UKRAINE WAR - 1 YEAR AND GOING.

[aerius]

Russia's regime, where it's state media and officials are using genocidal rhetoric and insane conspiracy theories* and where it's army made war crimes and terror bombings against civilians an official military strategy, has been labelled as a terrorist state for a reason.
Putin wants Ukraine, preferably with as few as possible Ukrainians in it, which is why he wants to create millions of refugees.

*seriously, the best anti Russian propaganda is Russian state media itself

It's a war, WTF do you expect them to do, nicely ask the other side to please lie down and die? We might find this shit abhorrent and call it war crimes, for them, it was Tuesday.

[Ralin]

It's a war, WTF do you expect them to do, nicely ask the other side to please lie down and die? We might find this shit abhorrent and call it war crimes, for them, it was Tuesday.

Not deliberately targeting civilians, treating prisoners humanely, not torturing people, etc. You know, the internationally agreed upon rules of war going back centuries.

I guess you wanted to sound edgy and cynical too?

[Gandalf]

Then what would you call it?

(While in France I did hear the term "secession crisis" in place of civil war, so maybe that?)

In any case, the unpleasantness in the US 1860-65 was a war, whatever type of war you wish to classify it as.

I'd class it as an insurrection, like the one under George Washington.

[aerius]

It's a war, WTF do you expect them to do, nicely ask the other side to please lie down and die? We might find this shit abhorrent and call it war crimes, for them, it was Tuesday.

Not deliberately targeting civilians, treating prisoners humanely, not torturing people, etc. You know, the internationally agreed upon rules of war going back centuries.

I guess you wanted to sound edgy and cynical too?

The laws which no one has followed unless it's convenient for them.

[Ralin]

The laws which no one has followed unless it's convenient for them.

I guess you wanted to sound edgy and cynical too?

[wautd]

Russia's regime, where it's state media and officials are using genocidal rhetoric and insane conspiracy theories* and where it's army made war crimes and terror bombings against civilians an official military strategy, has been labelled as a terrorist state for a reason.
Putin wants Ukraine, preferably with as few as possible Ukrainians in it, which is why he wants to create millions of refugees.

*seriously, the best anti Russian propaganda is Russian state media itself

It's a war, WTF do you expect them to do, nicely ask the other side to please lie down and die? We might find this shit abhorrent and call it war crimes, for them, it was Tuesday.

I'm not even sure if I should dignify this with a response

[Ralin]

I'm not even sure if I should dignify this with a response

I dunno man, I called out Highlord Laan for being kinda racist but I doubt he literally believes Russians are debased monster men. Aerius, not so much.

[LadyTevar]

Ok, folks, dial it down.

There's a lot of misinformation out there right now, and even more finger-pointing. We won't know the truth for weeks, if ever.

[KraytKing]

Seems like the Ukrainian offensive has started. Lots of tank losses going on right now. Interested in how this develops, so far most of the information is Russian channels showing off exploding Ukrainian armor and a handful of Ukrainian channels showing the opposite. Kyiv is keeping quiet, dunno if there's been an advance or what.

[Rogue 9]

Kyiv isn't going to announce to the world (and therefore to Russia) what exactly their plans are. I just hope Ukraine's air defenses are up to it, because without significant fighters the Russians are going to operate attack helicopters with relative impunity, and that's murder on tanks.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well the USA has been supplying Ukraine with Stingers to guard against that.

[LadyTevar]

From BBCNews LIVE Updates

Does new evidence indicate explosion destroyed the dam?
There have been many theories about the cause of the destruction of the Nova Kakhovka dam, but it remains unclear whether explosive devices were responsible.

We know that the breach occurred early in the morning of Tuesday 6 June.

A new report from Norwegian scientists says there’s evidence of an explosion in the area of the dam at 02:54 local time. They say seismic data indicates a blast within a radius of 20-30 km of the dam.

However, it’s important to note that according to surveillance footage seen by BBC Verify the dam had been breached before that time.

The time stamp on that video shows it had already been extensively damaged by 02:46 with torrents of water flowing over it.

Also, local Telegram channels reported the sound of an explosion first at 02:18 then at 02:40 more chat discussed the sound of water flowing rapidly.

All this suggests that if an explosion was responsible for the dam breach, it would have already happened before 02:54, the time of the seismic event detected by the Norwegian scientists.

