What if Picard took over the Academy?(RAR)

[FaxModem1]

In the season 1 episode, "Coming of Age", Picard is offered the position of Admiral and offered the post of being the head of Starfleet Academy. This is due to Admiral Quinn fearing of a conspiracy to take down Starfeet and the Federation. This conspiracy is eventually stopped later on in the episode "Conspiracy". Picard, at the time, refuses, but what would happened if he had accepted?

[The Romulan Republic]

I imagine he'd either be taken out by the conspiracy, or expose it earlier, barring something else interfering.

The question then is how the Enterprise would fair with someone else (presumably most likely Riker) in command. Frankly, I think it wouldn't fair as well- Picard is overall a pretty good captain, from what I've seen.

Also, I wonder if it would then be Riker, rather than Picard, who becomes Locutus.

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's been a while since I've seen the episodes in question, but wasn't the conspiracy in question a result of some parasitic brain aliens or something like that? IIRC, the reason the Enterprise crew was able to stop the conspiracy was because they returned to Earth and had not been exposed to the parasites. If Picard had been on Earth, the likelihood of him being infected or taken over is radically higher, and thus being unable to help stop things.

[RogueIce]

The question then is how the Enterprise would fair with someone else (presumably most likely Riker) in command.

Riker was still brand new (or nearly so) to the XO spot in Season 1, wasn't he? I can't imagine he'd be promoted to Captain in this scenario. More likely Starfleet would find another Starship Captain or any officer of Captain rank (or a more senior Commander who'd been an XO for longer) to take the job.

[Lord Revan]

The question then is how the Enterprise would fair with someone else (presumably most likely Riker) in command.

Riker was still brand new (or nearly so) to the XO spot in Season 1, wasn't he? I can't imagine he'd be promoted to Captain in this scenario. More likely Starfleet would find another Starship Captain or any officer of Captain rank (or a more senior Commander who'd been an XO for longer) to take the job.

I seem to remember that it was implied that Riker was so new to task that Enterprice was his first posting as a full commander, I could have remembered poorly though.

[WATCH-MAN]

The question then is how the Enterprise would fair with someone else (presumably most likely Riker) in command.

Riker was still brand new (or nearly so) to the XO spot in Season 1, wasn't he? I can't imagine he'd be promoted to Captain in this scenario. More likely Starfleet would find another Starship Captain or any officer of Captain rank (or a more senior Commander who'd been an XO for longer) to take the job.

Before being transferred to the Enterprise, Riker was first officer at least on the USS Hood under Captain Robert DeSoto. His service aboard the ship was exemplary, even despite an incident where Riker refused to allow Captain DeSoto to transport into a hostile situation on planet Altair III.

• • From the TNG episode "The Pegasus":
    
    • • • • PICARD:
        As a matter of fact, I never met Wil before he reported aboard at Farpoint Station.
        
        • • PRESSMAN:
        You chose your first officer without ever meeting him?
        
        • • PICARD:
        I was looking through the records of about fifty candidates... Wil's was much like all the others... filled with the usual dry statistics and glowing letters of recommendation that tell you nothing. I was about to put it aside and go on to the next file, when something caught my eye. There had been an incident on Altair Three when Wil was First Officer of the Hood. He refused to let Captain DeSoto beam down during a crisis. He disobeyed a direct order and risked a general court martial because he thought he was right. When I read that ... I knew I'd found my Number One.

And, before being transferred to the Enterprise, Riker was already offered his own command on the USS Drake, but he turned it down for his assignment on the USS Enterprise.

• • From the TNG episode "The Arsenal of Freedom":
    
    • • • • PICARD:
        Number One, weren't you offered the Drake?
        
        • • RIKER:
        Yes.
        
        • • TASHA:
        You turned down your own command to take this assignment?
        
        • • RIKER:
        At the time, I thought it was more advantageous for me to do a tour on the Enterprise.

[Simon_Jester]

Not all Starfleet ships are the same size or represent the same amount of responsibility. It is entirely plausible that Riker would be deemed senior enough to command Drake but not to command Enterprise.

[WATCH-MAN]

Of course it is not to be expected that Riker's first command would be one over one of the flagships of Starfleet.

Picard was captain of the Stargazer until the ship was lost at least seven years before the TNG episode "The Battle".

What Picard did for the seven years between the Stargazer and the Enterprise is unknown.

