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 Post subject: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-23 09:56am
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Good Morning, SDN!

As the title of this thread states, I've been playing with sketchup and decided to make a starship with it. It's just a rough model, with no texturing or much detail. That being said, I hope that you folks like the design and I welcome any suggestions on improving of both the model and my novice sketchup skills.

Forward View:

Image

Rear View:

Image

Dimensions:
Length: 1600 meters
Width (hull): 200 meters
Width (radiator wings): 560 meters
Height: 200 meters

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-23 10:24am
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The thin neck strikes me as an obvious flaw and weak point. Also I dislike the length of the barrels. Also for a Star Destroyer length ship it’s rather overly focused on its primary armament, I’d like to see them reduced in size with smaller guns added to provide a more rounded compliment.

Also what’s with the fins on the rear section? Radiators? Solar panels?

EDIT: Never mind, noticed you call them raditator wings!



Get busy living or get busy dying... unless there’s cake.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-23 10:52am
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Yeah, the neck is a weak point. It just screams 'fire at me!!'. At least that's my opinion. As for the guns, if that is an ISD sized ship, those are some BIG guns right there. Might be a good idea to scale them down. Then again, I've never modeled before, so take my comments as you will. :)



SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-23 04:43pm
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That's a nice start for a first time user of Sketchup. However, I do have a few suggestions:

-As mentioned by the others, try to maintain a sense of scale with the armament. A mile-long ship with guns that big will have serious recoil problems, unless those are lasers. And the guns will have serious aiming issues no matter what projectiles you use. Also, with the mounting, try adding hull to mount the rear ones above the forward ones with, it looks better.
-I like the design, but it does need a bit more structure to it. If you don't want to change the neck shape, you can do things like add in braces coming from the tapered ends.
-Right now your wings are single planes. I'd suggest making them into proper, detailed 3d structures. As they are radiators, you can put on things like fins and heat tubes. Try looking at images of existing industrial radiators for inspiration, or images of the ISV Venture Star, it has a very nice radiator setup.

Oh, and you might want to clean up the model a little bit. I can see at least ten redundant lines that don't need to be there.



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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-24 03:46pm
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Thanks for the input. I've made some changes and added details to the model.

Image

I've shortened the main guns by half their length. I also added bow-thrusters, secondary guns, and a retractable hanger-bay.

Image

I also made the radiator wings 3 dimensional and added ribbing to them. Finally, as per Imperal528's advice, I've added a superstructure to rest the super-firing turrets on.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:13pm
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Much better. Still not loving the neck, but if the ship has shields it works. I do like the radiator panels. And now that the guns are a more realistic size it works better. But they are still massive guns (lets face it, if the thing is ISD sized any recognizable guns in that position will be big). But I do like the looks, and the guns are intimidating at that size. Now personally I would say it is more in the corvette size range...maybe 400 meters? That is what I would call it any way, if I had guns that size compared to the rest of the ship. Again, good work and I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. And don't let my complaining about the guns get to you, I actually like them...I'm just tired and that makes my typing come out like that. :)



SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-25 10:50am
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People here like to make big stuff, and no mistake! It in no way looks like an improbably huge starship though, and is unlikely to unless you add an absolute ton of detail to it. Right now it looks like the start of a ship less than 100 meters long, and even then it needs more detail to start looking convincing.

We see a lot of beginners build very basic models and call them gargantuan colony ships lightyears in length, and no one thinks they're anything other than a couple of boxes. I think you'd be better off building something like a fighter or shuttle, small enough that you can practice making a model that will actually end up looking good with a modicum of detail. You'll feel better about it as it will look better and you'll maybe finish it, whereas making a ginormous blank ship does you no favours. Its great that you've taken up 3D work, it really will let you do amazing things when you get the hang of it, but I'd suggest walking before you run.



visit http://www.kennyscrap.com for all your crap model needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-25 04:48pm
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Skywalker_T-65 wrote:
Much better. Still not loving the neck, but if the ship has shields it works. I do like the radiator panels. And now that the guns are a more realistic size it works better. But they are still massive guns (lets face it, if the thing is ISD sized any recognizable guns in that position will be big). But I do like the looks, and the guns are intimidating at that size. Now personally I would say it is more in the corvette size range...maybe 400 meters? That is what I would call it any way, if I had guns that size compared to the rest of the ship. Again, good work and I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. And don't let my complaining about the guns get to you, I actually like them...I'm just tired and that makes my typing come out like that. :)


It's quite alright. I'm sorry if the neck bothers you, but I figured the crew would appreciate me keeping the main fusion drive as far from them as possible. Also, it provides room for the habitat module (the bar-bell thingy right behind the gun turrets) to fold down flush with the hull during acceleration or combat, I just haven't yet figured out how to model hinges for it yet.

