Okay, for reference I've gone through the last few pages and grouped all the posts by Thanas & marsh8472 relating to Thanas' challenge here. No links sorry, but except for the last two entries all the quotes are whole posts from earlier in this thread, and have not been edited in any way, shape, or form.
Thanas wrote:
I would be against any coliseum debate until the guy has shown that he can either provide evidence, argue honestly or concede a point. I do not want Ruben MK3.
So here is my challenge to him before my mind on this will change:
Earlier on he claimed that ST ships ramming an ISD will cause tremendous damage. I now ask him to show that they can do so by calculating the energy such a collision will release against the ISD and prove that this is enough to damage/destroy the ISD.
He conveniently ignored all my points in my reply, so unless he answers that one, what is the use?
Thanas wrote:
I notice Marshmellow here has still not replied to my demands. So we have some rules violations here.
Interesting.
Note: marsh8472 claims he did not see Thanas' post, and now begins to attempt an answer. As we shall see, it is just that: an
attempt.
marsh8472 wrote:
Okay so we know that a borg cube has a mass of 90,000,000 metric tons or 90,000,000,000 kg. Its velocity at full impulse should be around 0.25c or about 75,000,000 meters per second. This gives it a kinetic energy of 0.5*90,000,000,000*75,000,000^2 = 253125000000000000000000000 joules = 60498326960 megatons of kinetic energy. Sure you can spread this force out over the surface area of the hull of the ship but it probably won't help much and since the borg cube has more mass you can bet that the star destroyer will be pushed from this causing at the very least a g-force on the ship that will probably kill everyone.
No figures for ISD shielding or inertial dampeners given. Wrong equation used. Also, do we have proof that the impulse drive doesn't require mass lightening tech to work? Moving on...
Thanas wrote:
You will of course also show how much of that energy actually impacts on the Star Destroyer itself given its shield strength?
You will also demonstrate how it is capable for a warp ship to collide with an object not in warp?
You will also demonstrate how full impulse is 0.25c?
And you will demonstrate when the borg have shown superior or equal speed and maneuverability to an ISD?
YOu will also name the source for the weight of the borg cube?
You will also prove how a Borg cube can withstand over 100 volleys of an ISD, which should be about the number it will receive before it gets even into ramming range (and even that requires the Imps to be fast asleep at the helm)?
marsh8472 wrote:
ok one more hoop
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You will of course also show how much of that energy actually impacts on the Star Destroyer itself given its shield strength?
considering that the millenium falcon was able to fly at one and make contact with its hull i'm not sure I have to. But according to st-vs-sw the star destroyer has absorbed as much as 1e20 joules of energy so it should absorb about 0.00003% of the impact.
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You will also demonstrate how it is capable for a warp ship to collide with an object not in warp?
the same way riker was about to do it. Have your flight path pass through the ship.
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You will also demonstrate how full impulse is 0.25c?
that's the most popular figure I got when I searched. It was actually a conservative one too. I was thinking of using the 0.9c figure.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22full+impulse%22+0.25c&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=7b86eccc3f1b6d5d <-- click
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And you will demonstrate when the borg have shown superior or equal speed and maneuverability to an ISD?
has nothing to do with ramming, we see ships ram star destroyers before and they didn't have time to react fast enough to go to hyperdrive. The borg do have the use of transwarp hubs which allow them to travel across the galaxy in a short period of time, probably faster than the hyperdrive.
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YOu will also name the source for the weight of the borg cube?
http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/ ... hp?brgcube says 90 million tons
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You will also prove how a Borg cube can withstand over 100 volleys of an ISD, which should be about the number it will receive before it gets even into ramming range (and even that requires the Imps to be fast asleep at the helm)?
at 0.25c you really think they'll be able to get that many shots off before the cube slams into them?
They'll do it with adaptive shielding. And...
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SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.
that's how
pretty easy questions
Dodgy figures for ISD shield strength, inability to comprehend that if a ship at warp can ram it must either have mass lightening or it'll blow itself up on the first hydrogen atom it encounters, if only because the deflector dish will be shoved out the back of the ship. Borg cube & impulse speeds I gave you figures for based on Memory Alpha, especially as the DITL mass figure is one of the few unreferenced numbers on the site, and the Google link didn't work. Lack of evidence that an ISD can't scan and / or fire at lightminute ranges, despite evidence to the contrary. Lack of evidence that adaptive shields can block high-energy firepower. Lack of evidence that Shelby's projections were correct.
Thanas wrote:
marsh8472 wrote:
ok one more hoop
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You will of course also show how much of that energy actually impacts on the Star Destroyer itself given its shield strength?
considering that the millenium falcon was able to fly at one and make contact with its hull i'm not sure I have to. But according to st-vs-sw the star destroyer has absorbed as much as 1e20 joules of energy so it should absorb about 0.00003% of the impact.
