official for talks on the future of Iraq after Saddam Hussein.
"The Iraqi people did not fight the Americans during the war, only Saddam's people did," al-Asadi said. "But if the people decide to fight them now, they are in big trouble."
As tribal leaders met representatives of the U.S-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), more than 3,000 sacked troops marched on the authority's headquarters in a former presidential palace, vowing violence unless they received compensation. Many said they wanted U.S. and British forces to leave Iraq.
"All of us will become suicide bombers," said former officer Khairi Jassim. "I will turn my six daughters into bombs to kill the Americans."
Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator for Iraq, dissolved Saddam's armed forces, several security bodies and the defence and information ministries last month, firing 400,000 people. Many protesters said they could no longer feed their families.
The protesters dispersed after they were promised talks today to try to resolve their grievances. Bremer told a news conference he sympathized with their plight and planned job creation schemes, but would not be swayed by threats.
"We're not going to be blackmailed into producing (job) programs because of threats of terrorism," he said, adding the demonstration marked the first time in decades that people had dared to protest outside the presidential palace.
Responding to the mounting calls to leave, Bremer said: "We will stay until the job is done and not a day longer."
The new United Nations special representative for Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello, arrived in Baghdad to beef up the U.N. role in rebuilding Iraq.
"We have a huge task ahead," he told reporters, saying the world body would be "an independent partner of the Iraqi people first and foremost, but partner of the authority as well."
U.S. officials announced over the weekend that the Iraqi interim administration that will help guide the country until a constitution is approved and democratic elections held would be appointed by the CPA. Previously, it had been expected a national conference of Iraqis would select the members of the administration. Bremer said the process of setting up an Iraqi interim administration would take five to six weeks.
In other developments yesterday:
Food rations were distributed for the first time since the war, but many Iraqis complained the ration packs did not contain as much as they had hoped for.
NATO countries agreed to provide support in five areas from intelligence to logistics for the Polish-led stabilization force in Iraq, taking the alliance into the furthest-flung operation of its 54-year history. NATO's flag will not fly in Iraq.
Agreeing in part with the United States, U.N. weapons inspectors reported Iraq had not accounted for stocks of anthrax and had failed to declare what appeared to be mobile biological arms labs.
Two U.S. soldiers were wounded in an ambush outside a Baghdad mosque and two Iraqi bystanders were killed in the ensuing gun battle. The ambush took place in the Azamiyah neighbourhood, an area where support for Saddam remains high and many residents bristle at the U.S. presence.
U.S. commanders are calling on America's battle-hardened 3rd Infantry Division, which led the assault on Baghdad, to put down attacks by apparent loyalists of Saddam's fallen regime in a troubled area around Fallujah west of the capital.
With a flourish, the British military opened the first functioning prison in postwar southern Iraq, a new high-security home for people picked up by U.S.-led occupation forces on suspicion they killed, raped or robbed in the chaotic wake of the war.
So America has created 400,000 who now can not feed their families, and are pissed at the US.
whine whine whine. when they complain we're staying too long, we leave - when we leave, they complain we're leaving a mess.
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6 DOOMerWoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
Besides, there was no Saddam's government left to pay those soldiers so there's really no difference between them staying and being taken off, except that if they had stayed, they'd still have a status as an armed force with weapons.
I can never tell if Ted is a left winger, right winger, or simply an idiot.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Enforcer Talen wrote:whine whine whine. when they complain we're staying too long, we leave - when we leave, they complain we're leaving a mess.
You have left a mess.
400,000 of the Iraq government is gone, and is threatening terrorism against the US.
of course we have. becuase we havent stayed around long enough.
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6 DOOMerWoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
Ted wrote:So America has created 400,000 who now can not feed their families, and are pissed at the US.
Do you actually believe that most Iraqi regulars were paid enough to feed a family back when they were working? They were almost all conscripts who couldn't feed their families back when they did have a job.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Ted, having four hundred thousand armed partisans loyal mostly to their own tribal interests and religious fanaticism in a region temporary lacking in a strong, secular, centralized government is, in case you haven't grasped this, A Very Bad Idea.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
Lonestar wrote:I can never tell if Ted is a left winger, right winger, or simply an idiot.
Let him be.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
Lonestar wrote:I can never tell if Ted is a left winger, right winger, or simply an idiot.
Let him be.
