RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoilerISH

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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Spoiler
If things stay 'on-track' - and I really, really think that there's good reason to doubt they will once we go all Mark Twain-1632-Back To The Future-ju jitsu all over Westeros' face - then Jaime will still refuse to become the head of his house as he'll remain Lord-Commander of the Kingsguard. Kevan has the best chance of ending up as Lord of Casterly Rock (I assume), but the Lannister who holds the most influence in the wake of Tywin's death is Cersei, the crazy incompetent bitch. I'd rather spend the 5 years hiding out as a surprisingly tall and well-inoculated dishwasher in the Arbor than try to play power-games with her as my mistress. (And since she becomes queen about three years in (I think?), ie, by the time that rifles will be coming into production, she might just be able to use those to put the Tyrells under her crazy-ass thumbs and remain in power).

The thing to remember is that this isn't an SD.Net in LotR power-play. We're only there for 5 years, tops, and the only goal is to not come home with the memory of getting hung, flayed, drawn, quartered, stabbed, decapitated, defenestrated, burned, maimed, starved, or infected. Somehow, consorting with the most ruthless, murderous house that's balls-deep in the coming civil war and is filled with fucking insane people whose fates include happy endings like being imprisoned, crossbowed, fed to a bear, poisoned, poisoned and raised as a zombie monster, poisoned and rendered a lame monk, de-handed, de-eared, de-nosed and tried for regicide, etcetera, doesn't seem like the smartest way to get out alive.

This is why the Martells are really the best option, now that I think about it. It's a sleepy kingdom far from any of the current conflicts, where I can gain comfort and luxury from the Prince without causing too many ripples outside of Dorne. Doran's schemes are of the very slow-burning variety, and he himself is reasonable and genteel. Only, like, one person has died in all of Dorne so far in all of the books (this is a very important point for me), and he has a power-base and a use for me. And there are delicious blood oranges, which makes it an easy sell. Maybe I can wheedle some very minor land-holdings and a lordship out of the deal I make with him, whereupon I will retire to my tiny castle somewhere in the Dornish highlands and wait the whole dance with dragons out while I eat my figs and blood oranges and live like Howard Hughes, if Howard Hughes had sex with the most disease-free commonfolk from time to time because he was living in a high fantasy storybook and that made him lonely and creepy and weird.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Thanas »

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:Spoiler
If things stay 'on-track' - and I really, really think that there's good reason to doubt they will once we go all Mark Twain-1632-Back To The Future-ju jitsu all over Westeros' face - then Jaime will still refuse to become the head of his house as he'll remain Lord-Commander of the Kingsguard. Kevan has the best chance of ending up as Lord of Casterly Rock (I assume), but the Lannister who holds the most influence in the wake of Tywin's death is Cersei, the crazy incompetent bitch. I'd rather spend the 5 years hiding out as a surprisingly tall and well-inoculated dishwasher in the Arbor than try to play power-games with her as my mistress. (And since she becomes queen about three years in (I think?), ie, by the time that rifles will be coming into production, she might just be able to use those to put the Tyrells under her crazy-ass thumbs and remain in power).
Spoiler
Then you assume that Tywinn will still get killed, curious considering your previous post. And Cersei surely does not have influence over casterly rock, notice how Kevan leaves in a snit.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Spoiler
I'm not assuming anything. My argument is that we absolutely cannot rely on Joffrey being assassinated as he was in the books, and if he isn't the whole kingdom is fucked, and even if he is because things stay true to the books for some reason then you're still left in a bad situation since your patron will die by the same token and the Queen Regent is a madwoman. You're the one who came up with the argument that things will happen by the book, not me. And if they don't, the most probable case is the strengthening of Joffrey's hold on the throne if you support him.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Thanas »

Spoiler
Which will affect my survival how, exactly, especially if one does not set foot out of Casterly Rock?
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Mr Bean »

Thanas wrote:Spoiler
Which will affect my survival how, exactly, especially if one does not set foot out of Casterly Rock?
Spoiler
You think Tywin will let you stay under the rock? Or the new King Jof?You'll get pulled out from under there and set along with the army to ensure your weapons work in battle or the new King will call you to King's Landing to set up new works there. How well do you think refusing the King's command is going to do for your heath? They'll want you in King's landing sooner or later to set up local production facilities for your new weaponry. You forgot how much of a personal touch is popular in Westeros. Shit don't get done unless it's done in person.

