Dragon Age II: What The Holy Fuck?!

[Havok]

Man, so did anyone else keep getting wasted on Normal? I mean, fuck I got capped on casual quite a few times.

Anyway, so I started a playthrough with a Mage to get the achievement and to make a few different decisions, but I figured, he lets check out Nightmare, that oughtta be a gas...

What the snot? I can't even get through the third wave of hurlocks. I'm not even going to imagine what the first Ogre is going to do to me.

Some other questions and thoughts:

What is the highest level you got to? I hit 28. Apparently you can get to 50, but I can't figure how the hell you can do that outside of using the exploit they patched.

I liked the end story, and it was one of the few games that I walked away from fully satisfied with how things went.

I saw the other thread and the complaining about how it went, but I liked the (intended or not) idea that what was going to happen was what was going to happen, and the ambiguousness of right and wrong. The mages all resort to blood magic, even in non extreme situations, and the Templars all persecute them for using blood magic, even before they actually do. It ends up proven that they pretty much all will use blood magic, so the Templars are almost proven correct, yet KCM herself is corrupted and uses blood magic. The Templars and mages all need to be oppressed basically.

I also enjoyed the characters. For example, Merill had a very Mulderish quality to her whereas she had a blind devotion to what she thought was the truth, and did herself great harm chasing it.

By about half way through my second playthrough, I finally started getting the way the game wants you to use tactics and complimentary powers and such, but playing on casual, not much more than AAAAAAAAAA is needed.

What is your favorite set up, main character wise? So far mine has been two handed warrior.

Any thoughts on where you want to see the third installment go? I think the set up is outstanding and allows for grand adventures in the upcoming games and DLC.

[S.L.Acker]

I played as a Mage and never really found the game to be all that hard. If anything I found it easier than the first game.

I enjoyed the game as well, though it could have done with some more variety in locations and enemies.

[Stark]

I'm pretty sure max level just requires multiple playthroughs.

[Havok]

I played as a Mage and never really found the game to be all that hard. If anything I found it easier than the first game.

Bull and shit. No way you played through on Hard or Nightmare and didn't get creamed.

I enjoyed the game as well, though it could have done with some more variety in locations and enemies.

This was my biggest complaint as well. The copy and paste nature of the cellars, warehouses, passageways and houses was shotty and amateurish, especial for a big time title. It also pulls you out of the game big time.

[Havok]

I'm pretty sure max level just requires multiple playthroughs.

Nope. Once the game ends, there is no more playing allowed. You can do the DLC if you haven't already, but if you finished all the quests like I have, all you can do is go to the Black Emporium (a DLC location) and your house.

You also can't start a new game with a previously leveled character unless I am seriously missing something.

[S.L.Acker]

I played as a Mage and never really found the game to be all that hard. If anything I found it easier than the first game.

Bull and shit. No way you played through on Hard or Nightmare and didn't get creamed.

I was referring to the first line where you asked if anybody else was getting wasted on normal. I was in the game for seeing where the story went instead of grinding through it on the hardest levels.

This was my biggest complaint as well. The copy and paste nature of the cellars, warehouses, passageways and houses was shotty and amateurish, especial for a big time title. It also pulls you out of the game big time.

I understand production schedules and cost cutting, but goddamn they got lazy. The problem could have been solved with better props in the areas. TV shows can make the same section of back lot look different from episode to episode with simple set dressing; why couldn't this game?

[Highlord Laan]

I enjoyed the game as well, though it could have done with some more variety in locations and enemies.

This was my biggest complaint as well. The copy and paste nature of the cellars, warehouses, passageways and houses was shotty and amateurish, especial for a big time title. It also pulls you out of the game big time.

Welcome to Gears of Dragon Duty. Have an AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwesome time.

[Stark]

Too bad nothing he said is anything like nerd whining?

You should learn the distinction between actual complaints and lameass 'I saw a GIF once' stuff.

Its pretty sad they often didn't even bother rotating stuff around; but this is Bioware, where you can do a single quest where every NPC is voiced by the same person. :V

[Havok]

I enjoyed the game as well, though it could have done with some more variety in locations and enemies.

This was my biggest complaint as well. The copy and paste nature of the cellars, warehouses, passageways and houses was shotty and amateurish, especial for a big time title. It also pulls you out of the game big time.

Welcome to Gears of Dragon Duty. Have an AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwesome time.

What are you babbling about? I don't mind the A button, especially since it is for the basic attack only and you have three other attack buttons. I mean, how else do people propose to attack? A cycling pattern of buttons?
And last time I checked Gears didn't have any repeating rooms at all.

