Dishonest Warsie Claims

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Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2002-07-03 11:53pm

In the spirit of citing dishonest trekkie claims I thought it would be interesting to hear dishonest claims from warsies...

:D :roll:

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Stark » 2002-07-03 11:56pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:In the spirit of citing dishonest trekkie claims I thought it would be interesting to hear dishonest claims from warsies...

:D :roll:


heheh :)

Thought I'd start it off by pointing out that X-wings CAN'T take on ISDs, their shields don't last against half a second of fire from TIES, and R2 units aren't the only way to repair a starfighter - most people claim that if a ship doesn't have an R2 dome, it can't self-repair.

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Postby Durandal » 2002-07-04 12:08am

Here's a dishonest claim:

The Federation would kick the Empire's ass.
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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Rob Wilson » 2002-07-04 12:10am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:In the spirit of citing dishonest trekkie claims I thought it would be interesting to hear dishonest claims from warsies...

:D :roll:


I think you'll find Durandal already did the Troll thread elsewhere.
:P

So what are you after here specifically? Is it nonsense that the more Stupid of the SW fanbase have produced as arguments - the Wars version of the "Outrageous Okana" blatherings. Hell I don't think there's room for all of Transcends posts on this board. :)

Any examples from yourself as to what you mean, to start the ball rolling.

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Postby Guest » 2002-07-04 12:10am

Durandal wrote:Here's a dishonest claim:

The Federation would kick the Empire's ass.


Off topic for this thread. :!:

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2002-07-04 12:52am

I think you'll find Durandal already did the Troll thread elsewhere.
:P

So what are you after here specifically? Is it nonsense that the more Stupid of the SW fanbase have produced as arguments - the Wars version of the "Outrageous Okana" blatherings. Hell I don't think there's room for all of Transcends posts on this board. :)

Any examples from yourself as to what you mean, to start the ball rolling.


I'm after nonsesnse that the more stupid of the SW fanbase have produced as arguments, yes you hit it on the nail the wars version of the Outrageous Okana blatherings.

BTW I may have misunderstood but did you just call me a troll?

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Guest » 2002-07-04 01:05am

Stark wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:In the spirit of citing dishonest trekkie claims I thought it would be interesting to hear dishonest claims from warsies...

:D :roll:


heheh :)

Thought I'd start it off by pointing out that X-wings CAN'T take on ISDs, their shields don't last against half a second of fire from TIES, and R2 units aren't the only way to repair a starfighter - most people claim that if a ship doesn't have an R2 dome, it can't self-repair.


Yes, they can take on ISDs, in numbers.

Get a couple squadrons together (or even one), and fire off proton torpedoes. Particle shields will go down on the first or second volley. Target bridge and then individual gun turrets.

Oh, and I've got a buttload of evidence behind me :D.

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Stark » 2002-07-04 01:10am

Anonymous wrote:Yes, they can take on ISDs, in numbers.

Get a couple squadrons together (or even one), and fire off proton torpedoes. Particle shields will go down on the first or second volley. Target bridge and then individual gun turrets.

Oh, and I've got a buttload of evidence behind me :D.


I'd love to see it, so long as it isn't EU. In ROTJ fighters are totally useless against shielded starships. ProTorps barely dented the surface of the Death Star. No canon evidence for X-wings with more than one set of torps.
I agree that a concentrated attack on once part of the shield by lots of warheads may have some effect, but in SW fighters just aren't capital ship-killers.

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Postby Howedar » 2002-07-04 01:12am

"At that close range we won't last long against those Star Destroyers!"
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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Rob Wilson » 2002-07-04 01:21am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
I think you'll find Durandal already did the Troll thread elsewhere.
:P

So what are you after here specifically? Is it nonsense that the more Stupid of the SW fanbase have produced as arguments - the Wars version of the "Outrageous Okana" blatherings. Hell I don't think there's room for all of Transcends posts on this board. :)

Any examples from yourself as to what you mean, to start the ball rolling.


I'm after nonsesnse that the more stupid of the SW fanbase have produced as arguments, yes you hit it on the nail the wars version of the Outrageous Okana blatherings.

BTW I may have misunderstood but did you just call me a troll?


No I implied the post was a troll as a joke. Dear god man, did you have your sense of hunour surgically removed or something.

Now again, do you have any examples of your own? After all the "outrageous Okana" is so well known, what would be it's Warsie counterpart? And Doomriser was able to supply a small montian of quotes in the Dishonest Trekkie thread, so surely if it's so widespread among Warsies as well, you can easily do the same... right?

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2002-07-04 01:33am

Rob Wilson wrote: No I implied the post was a troll as a joke. Dear god man, did you have your sense of hunour surgically removed or something.

