me wrote:him wrote:Originally Posted by ithinktherefore View Post
What am I missing? Atheists follow a specific philosophical worldview regarding the ultimate nature of the being of reality. Included are beliefs regarding how reality functions, operates, and is described. To rid yourself of the concept of you believing in an entity is to say you have no belief, and thus have no way of describing your outlook or worldview. "Belief" does not have to be an affirmative stance, and having a non-affirmative stance does not negate such stance as being a belief.
figured I'd just throw out some of that criticism.... i could be off
The burden of proof is on the believer of supernatural things, not the non-believer. Atheism is not a belief, it's a natural response to a complete lack of evidence for the supernatural. I get what you're saying, but trying to frame atheism as a belief, even a non-affirmative one... well, just doesn't seem right. I know someone here has a better response to this than I can think of right now. I'm trying to say they aren't in the same ballpark really, not because I want to distance myself from religious belief (I don't really give a fuck) but because they don't seem that way.
It's not a belief in the non-existence of something because that implies the truth is that such a thing exists and those who don't believe have the burden of proof. There. That's what I'm trying to say. We don't have a belief in the non-existence of the tooth fairy, we just know it's something made up to entertain children. If you wanna play semantics, you can call it a belief, but IMO it isn't.him wrote:The point of faith is that it is not certain and makes no affirmative claim. Otherwise, what is the point of using the term faith?
I don't know where this is coming from. I see how you're trying to frame the argument, but almost all faith makes very certain affirmative claims. It's not the same as atheism.
him wrote:I don't believe in the toothfairy. Therefore, I have a belief in the non-existence of God (edit: i mean toothfairy).
Just like atheists don't believe in God.... therefore, atheists believe in the non-existence of God.
him wrote:Believing in the non-existence of somethting does not imply that such a thing exists as Jacques put it. Seems like ya'll talking out your asses. Although I understand that when an athiest says they believe in the non-existence of God that it makes them inferior to intellectuals who have some kind of emotional baggage with the word belief.
I believe 2+2 does not equal 5. Oh wait, I forgot I just implied that 2+2 could equal 5. Whoopsies
him wrote:And also to say the burden of proof is not on that person because they do not implicate the existence of God, or give it a possibility, shows that they are making affirmative claims towards the nature of reality because they are claiming the possibility to be zero. If there is any possbility for a God in the mind of an atheist, no matter how small, they admit that there is a possibility and must find some argument to rule it out - and therefore, having a degree of burden for proof. Just because one argues against a specific claim does not mean that they are making a claimless statement in that argument themselves.
So which is it, beyond semantics? Is atheism a lack of belief, or an affirmative belief in the non-existence of God?