[Stark]

He's butthurt because the combat in DA2 is 'dumbed down' for 'console babies', and he's referring to a butthurt nerd animated gif that suggests that hitting a button to attack is in some way terrible.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you liked the combat, because it involves doing stuff.

[Vendetta]

Pressing A to attack is too much like the demon exercise for fatnerds.

Besides, didn't you know that combat can't be tactical if you actually have to personally control any aspect of it.

[S.L.Acker]

Pressing A to attack is too much like the demon exercise for fatnerds.

Besides, didn't you know that combat can't be tactical if you actually have to personally control any aspect of it.

I don't get the great PC versus console debate. I played DA:Origins on Xbox and DA:II on PC and honestly both control schemes are fairly equal as far as I'm concerned. I prefer to use a controller for shooters these days just because it's what I've used more, but I can do that on a computer. That said there is something be said for the simplicity of a console and not needing to fiddle with graphics settings or drivers to get a game working. I also have an older TV so unlike with my laptop I can flop down on the couch and play console games which is something I can't currently do on my computer.

[Stark]

That's probably because you're not elitist. Imagine, being concerned with what's fun rather than what's sophisticated or advanced or clever according to the Internet! It's funny becuase the LOTR choppy game received similar criticism, and it has a very MMO combat system and is thus more sophisticated than most SP RPGs.

Of course, DA2's actual flaws have nothing to do with consoles being 'bad', because they're simply the results of Bioware's management.

[S.L.Acker]

I wish game developers had even an ounce of the passion they used to have back when it was a small group of guys working on something that might never even get finished. I enjoy the level of detail and graphic brilliance as much as the next guy, but when the games that really try to do something new fail to get sequels because they don't fit with what people expect... I recently another play through of Alpha Protocol before lending it to a buddy and I would have been all over a follow up title done in the same style. I just finished a first play through of Heavy Rain and for the flaws it has it is still an amazing demonstration of how much a game can draw you in if it's done well. Sadly Call of Battlefield: Eight - which will likely make for some fun hours of mindless multiplayer fun - will eventually be made, with barely an iterative change, and people who want more will be stuck sifting through to find the few real gems.

[Shinova]

You're getting creamed on normal? When I upped the level to nightmare I tried actually playing tactically and found it actually easier than when I first played the game on normal. By this point the game's just not challenging at all unless you're on nightmare.

[Sycrus]

I just finished the game on Hard (on PC) with a two-handed warrior (did you also have trouble to find any good weapons for your main character on Act 2?).

I had no problems with most encounters, but those particularly though ones, starting on Act 2, and in the DLCs, really gave me some beatings. Many times I had to rethink strategies, or even leave some quests for later, to avoid getting wiped out. However, eventually, I managed to get through even the most troublesome bonus bosses.

It's funny how, when playing DA2, I miss things from DAO and, when playing DAO, I miss things from DA2. In general, I liked the mechanics of DAO better. Also, the uninspired interface and lack of flavor text in DA2 makes it look like unfinished. But I loved the plot, the characters and the fully dubbed main character in DA2. What I really, really, completely despised about DA2 was how they changed the darkspawn. The hurlocks look more like shambling zombies under some Haste spell, and the genlocks look like monkeys. I REALLY could live without that.

For DA3, I'd like to see some closure for both the stories of the Warden and the Champion. BioWare has announced that the game will draw from the "finer points" of both games, which seems like a good thing to me, depending on WHAT BioWare will consider the "finer" points.

The first time I finished DA2, I was really contrariated. I wasn't expecting the ending so soon, and it ending in such a HUGE cliffhanger was too much for me. It looked like everything in the game was just a prelude, and only then that the real fun was to start... except that the game was over, of course. Finishing the game again now, I already knew not to be surprised, and found the ending more satisfying, though.

[Havok]

The design of the game as well as anything in the gameplay is pretty inconsequential as they establish very definitively that everything is from the perspective of Verrick. That gives the design team leeway to use what worked best or what the fans liked from the second installment in any future games. The only thing that isn't from the perspective of Verrick is what he and the Seekers look like.

I doubt this was intentional, but it is there.

Honestly, I can't remember the gameplay differences from Origins and DA2, which was why I downloaded it again. Unfortunately, it's now on my old 360 and I don't have my big harddrive on my new one yet, so I will have to wait to compare.

As far as story... DA2 I felt was superior in the fact that it wasn't the standard "Save the World/Kingdom, with the hero of destiny." and because it dealt with some very interesting in world issues. (religion, oppression, politics, corruption, discrimination) Now the fact that it dropped the ball with how they actually handled those issues is a negative, but at least they tried to be original.

