Possible tactic against the Death Star?

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Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby AngelKnight » 2010-12-05 12:23am

Ok I have a POSSIBLE tactic against the Death Star and it goes like this: The scenario is that the Death Star is heading to some planet and the local Imperial forces (the Empire is in a civil war) are going to attack it. The Flagship of the Imperial forces is a Eclipse-class dreadnought. If the flagship fired its superlaser at the dish area shields creating a hole in them and a ISD were to fly straight towards (this is if it survives the turbolaser barrage) and just as its about to ram into the main cannon it jumps to hyperspace, ramming into the main cannon creating chaos in the firing tube. Now if say about 30% of the ship were to have been clogged in the firing tube and the death star fired its main cannon and hit the ship wreckage inside the tube would it explode and MAYBE cause significant damage that the superlaser is not operational. Would this be possible?

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Note: this is my FIRST post on this website. Anyones comments would be appreciated but if you have nothing positive or useful to say dont say it. :D

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Vympel » 2010-12-05 07:27am

This has nothing to do with Star Trek, so moved to PSW.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Serafina » 2010-12-05 08:17am

Note: this is my FIRST post on this website. Anyones comments would be appreciated but if you have nothing positive or useful to say dont say it.
Bzzt - do NOT do that on this website. While you are certianly right to ask for useful comments, you are WRONG to even try and discourage negative comments.

And of course the Death Star can be destroyed or at least stopped with sufficient firepower. However, even another Death Star is unlikey to survive a hit by a Death Star blast (given that it can blow up shielded planets). Hitting the dish is certainly a good way of disabling it's strongest weapon, but it still carries a lot of fighters and is armed to the teeth with other weapons, while being a substantial base for enemy operations even of the superlaser is disabled.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2010-12-05 08:36am

Although from his idea the Death Str just got rammed in the dish by an ISD at hyperdrive speeds. I think that's going to do a little more than just block up the main gun. If nothing else I imagine there would be significant shock damage to many systems. And most likely the shields over that area would be down and most of the guns knocked out ( I recall Wong used a similar idea in his Conquest story), leaving it open to bombardment or another Eclipse shot, which would hurt a lot
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2010-12-05 01:26pm

Serafina wrote:And of course the Death Star can be destroyed or at least stopped with sufficient firepower. However, even another Death Star is unlikey to survive a hit by a Death Star blast (given that it can blow up shielded planets). Hitting the dish is certainly a good way of disabling it's strongest weapon, but it still carries a lot of fighters and is armed to the teeth with other weapons, while being a substantial base for enemy operations even of the superlaser is disabled.

There is also the fact that the there is a good chance the Death Star's shields are too strong for the Eclipse to penetrate, given that it is stated to only be able to sear continents which would be below the minimum energy required to penetrate planetary shields as well as presumably the Death Star's shields.

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby AngelKnight » 2010-12-05 03:34pm

The Eclipse's superlaser was capable of slashing through any planetary shield to crack open a planets crust and sear entire continental land-masses. And the Eclipse's superlaser has to my vast SW knowledge NEVER been fired at full power. :twisted:

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Connor MacLeod » 2010-12-05 07:09pm

the DS superlaser is, by all accounts, not what we could call a "fast tracking" weapon. Despite its ability to target starships, I should point out that most SW warships tend not to move around in combat very fast, or make sudden moves (and combat ranges tend to be fairly short anyhow) so I wouldn't read too much into the tracking ability per se (being able to track doesnt mean its always effective.) What you have is a weapon that is made from lots of little component beams, which are required to line up precisely and meat at a certain, fixed point, and maintain that focus for a short but noticable period of time before the planet is blown up. That means alot of precision is required to create and maintain the beam, making it (relatively speaking) a somewhat fragile process. Disrupting the alignment of one or more beams, or its ability to track and focus, is likely to at least cripple the weapon, if not fuck ig up catastrophically.

The question then becomes, howveer, how vulnerable to damage those mechanisms are, however.

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Raxmei » 2010-12-05 08:29pm

This plan of attack is at its essence to fire your most powerful weapons at the most obvious target. While this is certainly a valid plan the enemy could not possibly have failed to anticipate it. Step one of the plan is to get the better of a slugging match with the biggest stick in the galaxy. Once you have taken down the shields of the most heavily defended ship in the galaxy, and yes some very large and heavily armed ships will be necessary to do that, its main weapon will be a likely target of attack by whatever means you have at your disposal. The main problem is the Death Star wants to engage your fleet in open battle and the surface area of a small moon covered in turbolasers will likely start the battle by concentrating fire on your largest ship carrying the only weapon that poses a threat to it.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2010-12-06 01:36am

AngelKnight wrote:The Eclipse's superlaser was capable of slashing through any planetary shield to crack open a planets crust and sear entire continental land-masses. And the Eclipse's superlaser has to my vast SW knowledge NEVER been fired at full power. :twisted:

The problem is that the minimum energy required to destroy a planet is much less than the energy required to penetrate planetary shields given that Alderaan's shield was able to resist the Death Star's blast for a fraction of a second. If the Eclipse can penetrate planetary shields, then it can almost certainly destroy planets; it is impossible for it to be able to penetrate shields and not overcome the gravitational binding energy of a planet. See here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... Beam2.html bottom of the page.