I should explain that my ship is being designed with the assumption that neither energy shield or artificial gravity technology exist. Therefore the ship needs to use either spin or acceleration to simulate gravity for the crew.

For passive protection, the ship is armored similarly to a tank, with the best armor in the front. Active protection would be in the form of point defenses and ECM.

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:
People here like to make big stuff, and no mistake! It in no way looks like an improbably huge starship though, and is unlikely to unless you add an absolute ton of detail to it. Right now it looks like the start of a ship less than 100 meters long, and even then it needs more detail to start looking convincing.


As I'm learning, scale is more than just numbers. I'll see about trying to make the ship look as big as it actually is.

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:
We see a lot of beginners build very basic models and call them gargantuan colony ships lightyears in length, and no one thinks they're anything other than a couple of boxes. I think you'd be better off building something like a fighter or shuttle, small enough that you can practice making a model that will actually end up looking good with a modicum of detail. You'll feel better about it as it will look better and you'll maybe finish it, whereas making a ginormous blank ship does you no favours. Its great that you've taken up 3D work, it really will let you do amazing things when you get the hang of it, but I'd suggest walking before you run.


I'll definitely try making a fighter design, I actually have one sketched out on graph paper. However, this starship has been in my head for years, it's only now that I've been able to actually see it. It's been a lot of fun adding details to it.

Details like maneuvering thrusters and minor texturing from Sketchup's stock library.

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-25 04:56pm
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Quote:
It's quite alright. I'm sorry if the neck bothers you, but I figured the crew would appreciate me keeping the main fusion drive as far from them as possible. Also, it provides room for the habitat module (the bar-bell thingy right behind the gun turrets) to fold down flush with the hull during acceleration or combat, I just haven't yet figured out how to model hinges for it yet.


Okay then, now it makes sense. I just thought it was like the Nebulon-B in SW (where snapping the neck is a battle tactic). If it has a volatile reactor then having separation works. Or heck, even if the reactor gives off a lot of radiation. So that is what the bar-bell thing was...I thought it was sensors or something along those lines. But that may just be me scaling it down in my head. At ISD size I could see it being a habitat module. I like the color scheme. Now if we could detail the model more to keep with the size it would make me a happy camper. :) Looking forward to what you do next.



SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-25 05:07pm
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The next step is adding sensors, starting with phased-array radar-panels. Then I'll move on to putting VLS-style missile batteries along along the super-structure on the drive section.

Edit: The Hab module is about 220 meters tip to tip, which if rotated at about a 1.7 RPM would give the crew a workable .7-.75g without causing excessive nausea due to the Coriolis Effect. I should also note that the decks on the main hull are perpendicular to the direction of travel. It helps the think of the ship as almost like a mile-tall armored skyscraper.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 10:12am
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So here's some of my latest work detailing my ship.

Image
As you can probably see, I've added perpendicular firing missile tubes to the drive section. You can see them with more detail below.

Image
There are thirty batteries in the image, each with eight red-capped missile tubes. That totals to 240 missile tube on this side. There on three more sets of batteries on the drive section's super-structure, adding up to a total of 960 missile tubes.

Image
On the front, you can see bow maneuvering thrusters up close. The hexagon-shaped panels are phased-array Radar antennas.

Image

And finally, here's a view of the stern maneuvering thrusters.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 10:18am
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Great work here. The ship is really starting to come together now. I love the color scheme, and the missile tubes show it has more than just the massive frontal guns. You also gave it bow thrusters (I'd guess to slow it down), which very few modelers do. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing more of it.



SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 10:42am
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I like the changes and the colour scheme, although the neck still looks too vulnerable to me and breaks up the ships lines.

One thing I think is that the hanger would look more in place on the rear section than at the front where it is more vulnerable and in the way of the main guns. Also how many fighters are you intending for it to carry or is it just for shuttles as the hab unit isnt very large for a lot of crew to be running about.

As for the bow thrusters, I thought they were massive beam style weapons, I guess most sci fi doesnt bother with means to reduce your speed.



Get busy living or get busy dying... unless there’s cake.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 03:58pm
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Darth Tanner wrote:
One thing I think is that the hanger would look more in place on the rear section than at the front where it is more vulnerable and in the way of the main guns. Also how many fighters are you intending for it to carry or is it just for shuttles as the hab unit isnt very large for a lot of crew to be running about.



I put the hanger in the front because it keeps smallcraft as far away from the main drive as possible. As for the issue of vulnerability and blocking firing-arcs, the hanger can actually retract into the hull when the ship is in combat. The ship is a "battlecarrier", so I intend to have enough internal hanger-volume to fit a complement of 120-150 smallcraft of various types.