Contrast this with Fable III that literally had the "The Dark Unknown Evil from the Far Off Land of Brown People", and I think they hit a homerun and set a higher standard of storytelling starting points, even, again, if they dropped the ball with the way they handled some of it.

[Havok]

The Alpha Protocol Factor would have been a nice addition to this game.

If you would have had the option to actually ally with the Qunari, and even join the Kun, that would have been sweet.
If you could have secretly been subverting the Templars the whole game so that when the final conflict happened, Merideth had no power base that would have been sweet.
If you could have been double agenting the Mages the entire time so that when the final conflict happened, you could have just stabbed Orsino in the back, that would have been sweet.
If you could have hired the Tal Vasoth instead of fighting them and been able to use them against X, that would have been sweet.

If you could get different advantages, equipment, magic from different alliances, that would have been sweet.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I saw the other thread and the complaining about how it went, but I liked the (intended or not) idea that what was going to happen was what was going to happen, and the ambiguousness of right and wrong. The mages all resort to blood magic, even in non extreme situations, and the Templars all persecute them for using blood magic, even before they actually do. It ends up proven that they pretty much all will use blood magic, so the Templars are almost proven correct, yet KCM herself is corrupted and uses blood magic. The Templars and mages all need to be oppressed basically.

See, I thought it was handled very poorly.

A) You literally can wipe the floor with the templars if they challenge you, and you control the city guard. So, why not install yourself as viscount and deal with Merideath that way

B) What the fuck, Orsino. You won. Why resort to blood magic and kill the people trying to help you? It was fucking ridiculous. I mean, I can understand WHY someone would use blood magic given what was going on. The templars fulfilled their own prophecy there, driving the mages to it. However, there were plenty of mages in DA1 who used blood magic and did not turn into abominations, and were not even evil. So why the abomination toggle switch?

[Havok]

Ghetto Edit:
If you could have installed Orsino as Viscount and established Kirkwall as a Mage controlled city and safe haven for Mages, that would have been sweet.
If you could have installed Merideth as Viscount and established Kirkwall as homebase to new group/offshoot of the Templars that seeks the complete extermination of mages and magic, that would have been sweet.
If you could have installed the Arishok as the Viscount and established a new Qunari foothold in the Free Marches, that would have been sweet.
If you could have installed yourself as Viscount and your own rules and order in Kirkwall, that would have been sweet.

[Havok]

I saw the other thread and the complaining about how it went, but I liked the (intended or not) idea that what was going to happen was what was going to happen, and the ambiguousness of right and wrong. The mages all resort to blood magic, even in non extreme situations, and the Templars all persecute them for using blood magic, even before they actually do. It ends up proven that they pretty much all will use blood magic, so the Templars are almost proven correct, yet KCM herself is corrupted and uses blood magic. The Templars and mages all need to be oppressed basically.

See, I thought it was handled very poorly.

Your quoting skills suck.

A) You literally can wipe the floor with the templars if they challenge you, and you control the city guard. So, why not install yourself as viscount and deal with Merideath that way

Well you would have to throw out all the traditions of Kirkwall and ignore the will and wishes of her people and the nobles to do this. Even Merideth didn't do this, which should tell you something.

B) What the fuck, Orsino. You won. Why resort to blood magic and kill the people trying to help you? It was fucking ridiculous. I mean, I can understand WHY someone would use blood magic given what was going on. The templars fulfilled their own prophecy there, driving the mages to it. However, there were plenty of mages in DA1 who used blood magic and did not turn into abominations, and were not even evil. So why the abomination toggle switch?

This is the bad part of the story, but it is, unfortunately and stupidly, explained in the codex that Kirkwall and any of it's magic users, because of location, is susceptible to demons and dark magic, whether they are mages or just Templars.

I forgot the specifics, but it is something that should have been explored and shown, not something that is written about in an obscure text.

[SylasGaunt]

B) What the fuck, Orsino. You won. Why resort to blood magic and kill the people trying to help you? It was fucking ridiculous. I mean, I can understand WHY someone would use blood magic given what was going on. The templars fulfilled their own prophecy there, driving the mages to it. However, there were plenty of mages in DA1 who used blood magic and did not turn into abominations, and were not even evil. So why the abomination toggle switch?

It was way exaggerated with Orsino yeah. There is mention in some of the codex stuff that basically so much horrible shit has happened in Kirkwall that it's loads easier for BAD SHIT to happen when you do blood magic. A little build up to what happened with Orsino would have been nice though.

[Sycrus]

As far as story... DA2 I felt was superior in the fact that it wasn't the standard "Save the World/Kingdom, with the hero of destiny." and because it dealt with some very interesting in world issues. (religion, oppression, politics, corruption, discrimination) Now the fact that it dropped the ball with how they actually handled those issues is a negative, but at least they tried to be original.

