The Clone Wars Season 3 discussion thread.

[Srelex]

Well, SW was partially based on mythology in the first place, no? I suppose Lucas might be seeing this as an attempt to make up for midichlorians.

[Thanas]

Well, SW was partially based on mythology in the first place, no? I suppose Lucas might be seeing this as an attempt to make up for midichlorians.

Small problem here though - the force has never been shown to have some sort of emissaries or incarnations before. It is a mystic power which is shown as having little power by itself, but only through its users. And here it pulls people into another dimension? Eh?

And if you have it become more of a mythology and you want this to be about the Jedi and only about the Jedi, then by god, at least make a good one. LotR is good mythology. This one was just bland. And to just pull people out of your behind whose powers eclipse everybody else we have ever seen....no. Just no. The witches being actual witches was bad enough, but this takes the cake.

[Vympel]

Small problem here though - the force has never been shown to have some sort of emissaries or incarnations before.

Who cares about that? You can say " well that has never been shown" to pretty much every addition to the canon ever.

It is a mystic power which is shown as having little power by itself, but only through its users. And here it pulls people into another dimension? Eh?

And if you have it become more of a mythology and you want this to be about the Jedi and only about the Jedi, then by god, at least make a good one. LotR is good mythology. This one was just bland. And to just pull people out of your behind whose powers eclipse everybody else we have ever seen....no. Just no. The witches being actual witches was bad enough, but this takes the cake.

Well, to each their own. I always found LotR's "mythology" tedious, convoluted and overwrought. Whether you like or don't like these developments depends on what preconceptions you have about the series. I personally have none that make me react badly to this, not, after one episode in a trilogy, that I have much of a clue what "this" is yet, to be honest.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Small problem here though - the force has never been shown to have some sort of emissaries or incarnations before. It is a mystic power which is shown as having little power by itself, but only through its users. And here it pulls people into another dimension? Eh?

And if you have it become more of a mythology and you want this to be about the Jedi and only about the Jedi, then by god, at least make a good one. LotR is good mythology. This one was just bland. And to just pull people out of your behind whose powers eclipse everybody else we have ever seen....no. Just no. The witches being actual witches was bad enough, but this takes the cake.

Say what? Going by the first episode the 'Mortis Realm' is a collective vision given to the group using this structure a conduit for the Force to make it's intentions know. The Force has as far as I can remember always had a will of it's own and whilst it can't take actions on it's own it can nudge people in the direction it wants through the use of vision, 'The Will of the Force' and all that. It is not yet set in stone whether these are actual avatars of the Force or just representations created for the purpose of interacting with Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka.

[Thanas]

Say what? Going by the first episode the 'Mortis Realm' is a collective vision given to the group using this structure a conduit for the Force to make it's intentions know.

Really now? Visions by the force are blurry and not that well-defined. All the presentation here actually indicates that this is an actually existing realm.

The Force has as far as I can remember always had a will of it's own and whilst it can't take actions on it's own it can nudge people in the direction it wants through the use of vision, 'The Will of the Force' and all that.

Vision does not equal messing with the nav computers, pulling a ship into another dimension etc. If this were a vision, why would the clone troopers experience it? Why would there be such an old Jedi code used to communicate with the temple and get them there?

Who cares about that? You can say " well that has never been shown" to pretty much every addition to the canon ever.

Sure, but there are things that are based on previous existing canon (like the Imperial civil war) and things just coming out of left field, like people pulling feats that nobody else could.

Well, to each their own. I always found LotR's "mythology" tedious, convoluted and overwrought. Whether you like or don't like these developments depends on what preconceptions you have about the series. I personally have none that make me react badly to this, not, after one episode in a trilogy, that I have much of a clue what "this" is yet, to be honest.

I had the preconception that it would not descend into mythical mumbo-jumbo entirely, something reinforced by the fact that the first seasons did not feature anything like this at all.

[Srelex]

Saw it. Weird, but intriguing--gives the show some variety.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Really now? Visions by the force are blurry and not that well-defined. All the presentation here actually indicates that this is an actually existing realm.

It depends on the person really and where they are, a Jedi or Sith in a Force nexus had an easier time doing so.

Vision does not equal messing with the nav computers, pulling a ship into another dimension etc. If this were a vision, why would the clone troopers experience it? Why would there be such an old Jedi code used to communicate with the temple and get them there?

