Mueller Investigation Superthread

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-03-26 10:40pm

Actually, I'm trying to speak up for the other side because I am concerned that too many people are simply falling in line with what the Barr summary says, with even many Left-wing media sources basically echoing that Trump is exonerated and anyone who disagrees is just partisan/a nut/should let it go. And that kind of group-think is dangerous, especially when it is literally being used to justifying political investigation of Trump's opponents.

Yeah, I'm angry. The Left could stand a little more anger sometimes. Too many of us are so afraid of appearing "partisan" or "biased" (remember all the liberals coming out while Trump was locking children in cages to chide the protesters for not being more civil to the fascists?), and I think we're seeing that again in certain liberal media figures falling in line with Trump's narrative, feeling like its their responsibility to just shut up and take their licks and let Trump have his win, rather than asking questions, even when those questions are legitimate and justified. I am afraid of a scenario where Trump/Barr's narrative of total exoneration and witch hunt becomes the prevailing "truth" in the eyes of the public- and of the effect that will have on the credibility of future efforts to hold this President accountable. So I am trying to do the little I can, as a nobody without a nation-wide public platform to speak from, to speak up for the other point of view.

And, I admit, because the hypocrisy, dishonesty, and pettiness of people like Vymple pisses me off.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-03-26 10:42pm

For something a bit lighter, here is Stephen Colbert's take on the whole mess:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKs3L5IdOko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_7wPf9geSM
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by LadyTevar » 2019-03-26 10:58pm

Just a Reminder -- stalking someone from thread to thread is a Violation of the Rules of this Board. It is cause for banning.

This is your First Warning.
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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-03-26 11:11pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-03-26 10:11pm
Glad to hear that you support its release.

As far as the laws needing to be changed is concerned, that was addressed at Vymple, not at you. But I'm willing to bet that we could get some laws passed on foreign election interference, between the Democrats who are outraged over 2016, and the few remaining old guard nationalist Republicans. However, to have the information on the full extent of any loop holes Trump and Russia may have exploited, we need the full report.

Just give us the facts. Give the people the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, whoever it helps or hurts, and let the chips fall where they may.
How much needs a law change ?
How much just needs better enforcement of existing law ?

The podcast "Mueller She Wrote" mentioned that the FBI have beefed up a division tasked with enforcing the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Though I haven't found any articles to corroborate that claim.

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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by Vympel » 2019-03-26 11:36pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-03-26 09:13pm
The following are facts. Not admitted speculation like "Greenwald was barred from MSNBC for questioning collusion", or outright lies like "Collusion was made up by the Clinton campaign to justify their defeat". Facts.
It's good to see you're still lying about my arguments about what Clinton is responsible for.
1. While Barr's summary claims complete exoneration of Trump on collusion, the actual passage of the Mueller report that he quotes is much more narrow: it claims only that Mueller could not establish Trump's involvement in a criminal conspiracy with Russia during the election. It says nothing about conspiring with private entities not directly tied to the Russian government, nor about ways in which Trump might be a dupe of or compromised by Russia that do not qualify as crimes.
Nor does it say that Trump isn't a xenomorph from Planet Morphulon. Also a very important fact!
2. The report does not exonerate the Trump campaign of "collusion". Collusion is not a criminal term. Trump may not have illegally conspired with Russia, but we know for a fact that the Trump campaign colluded- that they sought illegally obtained information from Russia to benefit their campaign, most notably in the Trump Tower meeting.
Totally false. There is in fact, no evidence whatsoever that the information offered by some washed-up British music producer (i.e. supposed dirt on Hillary Clinton's own dealings with Russia) was illegally obtained information, before we even get close to your ludicrous, made-up claim that this constitutes a 'fact'.

Note - Russigate dead-enders constantly do this - assert totally baseless speculation that ignores all the available evidence is actually 'fact'.
3. Therefore, we also know that Barr lied (or, more charitably, severely exaggerated) in his summary when he said that the report exonerated Trump of collusion.
ROFLMAO. Yeah ok, and Mueller and his army of prosecutors are just sitting on that information. I'm sure that's what's happening here.
4. Mueller pointedly drew no conclusion on obstruction. Barr and Rosenstein concluded that there was insufficient evidence to prosecute for obstruction, after Barr made it clear prior to getting the position as AG that he believes it almost impossible for a President to commit obstruction.