It is possible that he was in command of another ship as it seems unlikely that he would get the command of the newly commissioned Enterprise, the probably most prestigious captaincy in Starfleet at that time, if his last command was seven years ago, ended with the loss of his ship and if he were since then only a paper pusher.

Insofar it is not to be expected that Riker's first command would be that over the Enterprise.

But he was not - as RogueIce argued -still brand new (or nearly so) to the XO spot so that it would be unimaginable for him to be promoted to Captain.

[Lord Revan]

well it depends on what Picard did those seven years even if he was in a staff position but there's alot of "paper pusher" jobs as you put in military style organization, Picard could have been for example an instructor at the Academy, clearly a staff position but one plenty of prestige.

[Tribble]

Guinan stated that Q had significantly altered the timeline by having the Federation make first contact with the Borg far earlier than it should have. The only reason the E-D was sent to J-25 was because Picard was arrogant and pompous enough to challenge Q directly and state that humanity was able to deal with anything. I doubt other Starfleet captains would have been quite so dismissive of Q, assuming that he made the same offer to Picard's replacement.

Not meeting the Borg until much later would have a lot of ramifications. On the one hand, the Feds wouldn't have been kicked in the butt and would still be in "peacetime" mode, and their tech wouldn't have developed anywhere near as fast. On the other hand, things like the Dominion War wouldn't have happened either. The wormhole was only opened to traffic because Sisko convinced the prophets to allow it, and he was only there because of the events of BOBW. So the Federation likely wouldn't face any big existential threats, at least during the years of TNG, DS9 and VOY.

[WATCH-MAN]

Guinan stated that Q had significantly altered the timeline by having the Federation make first contact with the Borg far earlier than it should have. The only reason the E-D was sent to J-25 was because Picard was arrogant and pompous enough to challenge Q directly and state that humanity was able to deal with anything. I doubt other Starfleet captains would have been quite so dismissive of Q, assuming that he made the same offer to Picard's replacement.

What's the base of your doubting?

How many other Starfleet captains do you know and what let you think that they would have behaved differently?

As for other Starfleet captains: Captain Edward Jellico comes to my mind - or Captain Keogh from the USS Odyssey or Captain Kathryn Janeway from the USS Voyager. Do you really think that these Captains are more modest than Picard?

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's less about modesty and more about being preachy. Neither Jellicoe nor Keogh nor Janeway ever really preached the Starfleet gospel quite like Picard did. And frankly, I doubt that any of those three captains would react the same way Picard does to Q's "playful" manner. Jellicoe, who is still dealing with the Cardassians at this point in history, would be far too pragmatic to try and ire Q. Janeway would probably be far more interested in him as a scientific curiosity. And Keogh? I've no idea.

[Lord Revan]

Was Janeway a captain at that point? I seem to remember that Voyager was her first command, so she'd be high ranking science officer or Executive Officer IIRC and also IIRC the Intrepid class wasn't anything that special before Voyager got herself trapped in the Delta-quadrant sure it was a test bed for some new tech like bioneural gel packs but not something that would need special selection process for the captains (beyond the normal selection porcess obviously)

[WATCH-MAN]

It's less about modesty and more about being preachy. Neither Jellicoe nor Keogh nor Janeway ever really preached the Starfleet gospel quite like Picard did. And frankly, I doubt that any of those three captains would react the same way Picard does to Q's "playful" manner. Jellicoe, who is still dealing with the Cardassians at this point in history, would be far too pragmatic to try and ire Q. Janeway would probably be far more interested in him as a scientific curiosity. And Keogh? I've no idea.

Please show that Picard preached in the TNG episode "Q Who" or that this preaching was causal for Q's decision to throw the Enterprise into uncharted space where it encounters and is engaged by a vessel of a previously unknown species: the Borg.

Q expressed his desire to join the Enterprise crew - Picard refused his request as he could not trust Q after he put the crew on trial for the crimes of humanity and asked Riker to join the Continuum - Q argued that they need him since they are not prepared for what awaits them - Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

No preaching about the Federation.

And I can not see, that Jellico, Keogh or Janeway would have responded differently - especially as Jellico and Keogh were extra arrogant.

That neither Jellico, Keogh or Janeway would have become the captain of the Enterprise if Picard had become Admiral at Starfleet Academy is not relevant.

The question is how many Captains we are knowing at all and how many from those we know would have agreed that they need Q as they are not prepared for what awaits them.

