[VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

A failed experiment whereby board users were invited to advise the Senate, and instead attempted to replace the Senate.

What should we do with the senate (read post first)?

Poll ended at 2009-10-22 10:32pm

Eliminate the Senate - Hotfoot
59
48%
Coliseum winners club - Simplicius
9
7%
24 senators, for 1 year term, HOC elects two a month - Vendetta/Bean
16
13%
30 Senators, new candiates compete against oldest - Tevar/Stuart
13
11%
No new senators except by mod fiat, senators have no responsibilites and cannot be removed - Duchess of Zeon
2
2%
Continue status quo
12
10%
Status quo except that HoC directly votes in 4 senators a year (replacement rate).
1
1%
Make the Senate relevant by giving all Senators mod powers over testing - Duchess of Zeon
2
2%
Revert to old status quo; eliminate HoC, Senators (only) can propose/vote for new members if they want - Havok
3
2%
Eliminate HoC and also eliminate Testing for good measure - Havok/Duchess
6
5%
 
Total votes: 123

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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2009-10-13 05:25pm

I love how this is all complicated. It's like the HoC has become the fucking Senate, only with less standards and more asshatting. That entire list of choices can be boiled down to three choices, 1. Keep the senate as is, 2. shitcan the Senate, 3. hold the senate at current numbers and replace 10-15 senators with an open election once a year/six months/whatever. Instead we get this complicated fucking Choose-Your-Adventure style vote that reminds me of everything that's currently wrong with the Senate.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Captain Seafort » 2009-10-13 07:21pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:1. Keep the senate as is, 2. shitcan the Senate, 3. hold the senate at current numbers and replace 10-15 senators with an open election once a year/six months/whatever.
4. Institute objective admission criteria - i.e. the Coliseum.

Other than that I agree.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by chitoryu12 » 2009-10-13 08:23pm

I voted for 3 as the first and 1 as the second option.

The Senate can have its uses, especially since the majority of the senators are rational and can discuss things without turning it into a shitstorm most of the time (the rest of the board's reaction may be different). If they actually had to try and keep their jobs instead of slipping into unactivity and being kicked out after someone finally noticed the last time a particular senator even posted. Combined with HOC nominations, this would keep the good, active senators on the Senate, get rid of the ones who aren't doing a good job or being inactive, and keep giving the Senate fresh opinions.

If making the Senate more useful can't be achieved, I don't think there's much of a use for it, and the mods/admins should continue doing their jobs banning trolls and dealing with threads while the HOC discuss punishment for misbehavior, policy changes, new mods, and the like. The staff would examine the opinions of the HOC and take suggestions as they see fit.

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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Redleader34 » 2009-10-13 09:57pm

Kill the senate, if not, make the senate a yearly body, 2 a month, to keep freshness. That would get a good bunch of perspective in, and it would fit in with Mr. Wong's plan to have the senate as an advisory party.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by chitoryu12 » 2009-10-13 11:41pm

chitoryu12 wrote:I voted for 3 as the first and 1 as the second option.

The Senate can have its uses, especially since the majority of the senators are rational and can discuss things without turning it into a shitstorm most of the time (the rest of the board's reaction may be different). If they actually had to try and keep their jobs instead of slipping into unactivity and being kicked out after someone finally noticed the last time a particular senator even posted. Combined with HOC nominations, this would keep the good, active senators on the Senate, get rid of the ones who aren't doing a good job or being inactive, and keep giving the Senate fresh opinions.

If making the Senate more useful can't be achieved, I don't think there's much of a use for it, and the mods/admins should continue doing their jobs banning trolls and dealing with threads while the HOC discuss punishment for misbehavior, policy changes, new mods, and the like. The staff would examine the opinions of the HOC and take suggestions as they see fit.
Stupid edit timers. That was meant to read "If they actually had to try and keep their jobs instead of slipping into unactivity and being kicked out after someone finally noticed the last time a particular senator even posted, and this was combined with HOC nominations, this would......"

