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 Post subject: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 05:58am
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Its that time of year again, where Australians demonstrate how oh sooooo awesome we are in sport by beating several countries, most of which we can't find on a map. Ok, maybe the UK will beat us this year considering they won more medals than us in the Beijing olympics. But this year's host country India, which according to wiki has spent more than any other commonwealth games in history is facing its own difficulties in setting up the games.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ction=more

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Australia demands answers on Delhi dramas

Updated September 22, 2010 14:32:00

The Federal Government is asking for answers from India and Commonwealth Games officials over security, safety and hygiene concerns in New Delhi.

The Games are on the brink of a full-blown crisis, 11 days out from the opening ceremony.

After a dengue fever outbreak and the shooting of two men on a tourist bus, the collapse of a new footbridge injuring more than 20 people has dealt another blow to organisers.

Team officials have also raised "grave concerns" about hygiene and cleanliness in the athletes village.

Athletes from Australia and the United Kingdom have already pulled out of the Games and more are expected to follow.

Federal Sports Minister Mark Arbib wants answers.

"We are concerned and we are seeking more information from the High Commission and asking them to have discussions with their Indian counterparts," he said.

"The Commonwealth Games Federation has written to the Indian government regarding the village and also regarding preparations for the Games, so obviously we await further information from the federation."

Australia's discus world champion, Dani Samuels, and three top British athletes have pulled out over security and health concerns.

Australian Commonwealth Games Association chief executive Perry Crosswhite says he supports any athlete who withdraws from the Games, but he is concerned they may one day regret their decision.

"We have said all along ... it's a decision of each of the athletes whether they come to the Games or not," he said.

"I think I understand why Dani Samuels decided not to go. She contacted us and told us and we accept that, and [she] probably will not be the last one.

"I'm sure we'll potentially get others that decide for the same reasons."

But Crosswhite says the Games should not be called off.

"We should be thinking about the athletes. If you call a Games off the athletes never get to compete," he said.

Australian swimming coach Michael Bohl says his team is determined to compete in the Commonwealth Games.

He says the swimmers are putting their faith in authorities to keep them safe.

"DFAT has got the latest in terms of intelligence and Swimming Australia, in conjunction with them, are keeping us in the loop as to what's happening over there," he said.

"We depart on Friday to go over to a training camp in Kuala Lumpur and we head into Delhi from there, so until we're told otherwise our focus is very much on the Commonwealth Games at this time."

Lifelong dream

One of Australia's best hopes of a medal in gymnastics at the Commonwealth Games, Lauren Mitchell, says she has no qualms about going to India.

Mitchell says she trusts advice given to her by the Australian Government and the gymnastics federation.

"I've been looking forward to this ever since I was a little girl and competing in it will be kind of like be fulfilling one of my lifelong dreams," she said.

"If the Australian Government says that it's safe, then it's safe.

"I'm going to trust them and I'm going to trust the gymnastics federation and my coaches and my family, and I wouldn't be travelling there if it wasn't safe."

But former Commonwealth Games gold medallist Jane Flemming says she is not sure she would take the risk.

"It would not surprise me if we now see a massive sort of flux of withdrawals, particularly those athletes who are of a very high profile or very successful," she said.

Preparation 'pathetic'

Former Indian athletics champion Ashwini Nachappa says she is extremely embarrassed by the situation.

"It's embarrassing to the entire nation," she said.

"And the readiness and the preparedness is absolutely pathetic.

"As a former athlete, it is so disappointing and embarrassing that a nation of 1 billion cannot hold a Games in time."

Even the Indian media is labelling the Games preparation "a double whammy of embarrassment and humiliation".

But Indian officials are adamant all will be in order in time for the opening ceremony.

The president of the Federation of Indian Associations in Victoria, Vasan Srinivasan, was involved in the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Melbourne.

He says problems will be ironed out in time.

"Manpower is huge in India. They should be able to do anything in a short span of time. People will come together to make things happen," he said.