So you forgot the giant foreign ship? And the troopers aren't experiencing it, for all we know that ship is from the Celestials and is using some never before seen spatial distortion abilities, it's not like that's out their power since they created the Maw.

[Thanas]

Really now? Visions by the force are blurry and not that well-defined. All the presentation here actually indicates that this is an actually existing realm.

It depends on the person really and where they are, a Jedi or Sith in a Force nexus had an easier time doing so.

Even if we allow for this possibility, this assumes the user is able to fool three of the most powerful force users in existence simultaneously. Heck, not even Palpatine was capable of such an illusion. So if this was an illusion, wanktastic. If not, even worse as shutting of lightsabers by touching them is something no force user was capable of.

So you forgot the giant foreign ship? And the troopers aren't experiencing it, for all we know that ship is from the Celestials and is using some never before seen spatial distortion abilities, it's not like that's out their power since they created the Maw.

Yeah, right, the celestials. What did they ever have to do with the force and why would they, with their great technological prowess, care? And what evidence is there to suggest they are celestials?

And never mind that if this is technology, they are wanked beyond belief. It is the typical wankage coming out of left field.

[Murazor]

Yeah, right, the celestials. What did they ever have to do with the force and why would they, with their great technological prowess, care? And what evidence is there to suggest they are celestials?

No evidence whatsoever, but makes for an interesting bit of speculation.

That said, the Celestials were apparently the ones who sealed that pseudo-Lovecraftian Dark Side entity that seems to be responsible for darksiders going mad.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Even if we allow for this possibility, this assumes the user is able to fool three of the most powerful force users in existence simultaneously. Heck, not even Palpatine was capable of such an illusion. So if this was an illusion, wanktastic. If not, even worse as shutting of lightsabers by touching them is something no force user was capable of.

Where did I say this was an individual? You keep forgetting that the Force is an entity unto itself. They've stated that what is going to happen is going to be up to interpretation, which sends the signal that what we're seeing may not actually be what is occurring.

Yeah, right, the celestials. What did they ever have to do with the force and why would they, with their great technological prowess, care? And what evidence is there to suggest they are celestials?

Let's see, magical abilities to disrupt the fabric of space and create what appears to be an entire pocket dimension in defined area of space, yep, sounds like the Celestials.

Both of us are working entirely on conjecture, since the episode arc isn't finished yet and it hasn't really been explained. The difference is, you're taking everything at face value when there's no reason to do so. Especially given that it hasn't yet been explained what sent the group into unconsciousness and landed the ship. It's equally likely that they're just in an advanced Force induced trance

And never mind that if this is technology, they are wanked beyond belief. It is the typical wankage coming out of left field.

You do realize that the Celestials are said to have obtained all the knowledge of the Universe, right?

[Knife]

Hmm, watch this online so I'm always behind you guys; however, about fucking time. Where the hell was this story line 14 fucking episodes ago? I mean, it's not winning any super duper script writing awards, but infinitely better than the rest of this season has been.

[Tychu]

I just saw Altar of Mortis and I have to say, I don't understand what Lucas and Company are planning on doing. At first it seemed that Lucas was setting up a link to Episode III.

Then I saw the preview for next weeks episode.... Spoiler

If this is all a vision for Anakin, then surely he would have prevented this in episode III. He sees himself fighting Obi-Wan on Mustafar, sees himself choking Padme.

Nothing that happens in The Clone Wars seems to have any bearing on Episode III or its characters. Is this all one big waste of time to watch it?

[Srelex]

I'm warming up to this arc more and more--genuinely intrigued to see what happens next week.

That being said, I've a feeling there might be some sort of copout with memory erasure or something.

[Adam Reynolds]

Nothing that happens in The Clone Wars seems to have any bearing on Episode III or its characters. Is this all one big waste of time to watch it?

Probably, the creators of this series seem to care very little for continuity with other stories.

[Vympel]

Commentary for this episode and the preview for the end of this 3-episode arc are on SW.com now. Filoni outright says that these three episodes should be considered as entirely taking place within something equivalent to the cave/tree on Dagobah, where Luke had his vision of fighting Vader.

If this is all a vision for Anakin, then surely he would have prevented this in episode III.

Just like he prevented Padme dying whilst Obi-Wan watched, like he saw in his vision in Episode III itself?

