Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Q99 » 2017-02-24 12:11am

atg wrote: At the end of the day:
  • The Federation took over a station without having full control over it's internal systems. From an enemy specifically known to love to leave booby traps behind (mentioned both by Kira in the pilot and by O'Brien in the episode where they go to the other abandoned Cardassian station).
I am pretty sure they did at least pretty thoroughs scan and trap-check for everything they could find- the show didn't start on literal day one. Also, there were people there for the whole changeover, Bajorans and Odo, while the Cardassians left really fast, so not a lot of time to lay subtle stuff (and the most subtle deeply buried trap was indeed laid long ago, the anti-riot on) and probably not wanting to provoke an incident by leaving things too bad.

They didn't have complete control, but nor did they likely go in blind.

Heck, the Federation may also have had some interest in having a whole station of Cardassian tech to get familiar with. Sure, it's not as good, but they're a curious bunch and expanding knowledge of a rival's systems is a useful thing. It does mean going into the next conflict with Cardassia (which did come), they have much more hands on knowledge. Which makes it much harder to catch them offguard if they, say, need to capture a *hostile* Cardassian station in the future. They now know the anti-riot protocols, what normal operation looks for, and every hack and back door that O'Brien figures out over years of working there- which is, presumably, a lot.

So they may have been learning from the incidents in question, but learning a rather different lesson than you read into it ("Neat, we now know how Cardassian anti-riot program traps are buried!").

They've got a bit of the 'stick a fork in the energy cloud' mentality.

Tribble wrote:atg makes a good point about the civilians; after the virus incident all non-essential personnel should have been evacuated until they knew with absolutely certainly that there weren't other hidden "gems" in the computer programming or other booby-traps.

As for replacing the station that was a non-starter; the Bajorans certainly wouldn't have approved and neither would the Cardassians. IMO the Cardassians initially tolerated the Feds presence since technically it was a civilian station under Bajoran control with the Feds merely providing oversight; I doubt they would have put up with an official Federation starbase and military presence (though things changed when the Dominion were discovered).
Also they likely did not reckon on how absurdly well-armed the Federation could make a mining station.

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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Tribble » 2017-02-24 12:33am

Q99 wrote:Also they likely did not reckon on how absurdly well-armed the Federation could make a mining station.
Which is kinda funny in retrospect given that as a mining station it would have an awful lot of space to store weapons on.

I wonder why the Cardassians just left it there instead of blowing it up? Perhaps they were hoping to take it back shortly after?
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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Q99 » 2017-02-24 02:21am

Tribble wrote: Which is kinda funny in retrospect given that as a mining station it would have an awful lot of space to store weapons on.

I wonder why the Cardassians just left it there instead of blowing it up? Perhaps they were hoping to take it back shortly after?
Considering they did try to take it back, probably.

And/or they thought it'd play bad politically, or such. Hm, maybe just didn't feel they had the time/local shipping to get all the civilians and such off, and while they are jerks, they aren't that vindictive to blow up a station while some people who used to work on it for them are still there.

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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Gandalf » 2017-02-24 02:49am

At the end of the occupation, Bajor seemed pretty devastated. Perhaps having the station next to the wormhole was an important source of income for a cash strapped Provisional Government? If the station had to be shut down for a few months for retooling, that's a huge investment coupled with a loss of income.
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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2017-02-24 03:18am

Q99 wrote: And/or they thought it'd play bad politically, or such. Hm, maybe just didn't feel they had the time/local shipping to get all the civilians and such off, and while they are jerks, they aren't that vindictive to blow up a station while some people who used to work on it for them are still there.
Yeah, toward the end (of season 6/7) Dukat would have done it, but Pre DS9 Dukat wasn't quite as nuts. I can't see him ordering the slaughter of hundreds for no reason. He always had a reason or perceived wrong with his tactics.
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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Q99 » 2017-02-24 05:19pm

Exactly. And that's another thing about bobbytraps- They knew of course the Cardassians were planning on making things as uncomfortable as possible, but they weren't worried about any purposeful mass death like a torpedo in the cargo bays or a self-destruct on the fusion plants or such.

In the end, there were two bobbytraps. One virus made by Bajorans intended for Cardassians (that was originally intended to activate 20 years before, oops... which also goes to show it was *well* hidden, as the stations' normal owners didn't pick it up for decades either), the other was a Cardassian defense mechanism not intended to be a trap.