Which captain would let Q join the crew after all he did?

[WATCH-MAN]

Was Janeway a captain at that point? I seem to remember that Voyager was her first command, so she'd be high ranking science officer or Executive Officer IIRC and also IIRC the Intrepid class wasn't anything that special before Voyager got herself trapped in the Delta-quadrant sure it was a test bed for some new tech like bioneural gel packs but not something that would need special selection process for the captains (beyond the normal selection porcess obviously)

I can not remember that it was ever stated that the USS Vovager was Janeway's first command.

While it is possible, it seems unlikely as Voyager was a new ship fresh from the yard. It does not have to be special as there should be enough older ships in the fleet, which are needing a captain - e.g. when a captain retires (or is killed or wounded). An officer who just has become Captain would get such an older ship to get first experiences and only when he proves himself would he get a brand new ship.

Riker was offered only command over older ships - USS Drake, USS Aries, USS Melbourne. At last he took command over the USS Titan - although it was not revealed what type of ship the Titan was supposed to be or how old it was.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's less about modesty and more about being preachy. Neither Jellicoe nor Keogh nor Janeway ever really preached the Starfleet gospel quite like Picard did. And frankly, I doubt that any of those three captains would react the same way Picard does to Q's "playful" manner. Jellicoe, who is still dealing with the Cardassians at this point in history, would be far too pragmatic to try and ire Q. Janeway would probably be far more interested in him as a scientific curiosity. And Keogh? I've no idea.

Please show that Picard preached in the TNG episode "Q Who" or that this preaching was causal for Q's decision to throw the Enterprise into uncharted space where it encounters and is engaged by a vessel of a previously unknown species: the Borg.

Q expressed his desire to join the Enterprise crew - Picard refused his request as he could not trust Q after he put the crew on trial for the crimes of humanity and asked Riker to join the Continuum - Q argued that they need him since they are not prepared for what awaits them - Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

No preaching about the Federation.

And I can not see, that Jellico, Keogh or Janeway would have responded differently - especially as Jellico and Keogh were extra arrogant.

That neither Jellico, Keogh or Janeway would have become the captain of the Enterprise if Picard had become Admiral at Starfleet Academy is not relevant.

The question is how many Captains we are knowing at all and how many from those we know would have agreed that they need Q as they are not prepared for what awaits them.

Which captain would let Q join the crew after all he did?

Do you really think Q, who in the very first episode claimed to be judging humanity, and in the very last episode admits the trial never ended, will only be basing his actions on what Picard does and says in his presence?

As for this: "Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it." Perhaps I should have said preaching about humanity and how evolved they are now. Also what the fuck does "I don't know if we're prepared for thsi, but I know we're ready to face it" even mean? Is he that arrogant about the abilities of his ship and crew and/or the human nature, that he will willingly pit them against anything in the galaxy, with no preparation and with hundreds of civilians, including children aboard?

That alone is monumentally stupid. And given Picard already saying he can't trust Q, that means he can't trust Q not to throw them to something awful just to spite Picard.

Hence why I said Jellicoe would not have done that - he was far too much of a pragmatist to get into that situation. Even Keogh was smart enough to evacuate the civilians from Odyssey when going into an unknown but potentially dangerous situation.

[Lord Revan]

Was Janeway a captain at that point? I seem to remember that Voyager was her first command, so she'd be high ranking science officer or Executive Officer IIRC and also IIRC the Intrepid class wasn't anything that special before Voyager got herself trapped in the Delta-quadrant sure it was a test bed for some new tech like bioneural gel packs but not something that would need special selection process for the captains (beyond the normal selection porcess obviously)

I can not remember that it was ever stated that the USS Vovager was Janeway's first command.

While it is possible, it seems unlikely as Voyager was a new ship fresh from the yard. It does not have to be special as there should be enough older ships in the fleet, which are needing a captain - e.g. when a captain retires (or is killed or wounded). An officer who just has become Captain would get such an older ship to get first experiences and only when he proves himself would he get a brand new ship.

Riker was offered only command over older ships - USS Drake, USS Aries, USS Melbourne. At last he took command over the USS Titan - although it was not revealed what type of ship the Titan was supposed to be or how old it was.

It was never said in canon what type of a ship the Titan was but in EU it was a Luna-class and it was relatively new class certainly new enough to be consider an prestige assignment.