Nothing that happens in The Clone Wars seems to have any bearing on Episode III or its characters. Is this all one big waste of time to watch it?

You're going from a snippet of a scene in the next episode with no context at all and no idea how the vision ends. Jeez, wait to watch it before deciding it has no bearing on Episode 3.

Probably, the creators of this series seem to care very little for continuity with other stories.

That would be the EU, and of course they don't care. There's nothing in the show's plot that expressly contradicts the films.

[Adam Reynolds]

There's nothing in the show's plot that expressly contradicts the films.

While that it true it does expressly contradict the novelization for ROTS. In three episodes Grievous and Obi-Wan locked blades: Destroy Malevolence, Grievous Intrigue and ARC troopers. In addition, Anakin and Obi Wan have fought Magnaguards in Duel of the Droids and Grievous Intrigue.
This is despite the following passages from the novelization:

Anakin said softly, "I saw an Intel report on this; I think they are Grievous's personal bodyguard droids. Prototypes built from his specifications." He looked from Obi-Wan to Palpatine and back again. "To fight Jedi."

During the fight with Grievous there is a second rather long passage on pages 293-294 where Obi-Wan and Mace Windu discuss how Obi-Wan is the ideal Jedi to fight Grievous due to his lightsaber style being the purely defensive style. Mace recounts his duel with Grievous depicted in Labyrinth of Evil. Why would they have this discussion if Obi-Wan and Grievous had previously fought? Especially given that Grieovous was able to escape all three times that he and Obi-Wan had fought previously. In addition, why would the Jedi Council rely on Obi-Wan to face Grievous when he had failed previously?

While both of these elements are EU references, does that make this novelization non-canon? Because the same argument could be used against the ICS books, especially the AOTC and ROTS ones.

[The Romulan Republic]

Rather, it would make those specific parts of the show non-canon, as I'm fairly sure the Novelization out-ranks the show.

Its not nessissarily a contradiction that they'd send Obi-wan to fight even though he'd lost before, however. I mean, its not like anyone else could take Grevious, so maybe he was still the best bet.

[Vympel]

While both of these elements are EU references, does that make this novelization non-canon?

Of course not. You don't throw out an entire source simply because of one thing that's contradicted later. Facts in the Holocron are listed by data point, not by source.

[Adam Reynolds]

Rather, it would make those specific parts of the show non-canon, as I'm fairly sure the Novelization out-ranks the show.

Which is exactly my point.

Its not nessissarily a contradiction that they'd send Obi-wan to fight even though he'd lost before, however. I mean, its not like anyone else could take Grevious, so maybe he was still the best bet.

It would be illogical for the Jedi to only send Obi-Wan if Grievous had previously fought him to a stalemate.

Of course not. You don't throw out an entire source simply because of one thing that's contradicted later. Facts in the Holocron are listed by data point, not by source.

But the novelization is supposed to be at a higher canon status than any of the EU.

Admittedly the fact that they were able to ignore continuity did make for some interesting stories, I particularly liked the Boba Fett arc despite the fact that it contradicted earlier stories. Despite this I would consider this series to be a holodrama in universe, similar to the more canon elements of the tales series.

[Ryag Han]

i don't see what's wrong with the Clone Wars. its really an interesting and exciting story. the fact is, it is not EU. it was created by Lucas himself, remember? when two sources come into conflict, novelization vs CW, i for one take the Clone Wars. agree, the novelization is C cannon, but its almost on the same status with the series. the movies are the ones that outranks all.
now,say, since in the clone wars anakin obviously fought the MagnaGuard before, despite his statement in the novelization, isn't it safe to say that at THAT PARTICULAR POINT, it is either wrong or not exact?

[Force Lord]

I recognize that foul stench...

[The Romulan Republic]

I recognize that foul stench...

Excellent. Hope they don't mess it up.

[TC Pilot]

Who wants to bet he'll have an "if only we had a planet-destroying death ray..." moment?

[Srelex]

If they know their stuff, they'll have him suggest landing a spaceship on the opposition as a solution.

[Thanas]

Commentary for this episode and the preview for the end of this 3-episode arc are on SW.com now. Filoni outright says that these three episodes should be considered as entirely taking place within something equivalent to the cave/tree on Dagobah, where Luke had his vision of fighting Vader.

Have you got a link? Because this is a bit illogical - happening to all three of them?