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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Setzer »

Spoiler
If it came down to a dispute between Tywin and Joffrey, Tywin would come out on top. If Joffrey wants you to come to court, and Tywin realizes it's better to keep his gunsmith in a safe place, you won't have to set foot in King's Landing.

Kevan was Tywin's right hand man. If you offer your services to Tywin, Kevan will learn of it soon enough, and he's smart enough to realize how useful the inventor would be. I think a man who can support a few hundred knights can also afford to hire a few dozen craftsmen to help build weapons.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Kingmaker »

In this scenario, is it acceptable for me to spawn in King's Landing and then catch the first ship to the Five Cities? Or do I actually need to survive the duration in Westeros itself?
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Thanas wrote:Spoiler
Which will affect my survival how, exactly, especially if one does not set foot out of Casterly Rock?
Spoiler
I'm just saying that the Lannisters are dangerous people, they do dangerous things, they have dangerous enemies, and within a couple of years of the start of the book most of them are imprisoned, exiled, maimed or dead. Associating with them is dangerous. If it's just survival we're worried about, associating with them is foolish. Besides, even if Joffrey wasn't going to execute you for some imagined offense, there's also a moral dimension to the issue of selling guns to the villains of the story. Joffrey's a monster, and so are many of his bannermen. Even if Tywin isn't going to get gat, this is a man who sacked King's Landing and murdered infants for his own political gain. This does not pre-dispose me to working for him.

Let me turn this around: what do the Martells lack as patrons compared to the Lannisters, as far as guaranteeing my/your/our/whoever's survival?
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by The_Saint »

Am I the only one who would head for the Vale? (and await certain events from later books).

Alternatively I'm just as likely to spend my $6k on some new thermals and head to the wall... why? ... why the hell not!


Selling my knowledge of botany, geology, hydraulics and other miscellaneous engineering to the Maesters then hot-footing it overland to House Martell is Plan B.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Faqa »

I take everything necessary to create guns, obviously, along with knowledge of hygeine, some cheap walkie-talkies and a proverbial shitload of batteries. Can I bring someone? If so, I am bringing a doctor with me. Otherwise, try to scribble down basic medical knowledge - how to patch up a wound, etc. Communication, gunpowder and medical knowledge - anything that could be helpful to a warring army.

Who do I bring all this to? An unconventional choice - Stannis.

Why? Several reasons:
Spoiler
- He's the only contender for the throne that has actual magic at his command. Because the gunsmith of Casterly Rock might just have his name ring out over the kingdom - which includes Melisandra's ear. I think staying on the good side of the one power I don't understand and can't protect myself against is maybe a good thing.

- Stannis came very close to winning. One bird to Edmure, and one warning based on my knowledge of Tyrion's actions and he has King's Landing.

- He and Tywin are two of the best soldiers in the series. If anyone can bend the power of gunpowder to his advantage, it's him.

- Unlike Tywin, he is loyal - no matter what happens, if I do right by him, he'll do right by me.

- A small, almost inconsequential matter - I really do think he'd be the best ruler of the contenders. Because Tyrion's idea of the good of the realm is "Whatever benefits House Lannister", ultimately. Dany(and Martell, by extension) doesn't have an idea beyond "I am blood of the dragon". And the Tyrells, Queen of Thorns aside, are idiots. The Starks? Riiiiiiiiight. Stannis knows his duty, and will stick to it.

I think he can win and I think he can and will keep me alive while doing so. As a bonus, I can try to figure out what the shit is up with Melisandra's magic. Maybe it's something the real world can use?
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Spoiler
That's not a bad plan, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. Will Dragonstone really have the facilities or resources for gunsmithing? And even if Tyrion's boom is evaded, that just means that the fleet will have to delay beyond the bay, which means Tyrell re-inforcements will probably still win the day for the Lannisters, which means that you'll either be taking an improvised sea journey to the Wall, or holding up in the siege of Drahonstone. Besides, will Melissandre tolerate a second fire-sorceror on her island, advising her king with his own, much less vague prophecies of things to come? She has a habit of getting people on her bad side killed horrifically, and I wouldn't want to trust in her forbearance.

And I believe that Stannis is part and parcel of the idea that just because a man is just, does not mean that he will be a good king, but that's a debate for another day. He's better than most of the contenders, I'll give you that.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Faqa »

Spoiler
Why wouldn't she, if I'm helpful to Stannis? Remember, she's as pure as he is in the sense that she has no interests of her own - only the interest of getting her Prince That Was Promised into power. So long as I don't make him doubt her, of course, but as an all-knowing prophet, why would I?