Now again, do you have any examples of your own? After all the "outrageous Okana" is so well known, what would be it's Warsie counterpart? And Doomriser was able to supply a small montian of quotes in the Dishonest Trekkie thread, so surely if it's so widespread among Warsies as well, you can easily do the same... right?


Actually I wasn't sure what you were refering to. It's not that I don't find it funny but I wanted to be sure.....moving on now.

UGH! This thread is meant as a joke! However, if anyone has heard any dishonest warsie claims I was interested in hearing it.

For example "One TIE fighter is enough to wipe out all of Starfleet"

I am not trying to claim that warsie dishonesty is just as widespread or anything like that, how did you come to this conclusion? Why can't you just participate in the thread or stay out if you don't have anything to offer it?? No offense, but you seem to be offended by this thread.

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Postby Doomriser » 2002-07-04 01:38am

A TIE Fighter wouldn't be able to wipe out all of Starfleet. It doesn't have a hyperdrive.

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Postby Howedar » 2002-07-04 01:45am

Well it could, it would just take a really, really long time.

:D
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Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2002-07-04 01:52am

Howedar wrote:Well it could, it would just take a really, really long time.

:D


:roll:

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Alyeska » 2002-07-04 03:33am

Stark wrote:I'd love to see it, so long as it isn't EU. In ROTJ fighters are totally useless against shielded starships. ProTorps barely dented the surface of the Death Star. No canon evidence for X-wings with more than one set of torps.
I agree that a concentrated attack on once part of the shield by lots of warheads may have some effect, but in SW fighters just aren't capital ship-killers.


Interesting...
Canon information: X-Wings can fire 2 torpedoes, no further information stated on capacity or refire.
Offical Information: X-Wings can hold 6 torpedoes

I do not see any conflict. If you disagree, let me say this.

Canon information: Acclamators never fired a shot

You are attempting to claim that X-Wings have no more then 2 torpedoes when the canon information does not actually contradict the EU in its statement of 6 PTs. I also noted that you said the PTs dented the side dof the vent. Did you notice the damage scene with the stormies getting blown around? Some sort of damage was taken, and it was far more then what could visually bee scene by the vent. Did you also note just how much damage that X-Wing blasters did to the surface of the DS?

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Stark » 2002-07-04 06:15am

Alyeska wrote:Interesting...
Canon information: X-Wings can fire 2 torpedoes, no further information stated on capacity or refire.
Offical Information: X-Wings can hold 6 torpedoes

I do not see any conflict. If you disagree, let me say this.

Canon information: Acclamators never fired a shot

You are attempting to claim that X-Wings have no more then 2 torpedoes when the canon information does not actually contradict the EU in its statement of 6 PTs. I also noted that you said the PTs dented the side dof the vent. Did you notice the damage scene with the stormies getting blown around? Some sort of damage was taken, and it was far more then what could visually bee scene by the vent. Did you also note just how much damage that X-Wing blasters did to the surface of the DS?


Yeah I did. But the torps could have damaged nearby turrets/building etc outside the armour belt and caused interior explosions and knocked down the poor stormie. There is no evidence that happened deep inside the DS. And the buildings were on the very outside, not in the trench around a port connected directly to the reactor. (Indeed there are turrets directly alongside the port).

And I'm not arguing specifically against multi-torp carrying X-wings; simply that there is no evidence for it. You're right it's not contradicted, but neither is their any actual evidence that torps can take down ISD shields. Given that the EU says torps have 1kt yields and the EU says TLs are 200 Gt, explain how the EU supports your opinion?

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Postby SPOOFE » 2002-07-04 07:23am

And I'm not arguing specifically against multi-torp carrying X-wings; simply that there is no evidence for it.

There's plenty of evidence for it. D'ya wanna hear it? It involves the EU, so it might be scary at first to realize that the Star Wars saga extends beyond the movies... :D

Given that the EU says torps have 1kt yields and the EU says TLs are 200 Gt, explain how the EU supports your opinion?

The EU also states that torps are in the hundreds of megaton range. Contradiction? Nope. There's just different types of torpedoes. Some are REALLY WEAK... others are REALLY STRONG.
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Postby Rob Wilson » 2002-07-04 07:54am

Doomriser wrote:A TIE Fighter wouldn't be able to wipe out all of Starfleet. It doesn't have a hyperdrive.


Thief! Thief, someone stop that man.
:)

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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Rob Wilson » 2002-07-04 08:02am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: No I implied the post was a troll as a joke. Dear god man, did you have your sense of hunour surgically removed or something.

Now again, do you have any examples of your own? After all the "outrageous Okana" is so well known, what would be it's Warsie counterpart? And Doomriser was able to supply a small montian of quotes in the Dishonest Trekkie thread, so surely if it's so widespread among Warsies as well, you can easily do the same... right?