So far a collapsed roof, a collapsed bridge, explosives allegedly on sale so close to the venue, poor athletes village with allegations of poor hygiene and a shooting which may or may not be terrorist related. Oh yeah, and the Kashmir issue is heating up again. Man, India have got their hands full dealing with this.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 06:14am
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This has been downright embarrassing and infuriating to me. The Indian Olympic Committee is made up of the worst type of people - corrupt AND incompetent. I would love to have some people brought up on criminal charges and jailed for bringing the country into disrepute, but that is never going to happen. Every morning I wake up and find a new headline bringing worse news. All this is worse when I consider the fact that we also do the IPL, and do it well. That involves 8-12 cities, 45 days, teams flying in all directions simultaneously, stadia of 30,000 and greater capacities. This is just ONE location and they have fucked it up unimaginably. :banghead:



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 07:31am
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So who are these organisers, and how did they get selected?



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 07:32am
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The BBC was insinuating that the games may well be called off yesterday, I hope that doesn't happen but it seems that everything that was predicted to happen in South Africa for the World Cup is happening in India with these common-wealth games.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 07:39am
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Zac Naloen wrote:
The BBC was insinuating that the games may well be called off yesterday, I hope that doesn't happen but it seems that everything that was predicted to happen in South Africa for the World Cup is happening in India with these common-wealth games.

All you need is one major country deciding to pull out and the dominos start falling.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 07:44am
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Well to be fair, they have been numerous boycotts by countries in the larger Olympic games, noticeably the US and some of its allies in the 1980 games held by the USSR in protest against the invasion of Afghanistan, and the 1984 boycott of the Los Angeles games by the Eastern Bloc countries in retaliation, and the games still went ahead.

If say some Western nations like the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada pull out, I think India will still compete, and some countries which dislike us would still go ahead. I am not sure how big India's clout is outside of cricket, but thats anything to go by, just because the Anglosphere says jump, the other countries say screw you.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 09:05am
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mr friendly guy wrote:
Well to be fair, they have been numerous boycotts by countries in the larger Olympic games, noticeably the US and some of its allies in the 1980 games held by the USSR in protest against the invasion of Afghanistan, and the 1984 boycott of the Los Angeles games by the Eastern Bloc countries in retaliation, and the games still went ahead.

If say some Western nations like the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada pull out, I think India will still compete, and some countries which dislike us would still go ahead. I am not sure how big India's clout is outside of cricket, but thats anything to go by, just because the Anglosphere says jump, the other countries say screw you.

Can you imagine how embarrassing it'd be if the Queen doesn't turn up to officiate the games? They might as well not call it the "Commonwealth Games".



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 09:22am
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Then India can call it the Anti-Colonialism Games and that'd be cool. On one side, it is a matter of prestige. But on the other, I can't see a realistic reason why expensive game events are taken up by poor nations like India (or poor continents like Africa for that matter). It's just stupid - there are better venues of spending money. Unless, of course, said games bring some tangible benefit to the nation.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 09:35am
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I am with Stas. Calling it anti-colonial games would be hell funny. In any event the "Commonwealth" games is that mainly in name representing the joint history of being once part of the British Empire. I am going to hazard a guess that a lot of these countries don't have the Queen as the head of state anymore and even if we become a republic we aren't going to stop attending because we are sports mad. So bring on the anti-colonial games. :wink: Maybe India can invite non commonwealth countries who sprout anti-colonial rhetoric.

I am going to hazard a guess that part of India's aim is to showcase itself, just like how China did with 2008 Olympics. I read somewhere that India sees their hosting of this event as a comparison to China's actions. I am not sure if Beijing made money, but it clearly generated a patriotic feeling helped by Free Tibet supporters and special thanks to Sarkozy sissy threat to boycott over human rights ( cough Roma cough cough). If that was one of the aims of Beijing then they clearly succeeded, as to what price you put on what is essentially a psychological value, hell if I know. Given how India is doing and reading some online comments, it seems that the organiser are just embarassing India instead.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 09:38am
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Stas Bush wrote:
Then India can call it the Anti-Colonialism Games and that'd be cool. On one side, it is a matter of prestige. But on the other, I can't see a realistic reason why expensive game events are taken up by poor nations like India (or poor continents like Africa for that matter). It's just stupid - there are better venues of spending money. Unless, of course, said games bring some tangible benefit to the nation.


Didn't the World Cup provided an economic stimulus for South Africa? And it's not like the infrastructure build for the World Cup, like better public transport will go to waste.