As for the hab modules, they may look small, but they have enough internal volume to house a 1000 people each with reasonable comfort. I know that 2000 people seems like a small crew for a ship of this size, but I assume a high degree of automation.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 04:35pm
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Make the neck a big heavy girder like Babylon 5's Hyperion cruiser or Cortez explorer ship at twice the width of the current neck. That might fix the perception it's too weak.



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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 04:47pm
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Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Make the neck a big heavy girder like Babylon 5's Hyperion cruiser or Cortez explorer ship at twice the width of the current neck. That might fix the perception it's too weak.


This. Keeping your radioactive power plant and engines separate from the crew is smart, but that connecting tube looks precariously thin. Bulking it up a tad would probably help a lot with that.



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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-27 10:56pm
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Since the connective structure between the front and rear sections of the ship seemed to be bothering people, I've redesigned it to look more "robust".

Image

And here's a look at how the redesign affects the ship's appearance as a whole.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 06:30am
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I like the new neck, much better. Perhaps have a mesh or girder like system covering it?

1,000 seems a lot of people to fit in those hab modules. If the entire ship is 1.6km and the hab pole is 220 in length total their not going to be much bigger than a small office block with a couple of floors, let alone all the support equipment those people will need.

The sides of the main section appear a bit bare, maybe have some broadside batteries on them?



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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 07:25am
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Darth Tanner wrote:
1,000 seems a lot of people to fit in those hab modules. If the entire ship is 1.6km and the hab pole is 220 in length total their not going to be much bigger than a small office block with a couple of floors, let alone all the support equipment those people will need.


Image

Well, the main body of the hab module is 20 meters tall. Assuming each story is 3 meters tall, that rounds to about 6 stories. It's also barely over 15 meters in radius. Some rough math tells me that you get a little over 14,000 cubic meters of volume. That should be more than enough space to house 1000 people, assuming each person gets 10 cubic meters of living space. . According to Atomic Rockets, 10 cubic meters is about the space you get in a sleeper train. Any left over space can be used for facilities like heads, showers, sickbays, messes, etc

Now those are still going to be close conditions, but nothing that exceeds what you would expect on a modern sea-going warship. And the vast majority of the crew only spends their off-duty hours in the hab modules. The ship's main working space is located inside the main hull itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 08:43am
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So here are a couple of pictures to illustrate how the rotor arms for the Hab modules are supposed to fold flush with the hull during acceleration and space combat.

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Image

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 02:47pm
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By curiosity, the guns... What are they ? Particle beam ? Coil- or rail-gun ? Something else ?

And the missiles, are they nuclear-tipped ?




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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 02:56pm
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I'm going to give some simple advice, ignore people. Be confident with your design and strive to do things differently. That is to say most people want things to be like things they know rather than new. If they have a specific thing they dislike do it your way and if you respect their opinion create a second save and show them a what if.

I say this because if people followed conventional wisdom the Enterprise would've been either a saucer or a rocket, rather than a mix of both.

And sometimes the other peoples opinion shows itself to be a decent idea and you will actually adopt it.

More generally I find that your design has a lot of bulk, and at the specific scale I have one problem with it, namely that at 1600m the crew of 2000 will take forever to get to anypoint in the hull to work.

Also slight hint from a sketchup user, the cylinders on the front of the ship can be integrated with the hull by right clicking them and going to intersect with model. It makes it easier to modify if you where to rotate/move the model and easier to paint and or export to another program.



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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-01-28 05:00pm
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Rabid wrote:
By curiosity, the guns... What are they ? Particle beam ? Coil- or rail-gun ? Something else ?

And the missiles, are they nuclear-tipped ?


The guns are Coil-guns. The missile tubes can hold a variety of munitions that included nukes.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-02-01 03:14pm
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So I took a break from working on the starship to make an aerospace fighter, and here's the result.


Image

Image

Image

Image

Not a whole lot of detail, but I did take time to model in a weapon's bay, complete with a rotary missile launcher.

Overall, I think it's a good start, though I'm sure there will be quite a few improvements done as I become more skilled with sketchup.

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 Post subject: Re: Varrus makes a starship. (56K at your own risk) PostPosted: 2012-02-01 03:30pm
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Hmm...that is an interesting fighter there. I take it the bump on top is the cockpit? I like the design so far, very sleek, with visible engines (one of my complaints about the TIE fighter...I like to see big powerful engines, namely since it makes it look more realistic). As for this design...I like how you modeled in a missile bay. Not much more to say since it is still a basic model, but I look forward to seeing more of it.



SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

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