Actually I wasn't sure what you were refering to. It's not that I don't find it funny but I wanted to be sure.....moving on now.

UGH! This thread is meant as a joke! However, if anyone has heard any dishonest warsie claims I was interested in hearing it.

For example "One TIE fighter is enough to wipe out all of Starfleet"

I am not trying to claim that warsie dishonesty is just as widespread or anything like that, how did you come to this conclusion? Why can't you just participate in the thread or stay out if you don't have anything to offer it?? No offense, but you seem to be offended by this thread.


Hardly, I'm just wondering about the relative ratio for Mad Trekkie to Mad Warsie. I also thought you might have had few examples for us to poke fun at. Most of the daft ones I've seen have been lack of logic in thier arguments rather than outright lies or daft evidence. For lack of logic Look up Transcends posts to ASVS, the guy was so far short of a working braincell he actually managed to post a "Concession Accepted" to himself.

As to the Humour, your reply was so poe-faced I had to wonder how serious you were being. Lighten up, go kick a moron or something - here borrow mine * pushes Timmy forward*
:D

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Postby Grand Admiral Thrawn » 2002-07-04 08:51am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Howedar wrote:Well it could, it would just take a really, really long time.

:D


:roll:






Jesus Fucking a telephone do you even know what the fuck a :D means?

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Postby Rob Wilson » 2002-07-04 09:06am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Howedar wrote:Well it could, it would just take a really, really long time.

:D


:roll:


Jesus Fucking a telephone do you even know what the fuck a :D means?


I too am beginning to wonder, and as you can tell I know what it means, it's a Full stop see :)

Just call me Mr Smiley :P

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Postby Doomriser » 2002-07-04 10:30am

Rob Wilson wrote:
Doomriser wrote:A TIE Fighter wouldn't be able to wipe out all of Starfleet. It doesn't have a hyperdrive.


Thief! Thief, someone stop that man.
:)


Oh come one, that argument was around when new chapters of Conquest were being posted!

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Postby Peregrin Toker » 2002-07-04 11:13am

Durandal wrote:Here's a dishonest claim:

The Federation would kick the Empire's ass.


Well, the Federation can't kick the Empire's ass.... but Captain James Tiberius Kirk can kick the Empire's ass.... (I might suggest an addition to the "laws of sci-fi" essay that says "Captain Kirk is capable of defeating everything, even gods"....)

However, Jim Kirk is the ONLY way the Federation ever can come close to defeating the Empire... the ONLY way. No Kirk, no Federal victory.

As soon the Empire nails Kirk in a SW vs. ST fight, the Federation loses its chances....

I haven't heard a single dishonest pro-SW claim yet....
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Postby Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-04 12:06pm

Just look for posts from Transcend on Google, as they said above. The problem is that Warsies don't generally need to be dishonest to debate successfully. They've got a huge weight of Canon and Official material behind them, and a lot of it says that Star Wars is more powerful than the Federation.

In order to win, the hard-core trekkies have to lie and cheat. It's the same reason that you see B5ers on SB flip out and behave like fools, with "Hyperions have 200GT per second!" calculations and other miscellaneous crap. B5, as a Sci-Fi universe, is set on a smaller scale than Star Trek. Star Trek has a similar situation in relation to Star Wars, and something like the Culture is stronger than SW. But this unacceptable to a few characters.

So, Warsies don't tend to lie and use logical fallacies as often, or at least as glaringly. The closest you can really get to that is morons like Transcend, who aren't too bright.
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Re: Dishonest Warsie Claims

Postby Guest » 2002-07-04 12:20pm

Stark wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, they can take on ISDs, in numbers.

Get a couple squadrons together (or even one), and fire off proton torpedoes. Particle shields will go down on the first or second volley. Target bridge and then individual gun turrets.

Oh, and I've got a buttload of evidence behind me :D.


I'd love to see it, so long as it isn't EU. In ROTJ fighters are totally useless against shielded starships. ProTorps barely dented the surface of the Death Star. No canon evidence for X-wings with more than one set of torps.
I agree that a concentrated attack on once part of the shield by lots of warheads may have some effect, but in SW fighters just aren't capital ship-killers.


Why do you think they invented the B-Wing? The B-Wing (seen in ROTJ) is not a dogfighter (look at the laser configuration--HORRIBLE for dogfighting). Why else have ion cannons on it? They are also butt-slow. They are definitely capital ship killers.

Oh, and official information is quite acceptable, so long as it does not contradict canon.

SW fighters CAN, HAVE, and WILL be a threat to capital ships.

I believe the novelization (canon, IIRC) states that each X-Wing only had a single pair of torpedoes because they were in low supply.


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