[Lord Revan]

To be fair thanks to the forces involved the dam breaking under stress could sound (and possibly look in seismic sensors) like an explosion, I'm not ruling out an explosion but it's far from certain.

[Solauren]

Or the explosion could have been unrelated, as it happened after the breach was reported, and was some distance away.

[Lord Revan]

Or the explosion could have been unrelated, as it happened after the breach was reported, and was some distance away.

True as well warzones tend to have plenty of explosions and whole of Ukraine should be considered a warzone.

EDIT:I was referring to the earlier reports of explosions though.

[Ralin]

Ok, folks, dial it down.

There's a lot of misinformation out there right now, and even more finger-pointing. We won't know the truth for weeks, if ever.

I think everyone here has acknowledged to some degree or another that we don't know who was responsible even if we have our own opinions on who is most likely.

Pretty sure what we were getting heated about was the drive-by 'lol what do you expect them to do; not commit war crimes? That's just how Russia rolls' and 'haha you just think Russia bad' crap.

[Gandalf]

The weird orc reference wasn't particularly great.

Curious to know if Highlord could explain that.

[LadyTevar]

This Headline from the BBC may be Sensationalist, but they seem to be quoting Russian Media's spin.

TL:DR -- Volunteer forces are going to be asked to sign on DIRECTLY with the Russian Ministry of Defense. Russian Media and Prigozhin both claim this is an attempt to control Wagner, and Prigozhin says none of his forces will sign those contracts. Then Prigozhin adds he's ready to deploy on Russian soil, "to fight the insurrectionists in Belgorod".

Russia Moves to Take Control of Wagner

Russia appears to have moved to take direct control of Wagner, after months of infighting between defence officials and the private military group.

Deputy Defence Minister Nikolai Pankov said on Saturday "volunteer formations" will be asked to sign contracts directly with the ministry of defence.
The vaguely worded statement is widely believed to target the group.

But in a furious statement on Sunday, Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin said his forces would boycott the contracts.
The private military group has played a major role in the war in Ukraine, fighting on the side of Russian forces.

But Prigozhin, who is said to hold political ambitions of his own, has been embroiled in a public dispute with Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and military chief Valery Gerasimov for months.
He has repeatedly accused the pair of incompetence and of deliberately undersupplying Wagner units fighting in Ukraine.

"Wagner will not sign any contracts with Shoigu," Prigozhin said in response to a request for comment on the defence ministry's announcement. "Shoigu cannot properly manage military formation."

He insisted that his group was well integrated with the Russian military, but said that its effectiveness would be damaged by having to report to the defence minister.

While Saturday's announcement did not directly reference Wagner or any other paramilitary groups, Russian media suggested that the new contracts were a move to bring Prigozhin and his forces under control.
But the defence ministry said the move was designed to "increase the effectiveness" of Russian units fighting in Ukraine.

"This will give volunteer formations the necessary legal status, create common approaches to the organization of comprehensive support and the fulfilment of their tasks," the ministry said in a statement, adding that the contracts must be signed by 1 July.

The long-running tensions between the Wagner Group and the army have threatened to boil over in recent weeks.[

Last week the group kidnapped a senior frontline army commander, Lt Col Roman Venevitin, after accusing him of opening fire on a Wagner vehicle near Bakhmut.
Lt Col Venevitin was later released, and in a video shared by Russian military bloggers he accused the group of stoking "anarchy" on Russia's frontlines by stealing arms, forcing mobilised soldiers to sign contracts with the group and attempting to extort weapons from the defence ministry.

Prigozhin called the comments - which appeared to be read from a script - "absolutely total nonsense".
He has also suggested that he is ready to deploy his troops on Russian soil, saying on Telegram that Wagner was ready to fight against insurrectionist forces in the Belgorod region.

In December, the US estimated that Wagner had around 50,000 troops fighting in Ukraine.

And the mercenary group has increasingly become a tool of Russian state power around the world. Its troops are currently believed to have been deployed in Mali, the Central African Republic, Sudan and Libya.

[Solauren]

Translation - Wagner has pissed to enough people off, they want him under thumb. Failing that, I suspect under the ground.

[Lord Revan]

Translation - Wagner has pissed to enough people off, they want him under thumb. Failing that, I suspect under the ground.