As far as plots go, I think the plot of DAO works well as a way to establish the setting for the series for the first time. Yes, it's rather cliché, but it works, for that purpose. I like the fact that they moved on to more personal, political and ideological plotlines starting with DA2. I agree that they could have handled it better, but at least they got a load of interesting issues to use for DA3, from both games. Here's to hoping that they don't waste such a perfect oportunity.

As for Orsino's stupidity, I think that could be chalked up more to desperation than anything. Remember that they hadn't won already. On the contrary, there was still an army of templars out there and, from Orsino's viewpoint, the only thing he could look up for in the future was continued battles against even more templars, possibly an "Exalted March". At this point, he was probably suffering from levels of frustration and grief comparable to the ones that led the Arishok to finally attack Kirkwall. Also, he wasn't the "nice guy" he painted himself as, anyway. He wouldn't even know how to turn himself into some Harvester if he hadn't protected and cooperated with Quentin, the serial killer.

Also, there's worse stupid in this game, anyway. Sister/Mother Petrice and her buddy Ser Varnell are probably better contenders for the title of most stupid in the whole game, but I'd say that Thrask and Grace take the cake. After spending years doing the impossible, making templars and mages work together and all, they threw it all away by unecessarily hostilizing the Champion. First by taking a hostage, and then by atacking Hawke on sight. This being Act 3, after Hawke has already established a well-deserved reputation for being someone you DON'T want to mess with. Seriously, I can't imagine HOW they could have thought that plan could have worked at all.

[Havok]

As for Orsino's stupidity, I think that could be chalked up more to desperation than anything. Remember that they hadn't won already. On the contrary, there was still an army of templars out there and, from Orsino's viewpoint, the only thing he could look up for in the future was continued battles against even more templars, possibly an "Exalted March". At this point, he was probably suffering from levels of frustration and grief comparable to the ones that led the Arishok to finally attack Kirkwall. Also, he wasn't the "nice guy" he painted himself as, anyway. He wouldn't even know how to turn himself into some Harvester if he hadn't protected and cooperated with Quentin, the serial killer.

The difference between the Arishok and Orsino is that the Arishok sacrificed nothing to do what he did, and actually held steadfast to his beliefs and what his people and religion stood for.
Orsino sacrificed EVERYTHING that he spent basically his entire life preaching, teaching and trying to convey to the world at large. He undid it all.

On top of that, the Arishok was still the Arishok, while Orsino would forever be an abomination, win or lose. He not only gave up and sacrificed the lives of every mage in Kirkwall, but he effectively committed suicide in the process.

This is why the second act was far superior to the third, and end game act.

Also, there's worse stupid in this game, anyway. Sister/Mother Petrice and her buddy Ser Varnell are probably better contenders for the title of most stupid in the whole game, but I'd say that Thrask and Grace take the cake. After spending years doing the impossible, making templars and mages work together and all, they threw it all away by unecessarily hostilizing the Champion. First by taking a hostage, and then by atacking Hawke on sight. This being Act 3, after Hawke has already established a well-deserved reputation for being someone you DON'T want to mess with. Seriously, I can't imagine HOW they could have thought that plan could have worked at all.

In the case of Thrask and Grace, neither of them knew who was being kidnapped and if you look at it though, it is the Mages in the instance of the kidnapping quest that attack the Champion and do not allow for a peaceful solution each time the option come up. (It's almost as if the writers have something against wizards. )

Petrice feels that she is protected by her status and the head cleric chick. I actually liked her involvement as it shows religious people as they are.
"I am devout to my God who is real, therefore I am righteous and justified, while these other people are heathens that are devout to their god that doesn't really exist."
It may be a dumb point of view and course of action, but it is a very real one.

[Vendetta]

B) What the fuck, Orsino. You won. Why resort to blood magic and kill the people trying to help you? It was fucking ridiculous. I mean, I can understand WHY someone would use blood magic given what was going on. The templars fulfilled their own prophecy there, driving the mages to it. However, there were plenty of mages in DA1 who used blood magic and did not turn into abominations, and were not even evil. So why the abomination toggle switch?

On the other hand, I don't think there were any instances in DA1 of people having Blood Magic go well for them. Even the ones that didn't turn into abominations themselves usually caused some other catastrophic and highly avoidable instance of demon shenanigans.

The whole "Woe is us for we are so oppressed" from mages is so hollow in Dragon Age given that they literally will turn into a demon and kill everyone at the drop of a hat.

The qunari have the right idea.