Right, and how was this conclusion reached? At what point did he compare his autistic creativity with his non autistic creativity?

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"Now let us be clear, my friends. The fruits of our science that you receive and the many millions of benefits that justify them, are a gift. Be grateful. Or be silent." -Modified Quote

No. On the other hand the sheer productivity of such people is not to be scoffed at. Most people with autism you wont even know are there. They may just be a little eccentric.



Or you can make it so that people who have the condition can answer phones and hold down jobs. It is not a dichotomous choice, and you completely ignored the bit about how a "cure" would basically kill the person being "cured"

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GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Herpetology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences

There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Your intellect really is singular. He didn't say it would, he just said that he would gladly trade his creativity for functionality - though he didn't say that the cure would actually do things to creativity. He just said that he wanted to get a cure, even if (IF) it had side-effects in changing his current persona. IF. It was a fucking expression, a figure of speech, a goddamn metaphor, he wasn't quantifying shit or graphs or whatever the fuck have you. Stop being an argumentative misconstruing nitpricking prick, go quantify your vaporizing asteroids somewhere else.

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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Prove this or GTFO.

or

Aly presents philosphy as fact.

If a candidate does a personality test that reveals they are insular, antisocial, have a low stress threshold and obvious stress reactions, trouble multi-tasking, trouble forming genuine relationships, difficulty understanding the motives behind people's actions or the games people play with tactics and motives, this will seriously degrade the odds of them being hired.

Saying 'don't discriminate because they're autistic' is meaningless in this context.

Well, we now rocket straight into the make-shit-up phase of the ranting. 'Once twice', when of course Google proves otherwise. Anxiety is inability, never able to be overcome by self-discipline, therapy, and coping mechanisms. Two paychecks! He thinks he's a-okay! He should get any job, regardless of how well suited!

Really, why bother replying? You're just lying at this point, making up whatever reassures you you're in the right in your bizarre rantings. Throw in your ignorance to BRFSS(If you think answering the phone is awkward: Cold call people, accept their abuse, and oh yea, ask 60 year olds if they've ever done anal.).

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

does someone want to explain this 'I don't want to destroy me' thing? People change all the time, you are not the same person at 30 you were at 20, and so forth. While I agree that people should get to choose, when do we say that the inability to handle reality, the inability to change to adapt to situations, the inability to function at a basic level, is a disorder and needs to be treated.

Opps, wanted to add; wasn't there a study about how really smart people lead shitty lives socially? I vaguely remember something about it, so correct me if I'm wrong. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that I'd rather let the new Newton or new Tesla lead a better life than have him have a shitty one and come up with apple powered death rays.

But I love apple-powered death rays!

More seriously: That statement is a vast overstatement. Kind of like 'anxiety means you can't do it'. I did say it once, but since then a skilled colonoscopy team found my head. What is more concerning to me is: Your brain is set up one way. This magic pill remakes it into normal. At best, your earlier memories, formed in such a different mindset, are going to seem alien.

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

That happens anyway. Do anything dumb in highschool? You'll be reminiscing and thinking 'whoa, was I really that dumb' for decades.

Stark beat me to it, but yes you already do that. You are not the same person you were when you were 5, 10, 15, etc... You just are not. Your brain functions differently, you go through different moral and psychosocial models. You think differently and comprehend differently.

And yes, I'll be disappointed if someone doesn't sig my apple powered death ray bit.

In a realm of the purely theoretical, if there was no change to who I am and how I think, I might. But now we're arguing about magic wands, aren't we? There's no such thing as a medical treatment with no side effects(See my boobs.).

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

Its actually arguable that the desire for things to stay the same and comfortable is actually a very autistic attitude; the fear of change and desire to maintain a status quo was certainly the source of much of my anxiety when I was a kid. It was when I learned to look beyond that that I started to have a normal life, and thus immediately became a different person - a better person.

No. I am presenting basic neuroscience as fact. Autism is a complicated neurological condition, not an on-off switch. You change one character, you change others, because your entire brain is interconnected. It is not like depression, where there is a problem with serotonin regulation (though this is also true for autism, it is a symptom IIRC, not a cause). When you start fucking around with an already developed brain... somehow, nevermind how you will actually do it, you change things other than the condition you are "treating". There is no real way to predict what these things will be, given that our knowledge of the brains inner workings are as limited as it is.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1155568-overview

Those changes, in multiple parts of the brain--the brain being the sum total of who and what you are as a human being--will lead to a different person. It is like lobotomizing someone and claiming they are the same, only without the horribleness of severing the frontal lobe from everything else.



You change, not because the fundamental architecture of your brain changes past a certain age, but because you lay down additional memories and genes coding for certain neurotransmitters get up or down regulated and thus change the way you react to stimuli (mood regulation etc).

Autism is an abnormality in everything from the limbic system to speech and face recognition. Way the hell a different matter to start messing with that. One can get better through cognitive therapy, to recognize certain behaviors are irrational etc, but the issue is still there, and you cant get rid of everything. I have worked long and hard to be as socially functional as I am. I meditate sometimes to calm my nerves etc. It never gets me over issues like social anxiety, but it allows me to function. You add on, you reroute, you re-regulate, you learn how to recognize faces and names and you deal with the symptoms, but the underlying root cause never goes away.



I think they should have the choice. My intellect for example is a large part of how I define myself, and what makes my life worth living. Why would I change this when I am more or less content with the tradeoff?