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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-02-24 11:19pm

I'd say it's highly likely that the cardassians were planning on taking back Bajor (and probably other systems they had lost in the peace treaty as well). Since we know that Cardassia Prime major shortage of critical supplies like food (well it's said they have an overpopulation problem) and the cardassians don't seem like the kind of people who would be able to solve that thru trade, I'd be willing to even suggest that cardassians wouldn't even try as it would be too much of a blow to their pride to admit they can't solve their problems without help from others.

Their egos seems to be the cardassians major problem, the whole thing that bajorans should be thankful for the honor of having been exploited by cardassians, granted only Gul Dukat was crazy and/or drunk enough to say that out loud but that seems to be the way cardassians in general felt at least before the dominion war and the national embrasment that became for the Cardassian Union.
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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Q99 » 2017-02-25 01:29am

Lord Revan wrote:I'd say it's highly likely that the cardassians were planning on taking back Bajor (and probably other systems they had lost in the peace treaty as well).
Additionally, Bajor was independent. Other worlds lost at the end of the war were part of the Federation- beyond reach short of another war. Bajor was merely an independent world now, currently protected but not part of the Federation, a reversable situation even without war.
Since we know that Cardassia Prime major shortage of critical supplies like food (well it's said they have an overpopulation problem)
I imagine space rather than food is top priority. Unlike the Kazons, they've got the tech and enough worlds that food's not likely going to be a problem, but a harsh planet may have limited preferable living spaces.

Though it could be a situation where they were making lots of unappetizing low-quality food to feed the numbers over higher quality foods.
Their egos seems to be the cardassians major problem, the whole thing that bajorans should be thankful for the honor of having been exploited by cardassians, granted only Gul Dukat was crazy and/or drunk enough to say that out loud but that seems to be the way cardassians in general felt at least before the dominion war and the national embrasment that became for the Cardassian Union.
Definitely.

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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-02-25 05:46am

Q99 wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:I'd say it's highly likely that the cardassians were planning on taking back Bajor (and probably other systems they had lost in the peace treaty as well).
Additionally, Bajor was independent. Other worlds lost at the end of the war were part of the Federation- beyond reach short of another war. Bajor was merely an independent world now, currently protected but not part of the Federation, a reversable situation even without war.
most definetly and it's likely why the bajoran provisional goverment wants a clear starfleet presence at DS9 so show in essense that "screw with us you screw with the Federation"
Since we know that Cardassia Prime major shortage of critical supplies like food (well it's said they have an overpopulation problem)
I imagine space rather than food is top priority. Unlike the Kazons, they've got the tech and enough worlds that food's not likely going to be a problem, but a harsh planet may have limited preferable living spaces.

Though it could be a situation where they were making lots of unappetizing low-quality food to feed the numbers over higher quality foods.
I always took the cardassian's problem to be mostly administrative rather then lack of logistical capasity so sure in theory the Cardassian Union had the tech they could use to solve their issues but they were more conserned at building starships and phasers then feeding their people, which was probably the reason for the shortlived civilian take over, Still space is something that you don't run out of that easily, especially if you can import food from other worlds. A replicator isn't a magical "solve all problems" device and planets tend to be huge so possible living space even if it's not paradise shouldn't run out that fast, but food especially if your leaders are more conserned about their egos then running the nation properly can run out quite fast.
Their egos seems to be the cardassians major problem, the whole thing that bajorans should be thankful for the honor of having been exploited by cardassians, granted only Gul Dukat was crazy and/or drunk enough to say that out loud but that seems to be the way cardassians in general felt at least before the dominion war and the national embrasment that became for the Cardassian Union.
Definitely.
while Gul Dukat was an extreme example people like Gul Madred*sic* (from TNG) seem to feel the same even if they weren't explictly spelling it out like Dukat was during his mad rants.
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Re: Was DS9 up to date with UFP safety standards?

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-02-25 06:11am

the edit window closed but I wanted to add this besides food there's other supplies the cardassians could low on that were causing a food shortage even if there was technically enough food around for example medicine or spare parts for the tech that makes the food. keeping a disportionately large space navy seems to be the top priority of the goverment of the Cardassian Union for most of DS9. a decent real world analogue might be North Korea, the "party" elite live in relative luxury only conserned about their own egos while the peasants starve, sure it's not a perfect analogue the cardassians seem both a greater power in the grand scheme then the North Korea ever could be and the cardassian leaders don't seem to be quite as divorsed from reality as North Korean leaders seems to be in general at least.
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