Prison Nation [long] [image heavy]

[Kanastrous]

Look, I'm not pimping some oh it's cruel to imprison someone so let's not lock the dangerous ones up. Hell, under certain conditions I back executing the dangerous ones (separate argument, I know).

You can be honest and pragmatic and acknowledge that there is necessarily some cruelty involved in imprisonment, just by definition of what you're doing. That's not an argument against the practice at all. Just a realistic assessment of its nature.

[eion]

Look, I'm not pimping some oh it's cruel to imprison someone so let's not lock the dangerous ones up. Hell, under certain conditions I back executing the dangerous ones (separate argument, I know).

You can be honest and pragmatic and acknowledge that there is necessarily some cruelty involved in imprisonment, just by definition of what you're doing. That's not an argument against the practice at all. Just a realistic assessment of its nature.

I would argue that necessary confinement is not cruel.

Cruel is pulling out someone's fingernails.

If I have to isolate someone with an infectious disease to treat them and prevent the further spread of the disease, is that cruel?

[Kanastrous]

I would argue that necessary confinement is not cruel.

Well, there's no doubt that some proportion of the prisoners existing under the conditions described by the article are necessarily confined. Some number of those guys really are hardcore killers, rapists, whatever. And it's also true that - based upon the articles at thread's start, anyway - there is a great deal of suffering inherent in the operation of the system. Some of that suffering is just an inevitable feature of locking someone up under harsh control, which is the necessary cruelty. Some of that suffering is not really an inherent feature of locking someone up, and is unnecessary cruelty.

Cruel is pulling out someone's fingernails.

Considering some of the noted effects of subjecting a person to long-term solitary confinement, for example, that's cruel too. If the treatment a prisoner receives inspires him to attempt suicide, that suggests that he is being cruelly treated. But it may be that viable options are lacking, when it comes to safely confining him. So that cruelty may be necessary.

If I have to isolate someone with an infectious disease to treat them and prevent the further spread of the disease, is that cruel?

It depends upon the terms under which you have to do it. If the patient is a loner without kin or friends then his isolation will be a lot less cruel, in terms of inflicting suffering, that if he's a father and son with many people who are desperate to be with him. And it's equally necessary, either way. The necessity of an act doesn't bear on its cruelty.