Can't. I'm one of those guys who finds dead clowns in the woods and pokes at them with sticks.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Lonestar wrote:I can never tell if Ted is a left winger, right winger, or simply an idiot.
Let him be.
Can't. I'm one of those guys who finds dead clowns in the woods and pokes at them with sticks.
where do you find dead clowns?
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6 DOOMerWoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
Eliminating the Iraqi conscript army is the first, far more effective step towards building a much better Iraqi volunteer-based army. In the meantime we'll probably be giving these people the food they need to eat--in fact, we probably already were. It wasn't like these troops were collected in barracks, receiving pay and a regular mess from the new regime (us). They were already dispersed through the country, having fled their regiments, and were not receiving either their pay or any form of support. Now a few of them are making big threats trying to intimidate us into giving them money. Out of 400,000 people, do really expect that some wouldn't? Moreover, out of the ones who have said such things, how many of those do you think are serious? This is incredibly not a big deal, which like so many things of similiar non-import has been distorted into one by the news.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
umm just to note, the article says that the US will not be threatened by the potential of "terrorist acts", i didnt see any mention of terrorist acts among the iraqis threatening violence, suicide bombing when directed at a government or military is no more terrorism than bombing a missile silo, it is unconventional warfare, it it is not terrorism, terrorism is targeted at the civilians who are not connected to the military in any direct way (a defence contractor's buidings are fair game, but say a washer manufacturer who happens to sell to the government among others is not).
Festina Lente
My shoes are too tight and I've forgotten how to dance
It's just them trying to save face, status is VERY important in Arab society. They're all blowing steam so that it looks like they were forced from their jobs instead of quitting. I say let em be.
Dark Heresy: Dance Macabre - Imperial Psyker Magnus Arterra
BoTM
Proud Decepticon
Post 666 Made on Fri Jul 04, 2003 @ 12:48 pm
Post 1337 made on Fri Aug 22, 2003 @ 9:18 am
Post 1492 Made on Fri Aug 29, 2003 @ 5:16 pm
NapoleonGH wrote:umm just to note, the article says that the US will not be threatened by the potential of "terrorist acts", i didnt see any mention of terrorist acts among the iraqis threatening violence, suicide bombing when directed at a government or military is no more terrorism than bombing a missile silo, it is unconventional warfare, it it is not terrorism, terrorism is targeted at the civilians who are not connected to the military in any direct way (a defence contractor's buidings are fair game, but say a washer manufacturer who happens to sell to the government among others is not).
Terrorism is just a PC name for unconventional warfare no matter what the target is, and indeed can be considered irrelevant as terminology, so who cares what they called it? People threatened to engage in guerrilla warfare against the US forces and the US forces said they wouldn't be threatened. Wow. Who's surprised by this? Nobody.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
Vympel wrote:Well, they need some officers- willing to learn the Western way of war, that is.
Interestingly the Iraqi Army actually used largely British doctrine before the Iran Iraq war and continued to use its own version though the Gulf War. Though Soviet tactics did seep in.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Vympel wrote:Well, they need some officers- willing to learn the Western way of war, that is.
Interestingly the Iraqi Army actually used largely British doctrine before the Iran Iraq war and continued to use its own version though the Gulf War. Though Soviet tactics did seep in.
Originally, all the officers in the Iraqi army were British.
Wicked Pilot wrote:
[Ted] There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry: Lone Star! [/Ted]
You're Goddamned right.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Terrorism is not guerilla warfare.
guerilla warfare is fighting using unconventional means. This could be the U.S. aiming for officers during the revolution, or the homemade mines and guns of vietnam.
Terrorism is the targeting of facilities expresselly for the purpose of causing fear in the people. Dresden and Tokyo were terrorism. They were however highly conventional attacks. One is not the other.
Modern terrorism however has moved from being conventional, somewhat immoral attacks on population centers during war time, to being a political tool in an attempt to get attention to some cause. The targets are almost always unimportant, heavily occupied locations and the intent is fear for the sake of fear.
Recap guerilla warfare and terrorism are incredible different. While modern terrorism in mostly conducted like guerilla strikes, terrorism can also be performed entirely by conventional means.
sorry bout the disorder, this was a sort of think and type style rant.
A teenage girl is just a teenage boy who can get laid.
-GTO
We're not just doing this for money; we're doing this for a shitload of money!