As for Voyager it's less the age and more the role and prestige that determine who gets what in navies, sure the Intrepid is alot newer then an Excelsior class but at the same time the Intrepid seems more specialized to a specific role and isn't that large to begin with. Then we should remember that Janeway's dad was an admiral so he might have pulled some strings to get his daughter the best possible assignment.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Please show that Picard preached in the TNG episode "Q Who" or that this preaching was causal for Q's decision to throw the Enterprise into uncharted space where it encounters and is engaged by a vessel of a previously unknown species: the Borg.

Q expressed his desire to join the Enterprise crew - Picard refused his request as he could not trust Q after he put the crew on trial for the crimes of humanity and asked Riker to join the Continuum - Q argued that they need him since they are not prepared for what awaits them - Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

No preaching about the Federation.

That was the first half of the conversation. The second half went:


PICARD: Simply put -- we don't trust you.

Q: Oh. (looks sad) Well, you may not trust me, but you do need me. You're not prepared for what awaits you.

PICARD: How can we be prepared for that which we do not know? But I do know we are ready to encounter it.

Q: Really? (indignation)

PICARD: Yes, absolutely. That's why we are out here.

Q: Oh, the arrogance. (to Guinan) They don't have a clue as to what's out there.

guinan: They will learn. Adapt; that is their greatest advantage.

Q: They're moving faster than expected, further than they should.

Picard: By whose calculations?

Q: You judge yourselves by the pitiful adversaries you've encountered so far... the Romulans, the Klingons. They're nothing compared to what's waiting. Picard, you are about to enter a part of the galaxy containing wonders more incredible than you can possibly imagine. And terrors to freeze your soul. I offer myself as a guide, only to be rejected out of hand.

Riker: We'll just have to do the best we can without you (folds arms, smiles smugly)

Q: What justifies that smugness?

Picard: Not Smugness, not arrogance! But we are resolute, and we're resolute, we're determined... and your help is not required.

Q: We'll just have to see how ready you are...

Guinan: Q!!!

*snap*

[WATCH-MAN]

Do you really think Q, who in the very first episode claimed to be judging humanity, and in the very last episode admits the trial never ended, will only be basing his actions on what Picard does and says in his presence?
[...] Perhaps I should have said preaching about humanity and how evolved they are now.

This argumentation is a little bit fishy.

As you argued yourself: Q put humanity on trial in the very first episode. It is only to be expected that Picard, defending humanity, points out how humanity has changed, how it has evolved. What else should he have done?

As for this: "Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it." [...] Also what the fuck does "I don't know if we're prepared for thsi, but I know we're ready to face it" even mean?

To be honest: I do not really know what Picard means when he says that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

What is the difference between being ready and being prepared?

Also what the fuck does "I don't know if we're prepared for thsi, but I know we're ready to face it" even mean? Is he that arrogant about the abilities of his ship and crew and/or the human nature, that he will willingly pit them against anything in the galaxy, with no preparation and with hundreds of civilians, including children aboard?

As you seem not to know what he means, you can't really conclude that he means that the abilities of his ship and crew and/or the human nature is prepared for what awaits them. He is only saying that they are ready to confront it. Picard seems to think that there is a difference between being prepared and being ready.

Furthermore: It was not Picards decision to have families and children aboard:

• • • • • • PICARD:
        One further thing... a special favor I have to ask of you.
        
        • • RIKER:
        Anything, sir.
        
        • • PICARD:
        Using the same kind of strength you showed with Captain DeSoto, I'd appreciate it if you can keep me from making an ass of myself with children.
        
        • • RIKER:
        Sir?
        
        • • PICARD:
        I'm not a family man, Riker, and yet, Starfleet has given me a ship with children aboard.
        
        • • RIKER:
        Yes, sir. And families
        
        • • PICARD:
        And I don't feel comfortable with children. But, since a captain needs an image of "geniality" toward the little monsters, you're to see that's exactly what I project.
        
        • • RIKER:
        Aye, sir.

And as the Enterprise is a ship of Starfleet and has a crew not only consisting of humans - Picard's preaching about humanity would have no relevance. The Federation and Starfleet is not a homo sapiens club.

That alone is monumentally stupid.

What exactly is monumentally stupid?

To be arrogant about the abilities of ones ship and crew and/or the human nature?

Please show that Picard has really shown such arrogance.

To have children aboard?

That was not Picard's decision.

To willingly pit the ship against anything in the galaxy with no preparation.

