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 Post subject: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 10:57am
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Now I'm caught in a debate that requires some information.
I need to know turbolaser weapons range for Imperial capital ships. Is it in low 100,000 kilometers, light seconds or even light minutes?

How fast can SW ships accelerate and how fast can they go in sublight speeds?



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 12:12pm
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Turbolaser range in the NJO books was demonstrated to be great enough to permit planetary bombardment from the far orbits of the Coruscant system-definitely multi light minute range, maybe light hour. Effective combat range is limited by target prediction and the durability of the target.

Sublight speed is limited only by endurance and acceleration, and acceleration for ships like ISDs is minimilistically 1000 gs based on Curtis Saxon's old work. To quote Mike on count Dooku's ship...
Mike Wong wrote:
How long could Amidala have been expected to stand on the platform staring at Dooku's wake before running inside to check on Anakin and Obi-Wan? She was obviously not in a leisurely mood; she ran into the hangar looking for Anakin! And how long could Yoda have been expected to stand there, frozen in place, before picking up his cane? Frankly, anything more than 10 or 20 seconds is grossly unrealistic. This means that Dooku's ship had to cover 10,000 km in 10 to 20 seconds, which requires constant acceleration between 5,000 and 20,000 G.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 01:49pm
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Dark Primus wrote:
Now I'm caught in a debate that requires some information.
I need to know turbolaser weapons range for Imperial capital ships. Is it in low 100,000 kilometers, light seconds or even light minutes?


Star Wars: Complete Cross-Sections, p. 75, wrote:
HEAVY-DUTY FIREPOWER
A Venator-class Star Destroyer's eight DBY-827 heavy turbolaser turrets are the standard requirement in naval gunnery for intense inter-ship combat and planetary bombardment. The DBY-827's precise, long-range tracking mode enables it to hit a target vessel at distances of over ten light-minutes, while the turret can rotate in three seconds in its close-fighting, fast-tracking mode.


Quote:
How fast can SW ships accelerate and how fast can they go in sublight speeds?


For the same ship:

Star Wars: Complete Cross-Sections, p. 74, wrote:
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 3,000G



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 02:19pm
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What about Darth Vader's ISD having practically run over Leia's Corellian Blockade Runner before it finally disabled it? The relative velocities before the main reactor got knocked out wasn't that big a difference. The opening distance on that couldn't have been that open unless they'd been chasing each other all over space for practically forever.

Then at Hoth where they waited until they could see the Walkers through magnified optics before they actually opened fire.

Doctrinally they don't seem to favor that long of range.

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 02:30pm
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Heavy jamming may render such ranges useless against anything other than a static target.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 02:31pm
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FOG3 wrote:

Then at Hoth where they waited until they could see the Walkers through magnified optics before they actually opened fire.

Doctrinally they don't seem to favor that long of range.


You know, that was on a planet - at some point (about 5km, IIRC) the planet will get in the way with LOS-weapons.


Quote:
Heavy jamming may render such ranges useless against anything other than a static target.

Heavy jamming is canonic in SW.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 03:21pm
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FOG3 wrote:
What about Darth Vader's ISD having practically run over Leia's Corellian Blockade Runner before it finally disabled it? The relative velocities before the main reactor got knocked out wasn't that big a difference. The opening distance on that couldn't have been that open unless they'd been chasing each other all over space for practically forever.

Doctrinally they don't seem to favor that long of range.



Vader's ISD (Devestator?) was using light weapons, possibly even point-defense weapons, to try to hit a precise target on a ship that Vader wanted disabled, not destroyed. If Devestator was shooting to kill I doubt it would have had to get so close.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 04:06pm
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Serafina wrote:
You know, that was on a planet - at some point (about 5km, IIRC) the planet will get in the way with LOS-weapons.


It (obviously) depends on the height of the observer, and in fact going by the main site if Hoth had been a perfect sphere the AT-AT would still have been over the horizon (about 15km) from the generators when it opened fire.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 04:09pm
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The shield generator/reactor was way behind the rebel lines.
Which means that the AT-ATs and rebels could have opened fire on each other way before the generator was in LOS of the AT-ATs.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 04:16pm
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Serafina wrote:
The shield generator/reactor was way behind the rebel lines.
Which means that the AT-ATs and rebels could have opened fire on each other way before the generator was in LOS of the AT-ATs.