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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Sarevok » 2009-10-14 12:26pm

I am with white haven. We do not have to tell moderators and admins how to do their job. They are perfectly capable of running the board without outside interference.This is a discussion board not a cooperative chicken farm or the friggin united nations. Rest of of web does fine without subcomitees on selection of comitees to review proposals to post something.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by General Zod » 2009-10-14 12:48pm

Sarevok wrote:I am with white haven. We do not have to tell moderators and admins how to do their job. They are perfectly capable of running the board without outside interference.This is a discussion board not a cooperative chicken farm or the friggin united nations. Rest of of web does fine without subcomitees on selection of comitees to review proposals to post something.
It's not like they actually have to listen to us. They could just as easily clamp down on these types of discussion threads if they really wanted to, but at least some mods seem to be in favor of the idea of changing things around a bit.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by White Haven » 2009-10-14 01:31pm

Please don't misrepresent me. I'm against the Senate and the HoC not because I don't think board policy and moderator actions should be immune to discussion, but because discussion regarding them doesn't need to be relegated to either a specific group of people or a specific place.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by aerius » 2009-10-14 01:49pm

Captain Seafort wrote:4. Institute objective admission criteria - i.e. the Coliseum.

Other than that I agree.
Actually we should do that in reverse, the Senators should fight it out in the Coliseum and the winners get to stay in the Senate. It's not like they're doing much these days so they might as well entertain us.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Thanas » 2009-10-14 01:52pm

I'd be up for that if we do the same with all of the plebs. The loosers get permabanned.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by J » 2009-10-14 01:58pm

Thanas wrote:I'd be up for that if we do the same with all of the plebs. The loosers get permabanned.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Thanas » 2009-10-14 02:10pm

Sorry, the stupidity of this thread drives me to drink.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Havok » 2009-10-14 02:17pm

I kinda thought everyone would get that with my HoC idea. Guess not. :lol:
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by LadyTevar » 2009-10-14 08:12pm

Voted for my own option, of course. :angelic:

Someone asked me if I'd be willing to step down from the Senate to help shrink its numbers.

Yes. Yes I will step down, and not this "Senator Emeritus" thing where I could come back anytime I want and start threads, drama, and foolish votes over molehills. I would be perfectly capable of stepping away and letting a younger member take my place, if that is what is decided.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by RedImperator » 2009-10-15 12:39am

White Haven wrote:Please don't misrepresent me. I'm against the Senate and the HoC not because I don't think board policy and moderator actions should be immune to discussion, but because discussion regarding them doesn't need to be relegated to either a specific group of people or a specific place.
The reason you want to have a specific area is twofold: first, for the mods, it makes it easier to actually mod the rest of the board without worrying about every decision turning into a debate, and second, for everyone else, it creates a designated "safe zone" where people can feel free to be critical and not worry about being punished for "flaming" mods for doing their jobs. It's also convenient for everybody to have one or two forums which act as a clearinghouse for suggestions, ideas, and complaints, rather than hunting through the entire board.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Questor » 2009-10-15 01:28am

RedImperator wrote:The reason you want to have a specific area is twofold: first, for the mods, it makes it easier to actually mod the rest of the board without worrying about every decision turning into a debate, and second, for everyone else, it creates a designated "safe zone" where people can feel free to be critical and not worry about being punished for "flaming" mods for doing their jobs. It's also convenient for everybody to have one or two forums which act as a clearinghouse for suggestions, ideas, and complaints, rather than hunting through the entire board.
I agree with everything you've said here, and your last sentence brought up a thought for me. Maybe the board software problems thread should be moved to the HoC, as it seems (to me) as it would fit more here.

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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by White Haven » 2009-10-15 09:36am

RedImperator wrote:
White Haven wrote:Please don't misrepresent me. I'm against the Senate and the HoC not because I don't think board policy and moderator actions should be immune to discussion, but because discussion regarding them doesn't need to be relegated to either a specific group of people or a specific place.
The reason you want to have a specific area is twofold: first, for the mods, it makes it easier to actually mod the rest of the board without worrying about every decision turning into a debate, and second, for everyone else, it creates a designated "safe zone" where people can feel free to be critical and not worry about being punished for "flaming" mods for doing their jobs. It's also convenient for everybody to have one or two forums which act as a clearinghouse for suggestions, ideas, and complaints, rather than hunting through the entire board.
Those are valid points, and as such I find myself withdrawing my 'Kill the HoC' position. At the same time, however, I think it would be an improvement to tell people ''Take it too the HoC if it bothers you,' as opposed to 'you can't discuss that, shush.' Maybe it's just semantics now that the HoC exists, but something about gag-rules bothers me.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Sarevok » 2009-10-15 12:08pm