Please show that Picard has willingly done this.

To willingly pit the ship with hundreds of civilians, including children aboard against anything in the galaxy.

Please show that Picard has willingly done this.

And given Picard already saying he can't trust Q, that means he can't trust Q not to throw them to something awful just to spite Picard.

Are you arguing that Picard should have let Q join the crew of the Enterprise?

What should Picard have done in this situation?

Should he have expected to be thrown into mortal danger and - to prevent this - let Q join the crew?

It's always simple to judge a situation looking back at it knowing all that has happened.

I doubt that any captain of Starfleet would have trusted Q and would have allowed him to join the crew.

Hence why I said Jellicoe would not have done that - he was far too much of a pragmatist to get into that situation.

What a stupid thing to say. It's not as Picard has choosen to get into such a situation or could have prevented it.

What do you think would Jellico have done in the very first episode if he had to defend mankind put on trial by Q?

What do you think would Jellico have done when Q offered Riker to join the Q-continuum?

What do you think would Jellico have done when Q - after all he has done already - asked to join his crew?

Do you really think that Jellico would have agreed that he needs Q since he is not prepared for what awaits him?

Even Keogh was smart enough to evacuate the civilians from Odyssey when going into an unknown but potentially dangerous situation.

Picard was smart enough in the very first episode to separate the ship and go into a battle only with the battle section of his ship.

Keogh, not knowing anything about what awaits him, did not separated his ship and even wanted to go without support of the runabouts from DS9.

[WATCH-MAN]

It was never said in canon what type of a ship the Titan was [...]

exactly

[...]but in EU it was a Luna-class and it was relatively new class certainly new enough to be consider an prestige assignment.

irrelevant

As for Voyager it's less the age and more the role and prestige that determine who gets what in navies, sure the Intrepid is alot newer then an Excelsior class but at the same time the Intrepid seems more specialized to a specific role and isn't that large to begin with. Then we should remember that Janeway's dad was an admiral so he might have pulled some strings to get his daughter the best possible assignment.

That may be.

But it does not change the fact that it - as far as I know - and I admit that I can err - was never stated on screen that Voyager was Janeway's first command.

Nor was it stated that her father pulled some strings to get his daughter the best possible assignment - especially as this argumentation is contradictory as you first argued that the USS Voyager was not a prestigious ship.

[WATCH-MAN]

Please show that Picard preached in the TNG episode "Q Who" or that this preaching was causal for Q's decision to throw the Enterprise into uncharted space where it encounters and is engaged by a vessel of a previously unknown species: the Borg.

Q expressed his desire to join the Enterprise crew - Picard refused his request as he could not trust Q after he put the crew on trial for the crimes of humanity and asked Riker to join the Continuum - Q argued that they need him since they are not prepared for what awaits them - Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

No preaching about the Federation.

That was the first half of the conversation. The second half went:


PICARD: Simply put -- we don't trust you.

Q: Oh. (looks sad) Well, you may not trust me, but you do need me. You're not prepared for what awaits you.

PICARD: How can we be prepared for that which we do not know? But I do know we are ready to encounter it.

Q: Really? (indignation)

PICARD: Yes, absolutely. That's why we are out here.

Q: Oh, the arrogance. (to Guinan) They don't have a clue as to what's out there.

guinan: They will learn. Adapt; that is their greatest advantage.

Q: They're moving faster than expected, further than they should.

Picard: By whose calculations?

Q: You judge yourselves by the pitiful adversaries you've encountered so far... the Romulans, the Klingons. They're nothing compared to what's waiting. Picard, you are about to enter a part of the galaxy containing wonders more incredible than you can possibly imagine. And terrors to freeze your soul. I offer myself as a guide, only to be rejected out of hand.

Riker: We'll just have to do the best we can without you (folds arms, smiles smugly)

Q: What justifies that smugness?

Picard: Not Smugness, not arrogance! But we are resolute, and we're resolute*, we're determined... and your help is not required.

Q: We'll just have to see how ready you are...

Guinan: Q!!!

*snap*

And what follows from that?

Is this preaching about the Federation, Starfleet or mankind?



* We're not smug - nor arrogant. We are resolute and we are willing. But more than that we are determined. Your help is not required.