As for the battle of King's Landing, if Edmure doesn't stop Tyrion Lannister from going west, he never meets up with Loras and therefore there ARE no Tyrell reinforcements. And really, if half of Stannis's army isn't busy burning up on the Blackwater, it might not even matter.

This does leave Tyrell as a big wildcard, I must admit. But they'll go with the winning side.

Resources on Dragonstone are a moot point - Stannis doesn't need guns to take the throne, only to help him keep it, and THEN he will have the Seven Kingdoms at his command. Really, the medical knowledge and communications, while they last, are much more important("We've cleared the booby traps. Move in the fleet").

I'm not really sure where the idea comes that the schemers are the best leaders. The best people at keeping power, maybe.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Thanas »

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:Let me turn this around: what do the Martells lack as patrons compared to the Lannisters, as far as guaranteeing my/your/our/whoever's survival?
Political will and an impregnable fortress to live in. Casterly Rock has never been taken and unlike the Eyrie (sp?), actually has a good chance of winning a war for the defending side.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Faqa »

Huh? Dorian Martell has a LOT of political will, he's just playing a much longer game than the Lannisters.

Now while it's true that Dorne has been taken, you'd need someone to bother to go to war for it. Buried deep in the south, why would they? Do you think Doran's going to take your guns and march on the other six kingdoms? That would be utterly not in keeping with his character. You stand a fairly good chance of being able to sit out the war there.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Thanas »

Faqa wrote:Huh? Dorian Martell has a LOT of political will, he's just playing a much longer game than the Lannisters.
So far, he has been shown utterly reluctant to go to war. Also, there is the whole Targaryen thing and Dorne is a great landing spot when Daenerys comes up. Tywinn Lannister OTOH is a known quantity.

I would join Daenerys if I thought it might not get me assassinated, though. The Unsullied are perfect soldiers to recreate the tercio formation with.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by DrMckay »

Yeah, I think I'd go for Dorne too. Spoiler
It's very southerly, isolated and far away from the white walkers, Iron Islands, and Lannisters. While Dorne doesn't have the largest population, it seems to be solidly behind princes Oberyn and Doran, and the Royals have their heads screwed on pretty straight. i think they'd definitely appreciate advanced medical, chemical and military knowledge, (in order to secure their borders and broker power.) Also, tohelp the Targaryens get back on the throne.

Doran seems to have thought many permutations through, and is capable of planning in the long term, while adjusting for the short term, while Littlefinger basically only thrives on chaos. Too, the Red Viper might appreciate a modern sniper/hunting rifle or two, as he struck me as pragmatic over honorable. I would bring a couple of those as court gifts, along with meds for Doran's gout (which may make him more active and grateful to me,) and books on other treatment methods, as well as how to manufacture penicillin and sulfa drugs. Among the books would be records of Saladin's tactics, as well as engineering books on the formulation of gunpowder, factory mechanics, artillery, and arbequses, and flintlocks. With any luck, I survive the five years as a favorite of the Dornish court, and put them in a position to get revenge on the Lannisters for Elia's death through explosive and shooty means.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Rogue 9 »

My objective is survival, but I also have principles. To that end, I gather survival supplies and the necessaries for semi-modern weaponsmithing and go straight to Eddard Stark to warn him of Cersei's treachery. If he's inclined to give me a fair shake, I arrange to have Cersei and Jamie caught in the act in the tower, causing her imprisonment and/or execution, thereby saving Robert Baratheon (and Bran Stark in the bargain), preventing the civil war, stopping the ruination of the harvest just in time for winter, and keeping the Stark power base strong and ready to aid the Wall when the Others inevitably move south with the snows. Having done this, I move south, away from the Iron Islands and the Wall, and stay the hell out of politics for the remainder of my time.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Mr Bean »

Rogue 9 wrote: Having done this, I move south, away from the Iron Islands and the Wall, and stay the hell out of politics for the remainder of my time.
You seriously think Tywin will let you live? Eddard Stark is one of the most honest men in the world and you've seriously damaged the rep of House Lannister meaning Tywin will want your head on a spike. It might be safer to run through the streets of King's Landing while proclaiming the Seven are a lie whilst wearing lots of gold.