I think you misunderstood - I was talking about when the AT-AT opened fire on the generators themselves. The solution Mike offers is a geological feature (the north ridge) that the AT-AT's were stated to be attacking across. My intention was to reinforce your point that operations on planets are severely limited by physical factors to a much greater degree than space operations.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 04:20pm
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Ah, ok - yes, i misunderstood you. Sorry for that.



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"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-17 04:32pm
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I doesn't take heavy jamming to make lightminute ranges impractical in combat. You think a mobile target is going to sit still for the minutes it takes the TL bolt to actually REACH them?
As for Hoth, as pointed out, that's on a planet. Terrain and eventually the planet itself getting in the way of LOS.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 01:21am
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This wouldn't have anything to do with that abortion of a 40K vs SW debate on Spacebattles, would it?



ImageNew Archive of my 40K analysis stuff, over on SB, including the stuff I've posted there as well as my stuff here.

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 04:57am
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Connor MacLeod wrote:
This wouldn't have anything to do with that abortion of a 40K vs SW debate on Spacebattles, would it?


Wait - what side was he on?

Because, frankly, SW-side is way easier to argue for. Even if they had only ranges of dozen of kilometers, they would propably still win.



SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 08:18am
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Jesus Christ, I can't believe no one has jumped Mith's shit yet.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 08:20am
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Can I get a link?



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 08:40am
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Dark Primus wrote:
Now I'm caught in a debate that requires some information.
I need to know turbolaser weapons range for Imperial capital ships. Is it in low 100,000 kilometers, light seconds or even light minutes?

How fast can SW ships accelerate and how fast can they go in sublight speeds?


Seriously dude, don't bother trying to debate with some of those 40K nutters on SB.

Most of them are okay, but a few of them just scream and shout so loud, they drown everyone out with their wall of ignorance stupidity and generally devolve every thread into useless flame wars as they jerk off in the darkness of night to images of Imperial Battleships blasting ISD's into scrap...



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 09:14am
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Thanas wrote:
Can I get a link?

Eight pages of Jeanstealer wankery & arguments that are clearly not thought out.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-18 11:06am
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This Inquisitor Ryan guy has all the hallmarks of being a troll.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-20 04:17am
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Man, trying to read that thread makes me so glad I don't read Sb.com anymore.



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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-20 04:26am
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Question on Holonet v Shields- the people over at SB seem to treat the idea as shields on = Holonet off, period, yet the times when holonet has been used and shields were up were actually shortrange- relatively speaking- broadcasts, or close to a relay, yes? And the Hoth asteroid belt is in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, so wouldn't the sane explanation be that in order to get enough signal to connect to a relay, the shields had to be down to reach the relay from where they were so as to be able to contact Palipatine? In other words, that Shields don't magically stop transmissions, they just degrade the quality to the point of uselessness over any long distance.

Or were the shields down for their ship to ship holocommunications as well?

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-20 05:28am
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^Hmmm. That is an interesting question. But you don't really need full-fledged holonet for battle direction anyway. Thrawn made due with a holomap and standard communication.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-20 10:34am
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Thanas wrote:
^Hmmm. That is an interesting question. But you don't really need full-fledged holonet for battle direction anyway. Thrawn made due with a holomap and standard communication.

Don't forget about incompetence, lots and lots of weapons grade New Republic incompetence.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-09-20 10:36am
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General Schatten wrote:
Thanas wrote:
^Hmmm. That is an interesting question. But you don't really need full-fledged holonet for battle direction anyway. Thrawn made due with a holomap and standard communication.

Don't forget about incompetence, lots and lots of weapons grade New Republic incompetence.


Which has what to do with communications, pray tell?



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: I have a few questions on SW tech PostPosted: 2009-10-01 09:58pm
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Ryushikaze wrote:
Question on Holonet v Shields- the people over at SB seem to treat the idea as shields on = Holonet off, period, yet the times when holonet has been used and shields were up were actually shortrange- relatively speaking- broadcasts, or close to a relay, yes? And the Hoth asteroid belt is in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, so wouldn't the sane explanation be that in order to get enough signal to connect to a relay, the shields had to be down to reach the relay from where they were so as to be able to contact Palipatine? In other words, that Shields don't magically stop transmissions, they just degrade the quality to the point of uselessness over any long distance.

Or were the shields down for their ship to ship holocommunications as well?
VADER: Move us out of the asteroid field, so that we can send a clear transmission.

Certainly doesn't imply they couldn't do it in the asteroid field where shields down was bad mojo, just Vader wanted a clear transmission when talking to Palpatine. :) I suspect that might have to do more with the analysis when Vader is conferencing and one of the bridge towers gets nailed.

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