[Prometheus Unbound]

* We're not smug - nor arrogant. We are resolute and we are willing. But more than that we are determined. Your help is not required.

you should watch the episode instead of taking scripts off the internet without checking first if that was the first draft or the shooting script My line is accurate.

and yes, this is Picard and Riker being smug over humanity and the stars. Q even calls them out on it. Picard says they can handle whatever is thrown at them. Q says "kek".

Remember his last line of the scene?

Con permiso, Capitan. The hall is rented, the orchestra engaged. It's now time to see if you can dance.





Your Farpoint children's quotes are all wrong, too.


Whatever site you are getting the transcripts from, they're not the shooting scripts. I'd stop using them.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Do you really think Q, who in the very first episode claimed to be judging humanity, and in the very last episode admits the trial never ended, will only be basing his actions on what Picard does and says in his presence?
[...] Perhaps I should have said preaching about humanity and how evolved they are now.

This argumentation is a little bit fishy.

As you argued yourself: Q put humanity on trial in the very first episode. It is only to be expected that Picard, defending humanity, points out how humanity has changed, how it has evolved. What else should he have done?

Yeah, he can show how humanity has changed, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that the way he doe this, especially in early TNG, is excessively smug, arrogant and preachy.

As for this: "Picard replied that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it." [...] Also what the fuck does "I don't know if we're prepared for thsi, but I know we're ready to face it" even mean?

To be honest: I do not really know what Picard means when he says that he does not know that they are prepared, but he does know that they are ready to confront it.

What is the difference between being ready and being prepared?

The implication is that Picard believes his ship and crew can handle anything thrown at them without any preparation or warning. And I'd say that's the difference betweent he two, being ready means you're good to go, being prepared is slightly more nuanced in hat you have, well, prepared, planned ahead, organised etc.

Also what the fuck does "I don't know if we're prepared for thsi, but I know we're ready to face it" even mean? Is he that arrogant about the abilities of his ship and crew and/or the human nature, that he will willingly pit them against anything in the galaxy, with no preparation and with hundreds of civilians, including children aboard?

As you seem not to know what he means, you can't really conclude that he means that the abilities of his ship and crew and/or the human nature is prepared for what awaits them. He is only saying that they are ready to confront it. Picard seems to think that there is a difference between being prepared and being ready.

AS I said above, the implication is that Picard thinks they are ready to confront things without preparing for them in advance. Which is a really arrogant opinion to hold.

Furthermore: It was not Picards decision to have families and children aboard:

SNIP LIST

The fact that it wasn't Picard's decision is, as you like to say, irrelevant. He is still willing to endanger them all. He doesn't even routinely separate the saucer section like the Galaxy-class is supposed to.

And as the Enterprise is a ship of Starfleet and has a crew not only consisting of humans - Picard's preaching about humanity would have no relevance. The Federation and Starfleet is not a homo sapiens club.

So why then does Picard, an officer of Starfleet and a true believer in the Federation, only ever mention humanity and mankind when talking about how "evolved" and "ready" they are in season 1 TNG? Do you start to see now why I call him arrogant and smug?

That alone is monumentally stupid.

What exactly is monumentally stupid?

To be arrogant about the abilities of ones ship and crew and/or the human nature?

Please show that Picard has really shown such arrogance.

To have children aboard?

That was not Picard's decision.

To willingly pit the ship against anything in the galaxy with no preparation.

Please show that Picard has willingly done this.

To willingly pit the ship with hundreds of civilians, including children aboard against anything in the galaxy.

Please show that Picard has willingly done this.

1. Well we have Picard's blanket declaration that the E-D is ready to face anything "out there" which, as Q claims, contains things far worse than anything they've faced before.
2. Having the children aboard, whether it's his decision 100% of the time, doesn't matter, as it's his decision when taking the ship into danger.
3. When has Picard pitted the ship against anything in the galaxy with no prep? "Where No One Has Gone Before." They get thrown all the way to Andromeda, and instead of immediately working to find a way home, Picard actually contemplates sticking around in a totally unknown galaxy, with no support, with hundreds of civilian and children aboard. Granted, that's in a galaxy, not the galaxy, but I think it counts.

And given Picard already saying he can't trust Q, that means he can't trust Q not to throw them to something awful just to spite Picard.

Are you arguing that Picard should have let Q join the crew of the Enterprise?

What should Picard have done in this situation?

Should he have expected to be thrown into mortal danger and - to prevent this - let Q join the crew?

It's always simple to judge a situation looking back at it knowing all that has happened.