That is not an answer nor an argument, provide evidence and then argue about it.
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You will also demonstrate how it is capable for a warp ship to collide with an object not in warp?
the same way riker was about to do it. Have your flight path pass through the ship.
Because they will manage to catch up with a moving SW fleet...how?
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You will also demonstrate how full impulse is 0.25c?
that's the most popular figure I got when I searched. It was actually a conservative one too. I was thinking of using the 0.9c figure.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22full+impulse%22+0.25c&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=7b86eccc3f1b6d5d <-- click
Show me the evidence yourself. I have no time nor the inclination to wade through google for you.
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And you will demonstrate when the borg have shown superior or equal speed and maneuverability to an ISD?
has nothing to do with ramming,
Actually, sublight speed etc has everything to do with ramming.
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YOu will also name the source for the weight of the borg cube?
http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/ ... hp?brgcube says 90 million tons
And the evidence for that is....where?
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You will also prove how a Borg cube can withstand over 100 volleys of an ISD, which should be about the number it will receive before it gets even into ramming range (and even that requires the Imps to be fast asleep at the helm)?
at 0.25c you really think they'll be able to get that many shots off before the cube slams into them?
They'll do it with adaptive shielding.
Because you say so?
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SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.
that's how
pretty easy questions
You will now of course show how much firepower a borg cube can absorb?
marsh8472 wrote:
in other words it would take an infinite number of hoops to satisfy you.
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That is not an answer nor an argument, provide evidence and then argue about it.
sure it's an argument. Plus we see asteroids collide with the star destroyers. Asteroids significantly smaller than a borg cube and the asteroids caused significant damage while demonstrating the star destroyers lack of maneuverability to get around them.
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Show me the evidence yourself. I have no time nor the inclination to wade through google for you.
I need no evidence to support canon facts. Just like i have no time to do that right now, got work.
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Actually, sublight speed etc has everything to do with ramming.
asteroids that go slower than 0.25c yet the star destroyer cannot destroy them with their weapons or move thier vessel around them to avoid damage.
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And the evidence for that is....where?
in various other episodes they state the mass of smaller ships to have almost the same mass as this.
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Because you say so?
they won't get 100 shots off because you say so either. You'll need to provide proof of this. You will of course how to prove your claim before I need to prove the counter claim.
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You will now of course show how much firepower a borg cube can absorb?
It varies depending on how much they've adapted. You're just changing the goal post is all. The question was whether ramming would cause damage to the destroyer or not. It's obvious that it will so now you provide defenses for it.
that's enough hoop jumping for now. Your questions don't even relate to this thread.
Failure to show that the ISDs in the Hoth asteroid belt were functioning properly, in spite of (for example) clear evidence of manoeuvrability at Tatooine in ANH. Assertion that evidence purporting to support statements isn't needed so long as statements can be merely stated to be canon. More assumptions on Borg adaptability, followed by declaration that these issues won't be answered any more.
marsh8472 wrote:
Formless wrote:
LordOskuro wrote:
Emphasis mine.
Even if you want to argue alternate universes, we see that the anomoly appears in each universe including the ones where he has the intention of using the pulse before actually using it. It's a causality paradox but still possible. Since the anomoly is created regardless of what universe you're in, it will be created in same universe where you'd want to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy. In fact, it should not only destroy the star wars galaxy but every star wars galaxy in every alternate universe created.
marsh8472 wrote:
Even the low estimates suggest that the borg cube has at least as much mass as the star destroyer. It doesn't matter how much shielding or hull armor a star destroyer has, according to the laws of motion the star destroyer is going to get pushed hard especially if the borg cube rams them at 0.25c. Even if the star destroyer survives this impact, everyone on board will no longer look human and would need to be scraped off the walls. I honestly don't care if it will work or not. It's not related to the discussion.
marsh8472 wrote:
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I think you give this trektard too much credit Serafina, condoms can be pretty tough! As evidenced above this shambling mockery of sentience couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag made of sweet dreams and air.
I fucked your mom last night, she told me this is how she had you. I guess that makes me your father. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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Even if this works
you would still be down a cube unless you want to make a claim that the cube would survive.
More importantly the Executor was hit by THREE not one THREE star destroyers I think that might balance the mass scales a bit more.
I really don't care about that right now though. This particular thread is about destroying star wars with federation technology, not the borg's.
Teleros wrote:
Again, is that a concession to Thanas?
marsh8472 wrote:
of course not. Thanas is a big boy and a moderator. He can take care of himself and doesn't need you to make his cases for him. Let's get back on track now.
Congratulations for proving yourself incapable of debating properly.
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