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby adam_grif » 2010-12-06 05:37am

The problem is that the minimum energy required to destroy a planet is much less than the energy required to penetrate planetary shields given that Alderaan's shield was able to resist the Death Star's blast for a fraction of a second. If the Eclipse can penetrate planetary shields, then it can almost certainly destroy planets; it is impossible for it to be able to penetrate shields and not overcome the gravitational binding energy of a planet.


... or shields don't operate such that one joule must be output by the reactor for each joule that the laser fires. Shield physics are entirely unknown. If the eclipse could penetrate planetary shields but could not destroy a planet, this would be the obvious explanation - that it's not just a matter of firepower, that the DS was not purely DET or that the Eclipse was especially effective at penetrating shields for whatever reason.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Darth Hoth » 2010-12-06 05:52am

It might also depend upon the shield; logically, not all of them are going to be created equal. Alderaan, being an important Core World and a Sector capital, probably sported a high-end array. If I recall correctly, there was some mention in the X-Wing books of the Lusankya (Executor-class Super Star Destroyer) beating down a weak planetary shield, locally, at least.

In the original sourcebook that introduced Eclipse's superlaser, it talked about using a technobabble cheat ("decoupled neutrino charge" or something like that) to pierce the shields by magic shieldbreakers. Personally, I like to disregard that, given how nonsensical it sounds, but I am not aware of it having been officially ret-conned out.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2010-12-06 12:08pm

Actually, the [i]Lusankya[/] blasted it's way OUT of Coruscant's shields, both layers of them, after vaping a skyhook just to be evil and then trading broadsides with a Golan station.

But, the key point there, the dreadnought blew through [i]two[/] layers of what are apprently the best shields in the galaxy. Obviously they are less effective stopping stuff going out than in but it's still an impressive feat
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Maxentius » 2010-12-06 01:50pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:But, the key point there, the dreadnought blew through two layers of what are apprently the best shields in the galaxy. Obviously they are less effective stopping stuff going out than in but it's still an impressive feat


I haven't posted here in some time, and it's been even longer since I've read the X-Wing novels -- but I seem to recall that the shields were actually lowered for the Lusankya because the NR didn't want to deal with the catastrophic fallout of a Star Dreadnaught exploding inside the shields or starting to indiscriminately fire on the surface. In short, they let her go because the other alternative was having an Executor sitting pretty inside Coruscant's shield barriers.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Crazedwraith » 2010-12-06 01:58pm

Maxentius wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:But, the key point there, the dreadnought blew through two layers of what are apprently the best shields in the galaxy. Obviously they are less effective stopping stuff going out than in but it's still an impressive feat


I haven't posted here in some time, and it's been even longer since I've read the X-Wing novels -- but I seem to recall that the shields were actually lowered for the Lusankya because the NR didn't want to deal with the catastrophic fallout of a Star Dreadnaught exploding inside the shields or starting to indiscriminately fire on the surface. In short, they let her go because the other alternative was having an Executor sitting pretty inside Coruscant's shield barriers.[/quote

Just read the relevant section and there's no suggestion that this happens. It mentions twenty seconds of constant fire 'opened a hole' in the lower shield.


You may be getting confused with Star By Star, where Courscant's defences are lowered rather than let civilians ship to smash right into them.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Maxentius » 2010-12-06 02:09pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Just read the relevant section and there's no suggestion that this happens. It mentions twenty seconds of constant fire 'opened a hole' in the lower shield.

You may be getting confused with Star By Star, where Courscant's defences are lowered rather than let civilians ship to smash right into them.


That very well could be -- so my mistake, in that case.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby AngelKnight » 2010-12-06 03:07pm

Wow… I feel like I'm a third-rate Star Wars Fan here.

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby bz249 » 2010-12-06 03:55pm

Anyway: do we know what the Death Star can do using conventional weapons only? AFAIK the original DS should be able to deal with any reasonable sized starfleet, so I guess it should have pretty impressive shielding and defensive weaponary. Judging the size and power generation ability also tells a similar thing. So knocking out the main gun may not be enough to mission kill it. At least there should be a very limited amount of planets which could withstand a bombardment from the DS turbolasers.

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2010-12-06 06:20pm

I believe the ststs from the "Essential guide to Vehicles and Vessels" which may be out of date right now was 10,000 heavy turbolasers. May have been other guns but that was the number that stuck
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Omeganian » 2010-12-07 01:50am

Adamskywalker007 wrote:
Serafina wrote:And of course the Death Star can be destroyed or at least stopped with sufficient firepower. However, even another Death Star is unlikey to survive a hit by a Death Star blast (given that it can blow up shielded planets). Hitting the dish is certainly a good way of disabling it's strongest weapon, but it still carries a lot of fighters and is armed to the teeth with other weapons, while being a substantial base for enemy operations even of the superlaser is disabled.