I doubt that any captain of Starfleet would have trusted Q and would have allowed him to join the crew.

I really don't think it's an either/or here. It's not "let me join the crew or I throw you into danger" it was "I can help you" "We don't need you're healp we're ready for anything" "Oh really? Let's see then."

What should Picard have done? Be diplomatic, as he's supposed to be good at. Not reject Q is the smug way that he and Riker did.

Hence why I said Jellicoe would not have done that - he was far too much of a pragmatist to get into that situation.

What a stupid thing to say. It's not as Picard has choosen to get into such a situation or could have prevented it.

See above, Picard could have prevented it by not being an arrogant dick about it.

What do you think would Jellico have done in the very first episode if he had to defend mankind put on trial by Q?

What do you think would Jellico have done when Q offered Riker to join the Q-continuum?

What do you think would Jellico have done when Q - after all he has done already - asked to join his crew?

Do you really think that Jellico would have agreed that he needs Q since he is not prepared for what awaits him?

I'm not sure how Jellicoe would have handled the trial. But, based on how we see him act later, it would have been more careful, dare I say, more diplomatic than Picard? As for the rest, well, I suspect that had the trial gone differently Q may not have taken such an interest in the E-D. As for Riker and that mess, well, I doubt Jellicoe would have told Riker "you were right not to try" about saving that child.

Also, if Jellicoe were in command, Riker probably wouldn't be XO if "Chains of Command" is anything to go by.

Even Keogh was smart enough to evacuate the civilians from Odyssey when going into an unknown but potentially dangerous situation.

Picard was smart enough in the very first episode to separate the ship and go into a battle only with the battle section of his ship.

Keogh, not knowing anything about what awaits him, did not separated his ship and even wanted to go without support of the runabouts from DS9.

Keogh didn't have to separate the ship because he'd evac'd the civilians. As for the runabouts part, that is far more forgivable, since adding two runabouts to a Galaxy class is a meagre improvement at best. And, as noted, he'd already evac'd everyone he could.

Picard, yes, he separated the ship in that first episode. After that? He went into battle countless times with the saucer firmly attached, except for Best of Both Worlds where separating was a battle tactic, not a way to keep the civilians and children safe.

[WATCH-MAN]

Whatever site you are getting the transcripts from, they're not the shooting scripts. I'd stop using them.

Thank you for this tip - I have to check that.

[Tribble]

Oh it gets far worse than that.

Q threw the E-D to J-25, but he did not put them directly into danger. Picard did that himself by ignoring Guinan's warning to leave the area and head home. The E-D's encounter with the Borg could have still been avoided at that point had he been willing to listen.

Then Picard proceeded to do nothing after Q and Guinan warned him how dangerous the Borg were. Guinan and Q warned Picard that diplomacy wouldn't work, but he ignored them and tried to reason with the Borg even as the drone was clearly ignoring Picard and actively disrupting the E-D's systems. It's only when the ship is literally shaking and flashing that Picard decides to do something about it.

When the Borg Cube latches onto the E-D Picard again does nothing. It's only after they've knocked out the shields and ripped a chunk out of the saucer section that Picard decides to open fire! And does he use the opportunity to attempt a retreat? Of course not! Instead he beams over a crew over, despite Guinan warning him that staying around was suicidal.

It's only after the Picard discovers that the Borg Cube can regenerate, is now immune to their weapons, and can effortlessly keep up with the E-D that he realises just how screwed he is. And even then Q had to basically talk Picard into asking for help by telling him just how screwed he is.

To Picard's credit he did swallow his pride in the end and ask, but the damage had already been done. The Borg were now interested in the Federation and adapted to their weapons. Guinan warns Picard that Q had set events into motion and that the Borg would now be engaging the Federation far sooner than they would have.

The entire episode is Picard trying to prove that he's right and getting his ass handed to him at every turn. While other Starfleet captains may be preachy, arrogant and/or insane, I don't think any of them could have matched Picard's level of incompetence displayed here. In fact, in any sane universe he would have been court-martialled over this debacle, but I guess he had enough friends in high places to throw this incident under the rug. Or perhaps because he was somewhat of a celebrity amongst the AQ and every well known that Starfleet didn't want to risk the repercussions of publically court-martialling him.

Btw that's is one of the reasons why I like this episode a lot. It has John de Lancie and Whoopi Goldberg, introduces the Feds greatest enemy and puts early TNG Picard in his place. What more can you want?