I would think that building new stadiums would help the growth of spectator sports in SA, unless someone is willingly to correct me on that matter.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 09:42am
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Stas Bush wrote:
Then India can call it the Anti-Colonialism Games and that'd be cool. On one side, it is a matter of prestige. But on the other, I can't see a realistic reason why expensive game events are taken up by poor nations like India (or poor continents like Africa for that matter). It's just stupid - there are better venues of spending money. Unless, of course, said games bring some tangible benefit to the nation.

This is India we are talking about. Stamping on the rights of the poor is something they do on a daily basis.

This indeed was a Games they intended to use to showcase India. India wanted it. Of course, what they have done is made themselves a glorified laughing stock.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 10:59am
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mr friendly guy wrote:
I am with Stas. Calling it anti-colonial games would be hell funny. In any event the "Commonwealth" games is that mainly in name representing the joint history of being once part of the British Empire. I am going to hazard a guess that a lot of these countries don't have the Queen as the head of state anymore and even if we become a republic we aren't going to stop attending because we are sports mad. So bring on the anti-colonial games. :wink: Maybe India can invite non commonwealth countries who sprout anti-colonial rhetoric.


The former name for the Commonwealth Games was the British Empire Games, which describes the origins of the event perfectly. I'm not entirely sure why it still exists to be honest. It just seems like an event staged to allow Australians to pick up gold medals in sports that no-one else cares about :P as well as to let the the English think it has decent sprinters.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 12:58pm
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As an Indian I'll say this is just plain embarrassing. The level of corruption surrounding the games is astounding. The games were awarded back in 2003 and the facilities were supposed to completed by 2008. But delays kept pushing the completion date back until here we are with more delays and evidence of shoddy construction. Kalmadi and the other organisers under him should be investigated for corruption but then again so should a big portion of the Indian government...

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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 01:02pm
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How badly will these series of unfortunate events affect the popularity of the Singh government?



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 03:04pm
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mr friendly guy wrote:
So who are these organisers, and how did they get selected?


This would be the Indian Olympic Association. The head of this bunch of wankers is Suresh Kalmadi, who has been in that post for.... ever, it seems. (just checked wiki, since 1996) He is a lifetime politician, with no skills to boot on the organisational or technical fronts, only knows how to get elected. There is no public accountability. During his reign, the Indian Olympic contingents have won.... one gold (Abhinav Bindra, son of a rich father who realised he wouldn't get help from the govt. and so set up a full modern shooting range on their farm), one silver (RS Rathore - trained by the army) and three bronzes.

PS: Don't go to his wiki, it has been vandalised.

Pelranius wrote:
How badly will these series of unfortunate events affect the popularity of the Singh government?


If they don't take matters into their own hands and fire people and be seen doing things right, this is going to be a nightmare for them even more than the troubles in Kashmir. I am not too fond of the right wingers in Indian politics, but I would love to vote these bums out.

There is precedent, too. A couple of years back the hockey federation was in a mess, with (another) lifetime president in KPS Gill refusing to leave in spite of gross incompetence. The whole body was dissolved and they made a few changes. That's what is needed, as of.... well, years ago.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 04:04pm
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I know that it is also a concern for Canadian athletes as so far two archers are refusing to go.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 04:41pm
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The Age produces the best article on the Commonwealth Games yet.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 05:34pm
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It's a fair point, this is not the biggest event in the world. What annoys me is that we fucked THIS up. Our first big event since the 1980s when we held the Asian Games (not counting two cricket world cups, which admittedly are massive too) and we've made a right arse of it.

And to think the dickhead in charge wanted to bid for the Olympics. :roll: It's a three-year old link, but this one also says "Hosting ths year's Commonwealth Games in New Delhi is a major step towards India bidding for the Olympics, Suresh Kalmadi (pictured) has claimed."

Also, From here:

Quote:
[The CWG] will be better than Melbourne or Manchester. It will beat Beijing


:roll:



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 06:39pm
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You should really track down and watch an Aussie series from the late nineties "The Games" thatbjust made a mockery of the whole games prep and politics involved.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 06:43pm
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ray245 wrote:
Didn't the World Cup provided an economic stimulus for South Africa? And it's not like the infrastructure build for the World Cup, like better public transport will go to waste.
I don't believe it did, no; it certainly wasn't much of one if so. I just finished reading an interesting book called Soccernomics, and one of the topics they discuss is the economics benefits or lack thereof of hosting large sports events like the Olympics, with a special emphasis on the the World Cup. What they found was that there is virtually no economic benefit at all to hosting large events like that. For example, they cited a study of the 2006 World Cup in Germany, which found a total economic benefit of about $2 billion. Sounds like a lot, until you compare this to Germany's $1 trillion economy, and realize that most of the money the Cup generated would have entered the German economy anyway. However, hosting these large events tends to make people happier, which is the real reason these events occur and cities or countries line up to host them.