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GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Herpetology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences

There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

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"Opps, wanted to add; wasn't there a study about how really smart people lead shitty lives socially? I vaguely remember something about it, so correct me if I'm wrong. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that I'd rather let the new Newton or new Tesla lead a better life than have him have a shitty one and come up with apple powered death rays."
-Knife, in here

Sort of true, side effects and adverse effects do happen. Then again, in life shit happens all the time. To be able to choose, you would have to be told and understand not only what they would do (cure) but also how it would affect you, or might affect you. Listen to any of those silly bonner pill commercials for the fast and weird side effect list at the end. That said, people are silly about what side effects they will tolerate. Give them a med to do X, and the side effect is dizziness, or sedation and they're usually ok with it. Give them a med that fixes serious problem Y but causes gas... screw that man, I ain't taking that. It makes my belly hurt.

I'm not making fun of your concerns, they are legitimate. That said, anxiety over change is something that should be addressed in any treatment modality, we even treat that with more meds in a lot of situations. However; if and when it gets to the point that that anxiety is interfering with your life to the point where it is adversely affecting it, we usually consider that a disorder.

On a side note, people can learn with anxiety, mild anxiety actually helps the learning process, moderate anxiety can learn as well, though usually not the best of learning. It's severe and panic that learning can't happen. Not that you may or may not be any of those, just want to correct the facts.

The blurb you linked to is identical to the SS Disability policy if there is a widely availiable and non-risky cure, IRC. So if it happened before I get a liver(And thus go back to work), I might well find myself in that situation.

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

Don't be silly, new pathways are changing the hard ware of your mind, and you do that as you develop through childhood into adulthood up to around age 25-ish. One could also argue that plaque and tangles that develop in Alzheimers also 'changes who you are' and represents 50-80% of all dementia cases. I don't doubt for a moment that we would highly encourage a 'cure' for those fundamental changes in brain architecture, even though people suffering from dementia don't realize they have it and probably wouldn't choose to 'cure' themselves.



You're validating your hard work through the effort, and if you 'cured' yourself all that hard work would be meaningless. Understandable, but if it inhibits normal functioning, it's a disorder in and of itself.



Of course they should have a choice goober. However, it is not that rare of a thing for people to obsess and focus on one personality trait to use as a crutch and as a shield for their problems. It is their choice, but it is the job of health care, and as society as a whole, to encourage them not to and join the rest of us.

Edited for clarity.

Is an outright 'cure' for adults even vaguely likely (without radical invasive neurosurgery)? Everything I have read about potential autism cures relates to brain development in babies and children. Also the assumption that curing autism (in an adult) will automatically reduce intelligence strikes me as highly dubious.

To be fair, I know little about it. To my knowledge, they don't understand the mechanism for autism anyways, so any 'cure' is silly at this point. Through treatment, I'm sure then can get some sense of management with meds and other treatments, but a cure implies they understand the underlying pathophysiology and can correct it.

This.

Current treatment is coping mechanisms, careful testing of medication to see if it has bad side effects on the people, and basically learning how to live in a Neurotypical world. This stuff is the stuff it's irresponsible not to get, but thankfully no one's ever suggested that. At least no one not currently high as a kite.

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

Backpedal some more Martin; you are the one who said fuck the world those mean neurotypicals should deal with me HOW I AM WOOOO. Frankly that childish attitude comes up way too often when talking to people on the spectrum.

That is why I specified "past a certain age". You change some pathways, but it is soft change. A new face gets put in the proverbial registry, a new memory gets laid down that changes how you react to a certain stimuli given the fundamental architecture. That is what I am getting at. I will also stipulate that my argument does not apply to neurodegenerative conditions like dementia, for the exact same reasons. In a way, they mind-kill the person. That is the harm it does. The person who was there, is no longer there.

The point is, a person's development is a continuous process. It happens gradually over time, and the brain's development regulates itself in such a way that the changes that do take place are not damaging to other processes, memories etc. When I say "fundamental architecture" I mean the portion of who you are that formed due to genetics and natal development. The core of your personality basically.

A medication capable of "curing" autism would have to restructure large areas of the brain at once (lets not even think about how. it is magic). It is discontinuous change. It would rapidly alter many of the structures that determine that core personality. That is the problem.



Exactly. One can treat many of the co-morbid issues like depression through standard medication and therapy. No one here has suggested that people dont do that.




Query:

Do you ever contribute anything worth while at all?

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GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Herpetology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences

There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Query: are you the arbiter of worthwhile?

My experiences dealing with Aspergers are just as valid as yours you elitist prick.

Want some worth? Employments and Adults with Aspergers Syndrome





Oh look she learnt to improve her self so as to get a job. BUT NO THE BIG BAD WORLD BETTER FUCKING CHANGE FOR ME



Work poorly in teams



Elevated risks of depression

Lets just build on the theme of AS fucking you over in the real world

Sure, why not.



Not when you are just being a douche for the sake of being a douche.

Do you have a link to your source? I would love to be able to look at whole quotations and see when the stats were done etc.



Gee, and here I am getting a PhD and have been gainfully employed every year since I was 16, save for my 2nd year of university. You know how? I worked very hard through my adolescent years to function decently, and found ways to help people relate to my personal idiosyncrasies. I also found/built a strong social support network. Some people don't have that, or have a more severe case. For those people, reasonable accommodations can and should be made. It is just like building wheelchair ramps. Sure, a person in a wheelchair may need to work a little harder, but at the same time, it is not unreasonable to build a ramp rather than make them negotiate flights of stairs. This is not a hard concept.



And why on earth would they have that, exactly? Could it be social isolation because people are petty jackasses? I think so.

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GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Herpetology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences

There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.