There is also the fact that the there is a good chance the Death Star's shields are too strong for the Eclipse to penetrate, given that it is stated to only be able to sear continents which would be below the minimum energy required to penetrate planetary shields as well as presumably the Death Star's shields.


The distance between Alderaan and DS during the planet's destruction is often stated to be around 100 000 km. With most of the 10^38 joules released into space, it should have been impacted with something like 2*10^31 joules - without anyone on the station so much as knocked down. I would say the Eclipse penetrating the shields is, indeed, no guarantee.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:The problem is that the minimum energy required to destroy a planet is much less than the energy required to penetrate planetary shields given that Alderaan's shield was able to resist the Death Star's blast for a fraction of a second.


Not certain. SW beam weapons seem to have an invisible component, which is sometimes separate. In Alderaan's case, there was a secondary explosion, probably from that very component (the first explosion, for all we know, could be just the upper levels vaporizing) - and if we don't assume the invisible part carried most of the energy, we should assume (from the percentage of the visible beam absorbed) that the DS wasn't built with so much as a 100% overkill against existing shields - and no one will design an Ultimate Weapon that way. It must, after all, be capable of defeating not only existing shields, but any possible upgrades caused by its threat.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Darth Hoth » 2010-12-10 12:14pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Actually, the [i]Lusankya[/] blasted it's way OUT of Coruscant's shields, both layers of them, after vaping a skyhook just to be evil and then trading broadsides with a Golan station.

But, the key point there, the dreadnought blew through [i]two[/] layers of what are apprently the best shields in the galaxy. Obviously they are less effective stopping stuff going out than in but it's still an impressive feat


I seem to recall there being a note about the shields having been weakened by the previous battle, and/or poorly repaired afterwards? Or was that just rationalisation by online fans?
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2010-12-10 12:53pm

In the previos battle to take control of Coruscant, they create a stupendous lightening storm which does something to the generators and brings down the shields,

So they may well be weaker, and poorly repaired, but were clearly operational. And IIRC they were expected to be able to hold the SSD in

So I think that might be a rationalisation by online fans. But then again, Stackpole's books do seem to massively under-rate the ships available (case in point, they storm into Coruscant with at best two ISD's and three Mon Cal heavy ships, plus lighters ships. They are opposed by the Golan pltforms and two ISD's, Triumph and Monarch. The defenes were deliberately weakened by Isard by Ackbar is stated as having expected twice as many ISD's facing him

4 ISD's to hold Coruscant? what the hell was this guy thinking?
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Knife » 2010-12-10 12:55pm

If the quote is as stated, 20 seconds of fire might be 20 seconds of bombardment on shield generator sites on the surface instead of the shield itself. It would actually be more logical to attack the shield system itself for a localized failure than pump all that energy into the shield to drop it. Especially since they should know where those sites are.
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2010-12-10 01:02pm

Good point.

Although, IIRC, the book describes turbolaser fire splashing across the shields
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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Knife » 2010-12-10 01:05pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Good point.

Although, IIRC, the book describes turbolaser fire splashing across the shields


Could be both.

Might want to clear the skies of stuff ahead of you, skyhooks, defense stations, air craft, and why not splash the shields with dorsal guns? Mean while ventral batteries are wreaking havoc on ground installations.

Edit: because I'm bored, I'm going to go find that in the book (I think I have it) and post the quote here.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Re: Possible tactic against the Death Star?

Postby Knife » 2010-12-10 01:26pm

The Krytos Trap pg 323-324 wrote:With the prow stabbing up into the sky, the Lusankya's thrusters ignited. Searing blue plasma vaporized huge chunks of cityscape beneath the hip's aft end. The destroyer began to move forward and upward out of the column of smoke that marked its birth. A ship that boasts a crew of over a quarter of a million individuals mush have killed ten times that many lifting off.

The massive ship turned its attention on a skyhook floating off its starboard bow. Altering course slightly, the ship gave more of its turbolasers and ion cannons a chance to bear. A Super Star Destroyer possessed enough weaponry to reduce a city to rubble from an orbital assault. At point blank range, the weaponless skyhook offered the gunners a deliciously easy target.

The turbolaser batteries in the bow started firing at the skyhook as they came into range, then the broadside assault shifted to other weapons as the ship slid past. The verdant laser-bolts came so fast and so close that the whole sheets of energy seemed to pulse from the Lusankya to the skyhook. In seconds what had once been an elegant disk with an Ithorian jungle paradise at its heart became a melted demilune with a forest fire crashing into the mountain district's towers.

As the Lusankya picked up speed, the gunners shifted their aimpoints and began firing at the upper atmosphere. Their shots hit and splashed color into the lower of the two shield spheres encasing the planet. Created to stop starhip assaults from without, they proved just as powerful against an attack from within. Even so, after twenty seconds of the Lusankya's withering barrage, a hole opened in the lower shield.


So looks like they didn't fire on ground stations at all. Although, it would also seem like she used her light or medium guns on targets of opportunity until it was ready to open her main guns on the shield. Hard to mesh with TESB though, since another SSD and its escorts couldn't smash the rebel theater shield, which should be less than a planetary shield, while the Lusankya could do it alone in 20 seconds.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red


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