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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by FaxModem1 »

Now, the Maesters are an order of people concerned about advancing knowledge, correct? How long does being under their tutelage take and what all is required to join? It wouldn't seem that bad to spend five years in a medieval university, maybe teach them a thing or two if I bring enough books.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Mr Bean »

FaxModem1 wrote:Now, the Maesters are an order of people concerned about advancing knowledge, correct? How long does being under their tutelage take and what all is required to join? It wouldn't seem that bad to spend five years in a medieval university, maybe teach them a thing or two if I bring enough books.
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Technically anyone can simply show up and ask to become a Maester, your a novice until you show mastery in one subject (Spend weeks, months, years with one of the subject matter experts learning all possible from them then ask to test and they quiz you over an hour or two on your master of the subject, pass and you get a link in your Maesters chain) once you achieve mastery in a subject you get a link in your chain and your now an acolyte until you forge enough links in your chain to form a full masters chain (I'm guessing there is some magic number of the average number to get a full chain around one's throat. Some of the links seem to be "soft' subjects and can be studied and completed under a month while others require more. The Maesters seem to do a mix of one on one or one on a few classes and broad based lectures where as many people as can be packed in can come to hear the lecture.

Does it cost anything? I'd assume so but it's never priced, except I do believe you have to pay for quarters within the citadel and such quarters cost money to rent but the citadel itself is free to attend or some such.

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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by KrauserKrauser »

Well, I've only read up to half way through Storm of Swords so I don't know everything that happens in the story but to name it a success I would include the following conditions:

The following people must live:
Robert Baratheon
Eddard Stark
Khal Drogo

The following people must die:
Cersei Lannister
Jaime Lannister
Joffrey Lannister
Tywin Lannister
Gregor Clegane
The Hound

Saving Khal Drogo is most easily done by somehow convincing Robert to not send the assassin to kill Danerys. Without the assassin, Drogo never commits to gain the Iron Throne and the chain of events that follows never happens. Assuming Viserys still gets his golden crown, she is largely removed from the picture and more than likely the dragons are never hatched.

Saving Robert keeps Renly and Stannis out of the picture and maintains the realm for the most part. It also makes keeping Ned Stark alive alot easier.

The list of dead people is just my list of sociopaths that need to be removed.

Easiest way to accomplish this is to somehow gain the trust of Ned Stark in Winterfell before the king arrives and then catch Jaime and Cersei in the act in the tower. With those two gone, Tywin may in fact rebel but it would be the realm united against him versus a fractured realm fighting amongst the kingdoms. Placing a video camera in the tower to record them in the act would be a high tech way of doing it but accusations of witchcraft might merit simply posting some really quiet disguised guards in the room to really catch them in the act. Keep Bran occupied with a pistol or something to keep him from climbing the tower.

If I had to kill just one, it would be Joffrey. That fucking psychopath needs to be put down ASAP. A great place to kill him if you can't catch Jaime and Cersei fornicating in Winterfell and prove his abomination incestuous byproduct status would be to hide in a tree stand across the river from where Arya and the butcher's boy are sword fighting with a rifle (.22LR for lower noise but still quite lethal headshots) and just cap is crazy ass when he starts swinging the sword and then hightail it out of there on a dirt bike.

Living in one of the mentioned but never sacked cities is the easy way but actually getting rid of some of the many, many psycho killers that run rampant in the books would be more than worth my time. Keeping Robert alive is the number 1 priority as he is the key to maintaining the integrity of the seven kingdoms.

Some other technology that could be introduced given the Seven Kingdoms technology levels (Assuming you are successful at eliminating Cersei/Jaime/Joffrey and avoid the Tywin debt repayment):
Printing Press
Steel Plow
Wine Grafting Techniques
Germ Theory
Ship building & Navigation (Hull Design, Sextant, Compass)
Steam Power
Champagne
Flush Toilets
Whiskey
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Setzer »

Heh, introduce new types of booze and Robert Baratheon will throw gold at anything else you care to invent.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

The Hound is one of the people you need to eliminate? Shit, after Ned Stark dies he's probably the most knightly guy in King's Landing.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Beowulf »

Why are people going on about selling technology? Good steel is easier to sell, and cheap here, while monstrously expensive there.A couple grand in steel will probably easily set you up for the 5 years worth of time you need to survive. Probably be well more than the capacity of the cart, for that matter.
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Re: RAR! Survive 5 years in Westeros (Game of Thrones)spoile

Post by Eframepilot »

KrauserKrauser wrote: The following people must live:
Robert Baratheon
Eddard Stark
Khal Drogo
Save Drogo? Bad, bad idea. The dragons might never hatch and the world would be doomed. I would avoid any interference in Dany's chain of events, at least until she hatches her dragons.
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