RedImperator wrote:The reason you want to have a specific area is twofold: first, for the mods, it makes it easier to actually mod the rest of the board without worrying about every decision turning into a debate, and second, for everyone else, it creates a designated "safe zone" where people can feel free to be critical and not worry about being punished for "flaming" mods for doing their jobs. It's also convenient for everybody to have one or two forums which act as a clearinghouse for suggestions, ideas, and complaints, rather than hunting through the entire board.
Well that does make sense. The problem is that the board has got too much self centered. Instead of discussing topics the board was founded on we are too focused on administrative minutae. Are ordinary posters here not to discuss science fiction, real science and technology, some religon or morality etc along with a blend of offtopic chat and humor thrown in ? It does not make sense to join a web forum to discuss how the web forum should ideally be run. Personally I think sdns senate / hall of common system is quite interesting and should remain in place. But members need to stop revolving around in-forum drama so much. Afterall excess of anything is bad.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Havok » 2009-10-15 01:22pm

You are assuming that because some people are doing one, they are not doing the other.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Big Phil » 2009-10-15 07:41pm

Sarevok wrote:
RedImperator wrote:The reason you want to have a specific area is twofold: first, for the mods, it makes it easier to actually mod the rest of the board without worrying about every decision turning into a debate, and second, for everyone else, it creates a designated "safe zone" where people can feel free to be critical and not worry about being punished for "flaming" mods for doing their jobs. It's also convenient for everybody to have one or two forums which act as a clearinghouse for suggestions, ideas, and complaints, rather than hunting through the entire board.
Well that does make sense. The problem is that the board has got too much self centered. Instead of discussing topics the board was founded on we are too focused on administrative minutae. Are ordinary posters here not to discuss science fiction, real science and technology, some religon or morality etc along with a blend of offtopic chat and humor thrown in ? It does not make sense to join a web forum to discuss how the web forum should ideally be run. Personally I think sdns senate / hall of common system is quite interesting and should remain in place. But members need to stop revolving around in-forum drama so much. Afterall excess of anything is bad.
I'm not aware of other boards with officially appointed groups who are actually deluded enough to think they're actually "elite." To be fair, I don't spend much time on other boards, so perhaps this phenomenon is common, but it still seems like pathetic high school lack of self-esteem that such a group even exists.

I wasn't here in the early days - what was the drama in 2002, 2003, and 2004? I assume it centered more around Darkstar and similar types making dumbass arguments about Star Trek and Star Wars.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by General Zod » 2009-10-15 07:45pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
I wasn't here in the early days - what was the drama in 2002, 2003, and 2004? I assume it centered more around Darkstar and similar types making dumbass arguments about Star Trek and Star Wars.
That and the occasional Trollkingdom tard, pretty much.
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Coyote » 2009-10-16 01:19pm

Don't forget Elite Fitness!

This is what happens when debates run their course on the stated mission of SW vs. ST. With no real arguments going on, we all turn to.... CANNIBALISM!

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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by General Zod » 2009-10-16 01:24pm

Coyote wrote:Don't forget Elite Fitness!
Bah, I wasn't around for Elite Fitness. :P
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Big Phil » 2009-10-16 02:39pm

Coyote wrote:Don't forget Elite Fitness!

This is what happens when debates run their course on the stated mission of SW vs. ST. With no real arguments going on, we all turn to.... CANNIBALISM!
Well, like the discussion in the bannination thread, part of that is due to a lack of new blood. When all you have is the same people who've been here for years talking about the same shit over and over and over again, it becomes pointless. I'm a little tired of constantly arguing with Flagg, or Mr. Coffee, or Havok, or Surlethe, or RedImperator, or Axis Kast, or Darth Wong every single fucking time I'm in a thread. I pretty much know what these fuckers are all going to say, and they probably know what I'm going to say - it gets old.

Let's face it; we're all a bunch of grumpy fuckers and if we want this board "revitalized" it would be in our best interest to not think our shit don't stink, let new people in, and not treat them like chew toys when they do join. As far as the Senate goes, as long as you folks collectively continue to wear that title as a badge of honor as if it actually means something, I'm going to continue to enjoy the entertainment and ridicule the shit out of you :wink:
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Re: [VOTE] Options for Senate, popularity of

Post by Havok » 2009-10-16 02:47pm

This board could definitely use a dose of new blood. Open reg doesn't seem to be that much of a hassle.
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