That being said, Stas is correct according to the writers - they found that if the country is poor enough, like South Africa or large swaths of India, the overall happiness and well being of the population is much better served by raising their incomes, rather than things like big sporting events.

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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-22 10:39pm
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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-23 12:22am
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starslayer wrote:
ray245 wrote:
Didn't the World Cup provided an economic stimulus for South Africa? And it's not like the infrastructure build for the World Cup, like better public transport will go to waste.
I don't believe it did, no; it certainly wasn't much of one if so. I just finished reading an interesting book called Soccernomics, and one of the topics they discuss is the economics benefits or lack thereof of hosting large sports events like the Olympics, with a special emphasis on the the World Cup. What they found was that there is virtually no economic benefit at all to hosting large events like that. For example, they cited a study of the 2006 World Cup in Germany, which found a total economic benefit of about $2 billion. Sounds like a lot, until you compare this to Germany's $1 trillion economy, and realize that most of the money the Cup generated would have entered the German economy anyway. However, hosting these large events tends to make people happier, which is the real reason these events occur and cities or countries line up to host them.


But there are huge difference between a fully developed nation like Germany and a country like South Africa, which is not quite there yet. An economic benefit of $2 Billion would matter much more to South Africa than Germany.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-23 01:07am
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An subcontinental sporting body is corrupt, incompetent and blames everyone else when things go wrong? Get the fuck out of here.

I feel sorry for the Indian taxpayer. Beyond that...the Commonwealth Games are a bit daft but '06 in Melbourne was good fun, albeit slightly bizarre (good idea to have the most spectacular part of the opening ceremony conducted by AFL players who are in no way associated with the Games or indeed any form of international competition). That said for all the 'lol nobody cares' a lot will be riding on it for both Australia and the UK given the run up to London and the Crawford review in Australia last year.



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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-23 02:54am
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I honestly don't give a shit about the Commonwealth Games. The Olympics are a stretch, but at least everyone else rocks up for them, unlike the "everyone who was formerly a British possession bar Ireland and the Arabs, but with the mysterious addition of Mozambique" Games.

There's some fairly stark tension showing up between the white Commonwealth and the rest at the moment - the recent ICC stoush over Howard ended up being a white vs nonwhite vote - and I get the impression that a fair chunk of the drive for that is coming from the subcontinent. It seems that India has a lot tied up in the games going well, and if they don't then the Indians will not take it well. Be interesting to see how it goes.

ray245, there was a report on ABC the other night talking about the impact of the World Cup on SA's economy, and it was basically saying that while it brought in a fair whack of money, hosting the games was a sufficiently costly exercise that it wasn't actually of that much of a benefit, and what surplus they made is being wasted by the essentially unused since new stadiums. Sport in SA is an interesting topic - soccer is very popular over there, but apparently crowd numbers at their professional league are very low, so they can't afford to use the new grounds and continue with the old ones, while the amateur league can't even come close to being able to afford them. Rugby Union is very capable of bringing in sufficient crowds, but all the rugby teams already had their own stadium, and they have no interest in the WC-built ones. It's looking like quite a few of them will have to be torn down, and most of them have already been or are on the path to being mothballed.

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 Post subject: Re: Meanwhile for the commonwealth games PostPosted: 2010-09-23 04:51am
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mr friendly guy wrote:
I am with Stas. Calling it anti-colonial games would be hell funny. In any event the "Commonwealth" games is that mainly in name representing the joint history of being once part of the British Empire. I am going to hazard a guess that a lot of these countries don't have the Queen as the head of state anymore and even if we become a republic we aren't going to stop attending because we are sports mad. So bring on the anti-colonial games. :wink: Maybe India can invite non commonwealth countries who sprout anti-colonial rhetoric.

.


Apparently Prince Charles will be opening the games this time. The Queen is getting him to do more stuff like this as she seems to be 'adjusting' her workload these days, at least with respect to long distance travel.
Oh, only 16 members are monarchies now, iirc.



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