Pissed off enough people or pissed off the right (or from Wagner's point of view wrong) people. Russia currently is a place where "favor of the court" means loads and if Prigozhin has lost Putin's favor or it has been reduced, he has more then enough enemies that once Prigozhin is no longer protected by Putin he'll loose a lot of his influence.

[Solauren]

Translation - Wagner has pissed to enough people off, they want him under thumb. Failing that, I suspect under the ground.

Pissed off enough people or pissed off the right (or from Wagner's point of view wrong) people. Russia currently is a place where "favor of the court" means loads and if Prigozhin has lost Putin's favor or it has been reduced, he has more then enough enemies that once Prigozhin is no longer protected by Putin he'll loose a lot of his influence.

Pissed off enough people, that is now includes the ones that can screw him over?

[Lord Revan]

Translation - Wagner has pissed to enough people off, they want him under thumb. Failing that, I suspect under the ground.

Pissed off enough people or pissed off the right (or from Wagner's point of view wrong) people. Russia currently is a place where "favor of the court" means loads and if Prigozhin has lost Putin's favor or it has been reduced, he has more then enough enemies that once Prigozhin is no longer protected by Putin he'll loose a lot of his influence.

Pissed off enough people, that is now includes the ones that can screw him over?

Maybe, as with all news from Russia you got to take them with truck load of salt.

[Gerald Tarrant]

An ecclesiastical court of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) has declared pacifism to be a heresy incompatible with its teachings, according to a report by media outlet Sota citing documents in a case on the defrocking of priest Ioann Burdin, who spoke out against the invasion of Ukraine. In a sermon, Burdin said: “we, Christians, dare not stand aside when a brother kills a brother, a Christian kills a Christian.”

The publication wrote that Burdin had been trying to leave the Russian Orthodox Church and join the Bulgarian Orthodox Church since last fall, but was warned that “if [you] try to leave the Russian Orthodox Church, you might be banned and stripped of your ministry. Apparently no one gets to leave the ROC.”

Burdin regardlessly submitted an official request to transfer. The priest was banned from ministry on March 16, with a church trial being scheduled for June 16. He was also told that the ROC's decision to disassociate from the priest was made personally by Patriarch Kirill, wrote Sota.

The publication studied the case files, which said that pacifism was a concept alien to the current teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church.

“...pacifism, which priest Burdin tries to use as a cover against accusations against him, is not compatible with the actual teaching of the Orthodox Church, in particular that set out in the Fundamentals of the Social Concept. Pacifism has been present in heretical doctrines at various times in Church history…”
The case files also indicate that church officials accused Burdin of “pseudo-pacifism.” In particular, they said that Burdin criticized the Russian authorities, as opposed to those of Ukraine, and kept silent about “the auto-da-fé arranged in his hometown of Odesa,” referring to the clashes in Odesa in 2014, which resulted in the deaths of 48 people, 46 of whom were anti-Maidan and pro-Russian activists. 42 of the victims died in the Trade Unions House fire.

The case files also indicate that the church court directly admitted the ROC's political affiliations.

The publication studied the case files, which said that pacifism was a concept alien to the current teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church.

“...pacifism, which priest Burdin tries to use as a cover against accusations against him, is not compatible with the actual teaching of the Orthodox Church, in particular that set out in the Fundamentals of the Social Concept. Pacifism has been present in heretical doctrines at various times in Church history…”
The case files also indicate that church officials accused Burdin of “pseudo-pacifism.” In particular, they said that Burdin criticized the Russian authorities, as opposed to those of Ukraine, and kept silent about “the auto-da-fé arranged in his hometown of Odesa,” referring to the clashes in Odesa in 2014, which resulted in the deaths of 48 people, 46 of whom were anti-Maidan and pro-Russian activists. 42 of the victims died in the Trade Unions House fire.

The case files also indicate that the church court directly admitted the ROC's political affiliations.

[edit]Wrong Link, sorry, this is the correct one Link
The Below is to a Russian Orthodox priest getting defrocked and facing prison as well. [/edit]
Link
Short version, a Russian Orthodox Priest is getting defrocked for preaching peace. The bolded section is a particularly galling section.

I wonder how they preach on the New Testament? "Love your Russian neighbor"

[Gerald Tarrant]

<double post, sorry>

[Highlord Laan]

How are you able to type with orcish cock that far down your throat?

Are we doing racial epithets for Russians here now?

It's okay. Vatniks don't know they're scum.