And no, its not okay to obstruct an investigation if it turns out that you were innocent of the original charge. It is supremely stupid to obstruct an investigation where you are innocent, but... it's Trump.
Who cares? Trump's still not getting done for obstruction, is he? There's no version of this that results in you getting what you want. If you think anyone has the appetite for going after Trump on 'obstruction' for a crime that materially simply does not exist, that's entirely your own problem.
5. The investigation absolutely and unequivocally supports the claim that a substantial Russian interference campaign occurred in the 2016 election. Something which Trump and his supporters naturally ignore, because it serves their interests to do so, at the expense of national security.
Even if that was true, its totally irrelevant to ludicrous claims that Trump conspired with Russia in relation thereto.
6. Multiple other investigations into Trump, including some that spun off from the Mueller probe, are still ongoing.
Totally different investigations that are all totally irrelevant to ludicrous claims that Trump conspired with Russia in relation thereto.
It is also a fact that Trump and his allies are using this victory to brand those who accused Trump of collusion and investigated him as guilty of "treasonous" acts- something that Sarah Sanders was quick to emphasize carries the death penalty. And to demand further investigation of their opponents for the "crime" of investigating the President. This is not "hysteria"- it is fact. Trying to deny or downplay this blatant authoritarian attack on the justice system and political opposition makes you morally culpable in supporting calls for a political purge.
Imagine having the sheer, unmitigated gall to concern-troll about 'treason' rhetoric where you've talked for two years that Trump and everyone who works for him and everyone who disagrees with your bullshit are traitors.
I will also note that it is entirely possible to criticize collusion allegations without also defending calls to investigate the opposition for Treason. You have gone beyond arguing the merits of the collusion theory to defending despicable and authoritarian acts by Trump that have nothing to do with whether or not collusion occurred. Again, you come off looking like a loyal Trumper, or at least someone who does not mind behaving like one as long as it lets you score some points on a web forum.
Where have I defended Trump's 'despicable and authoritarian' acts? By saying that you're concern-trolling about this rhetoric is obviously silly - and - as noted above - shockingly lacking in self-awareness?

You've trafficked in and indulged constant, ugly, McCarthyite, "everyone who disagrees with my now eviscerated conspiracy theory is a Russian traitor" for years. Who the hell are you to talk about any of htis stuff?
Also, I have to say I just love how "anti-establishment" people like you, who are so quick to remind us of how evil the Western media and intelligence establishment are, bring up the Iraq war, tell us how we have to dismiss collusion allegations out of hand as Western propaganda... are now loudly asserting that Barr's summary must be taken at face value, that anyone who refuses to do so is "hysterical" or dishonest, etc. Need I remind you that Barr's resume includes "covered up Iran Contra"? This man is the very embodiment of a "corrupt Western establishment", yet we are supposed to suddenly take his word at face value because it happens to fit your narrative?

The shameless hypocrisy and dishonesty would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.
No one thinks Barr is a good person, TRR. The argument is that your absurd conspiracy theorizing about Barr requires people to believe that Mueller and everyone who works for him are going to sit silent for days on end while Barr materially misrepresents the findings of his report.
Anyway, the DOJ is now saying that the report will be released within weeks (presumably to give them time to redact stuff). Hopefully, then, we will get a fuller sense of what Mueller's conclusions were, and why. However, I believe that Congress, at least, must still see the full and unreacted report, to ensure that the redactions are justified by necessity and not done simply to conceal details that would reflect poorly on Trump or on Barr.
What may merely 'reflects poorly' on Trump is irrelevant. This asinine conspiracy theory is still dead.
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Re: Mueller Investigation Superthread

Post by LadyTevar » 2019-03-27 01:52pm

NICE TO SEE I'M BEING IGNORED. THREAD LOCKED.
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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet

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